If Hell never existed. . . . .

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN · Jun 6, 2009

Washington said:
If Hell never existed---everyone ends up in Heaven---would it change your behavior in any way? Does the threat of Hell keep you from being a baddie?

Be honest now.

Nope.I'm guessing even good people may go to hell.

Polycarp_fan · Jun 6, 2009

Washington said:
If Hell never existed---everyone ends up in Heaven---would it change your behavior in any way? Does the threat of Hell keep you from being a baddie?

Be honest now.

If there were no hell, there'd be prisons in heaven too.

KCKID · Jun 6, 2009

Polycarp_fan said:
If there were no hell, there'd be prisons in heaven too.

Like every other person on this planet I don't know precisely what happens to someone when they die. What logic and reason dictate to me, however, is that a hell of eternal suffering can be in no way literal.

So, hell doesn't exist except for those who WANT it to exist.

Polycarp_fan · Jun 6, 2009

KCKID said:
Like every other person on this planet I don't know precisely what happens to someone when they die. What logic and reason dictate to me, however, is that a hell of eternal suffering can be in no way literal.

So, hell doesn't exist except for those who WANT it to exist.

Then let me help you understand things "eternal."

Once there is no time, then there is only now. Eternity being no longer a concept of worth. It just is. If a person is seperated from God in eternity, or forever now, then they are forever in hell.

And why disagree with Jesus KID? He taught hell was reality. What right do you have to accuse Jesus of misleading people?

Wiccan_Child · Jun 6, 2009

Polycarp_fan said:
Then let me help you understand things "eternal."

Once there is no time, then there is only now. Eternity being no longer a concept of worth. It just is. If a person is seperated from God in eternity, or forever now, then they are forever in hell.

And why disagree with Jesus KID? He taught hell was reality. What right do you have to accuse Jesus of misleading people?

Presumably, the same right you have to accuse people of disagreeing with Jesus. Because everyone knows there's only one true flavour of Christianity, and all others are heretical...

KCKID · Jun 6, 2009

Polycarp_fan said:
Then let me help you understand things "eternal."

Once there is no time, then there is only now. Eternity being no longer a concept of worth. It just is. If a person is seperated from God in eternity, or forever now, then they are forever in hell.

And why disagree with Jesus KID? He taught hell was reality. What right do you have to accuse Jesus of misleading people?

You misunderstand the words of Jesus. You're obviously a literalist and so you wouldn't understand that the words of Jesus equating hell to the fires of Gehenna (the garbage dump) were figurative. Besides, hell or hades is the grave, not some place of literal eternal torment.

Polycarp_fan · Jun 6, 2009

Wiccan_Child said:
Presumably, the same right you have to accuse people of disagreeing with Jesus. Because everyone knows there's only one true flavour of Christianity, and all others are heretical...

You left off: . . . per Jesus.

Polycarp_fan · Jun 6, 2009

KCKID said:
You misunderstand the words of Jesus.

These words?

Luke 16:24 cries: ". . .I am tormented in this FLAME."

Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting FIRE,. . ."

Revelation 20:15 says, " And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the LAKE OF FIRE."

You're obviously a literalist and so you wouldn't understand that the words of Jesus equating hell to the fires of Gehenna (the garbage dump) were figurative.

The garbage dump OUTSIDE of Jerusalem? Where garbage went to rot away from people? And, aren't YOU being a literalist? The shoe fits.

Besides, hell or hades is the grave, not some place of literal eternal torment.

You're being too literal. Obviously Jesus meant something altogether different and eternally bad.

tanzanos · Jun 7, 2009

Polycarp_fan said:
Then let me help you understand things "eternal."

Once there is no time, then there is only now. Eternity being no longer a concept of worth. It just is. If a person is seperated from God in eternity, or forever now, then they are forever in hell.

And why disagree with Jesus KID? He taught hell was reality. What right do you have to accuse Jesus of misleading people?

It is the act of immorality, that which instils the fear of hell on the ignorant and on children!

Jane_the_Bane · Jun 7, 2009

Personally, I interpret Jesus's allegorical images of hell more in the sense of Buddhist philosophy:
We live in hells of our own creation. Psychologically speaking, we carry our guilt with us. A killer who callously murders others already is in hell. If his humanity has faded to the point where he's not even haunted by his deeds any longer, can you say that he has a serene existence?

I think the sermon of the mount pretty much substantiates that point: it's a renunciation of legalist morality, of carrot-and-stick adherence to the law. Jesus encouraged his audience to nourish their "internal policeman", to nip immorality in the bud rather than just suppressing its symptoms.

A self-actualized person capable of agape-love has pretty much "hit the jackpot". Reaching that point is its own reward; nothing further is necessary.
And that, I think, is what Shane Roach has failed to grasp so far.

Robbie_James_Francis · Jun 7, 2009

If heaven is as it is presented by the Judeo-Christian tradition and I knew I'd go there, then yes, I would radically alter my behaviour. I'd be more careful crossing the street, go to the gym, get my five a day and stop smoking, drinking and taking drugs.

I know the OP was referring to morality, but this is the only way I can imagine my behaviour changing in the situation given. I find the suggestion that people would alter their behaviour based on rewards and punishments worrying, and if it were directed at myself, offensive.

Dream3wb723 · Jun 7, 2009

b&wpac4 said:
There are people who do good things and avoid bad things that belong to faiths without a Hell concept, so I doubt the concept of Hell plays much into it.

Doing good deeds does not bring you in heaven.
Accepting God as your true saviour and Father will bring you to God/Heaven.

Dream3wb723 · Jun 7, 2009

The Nihilist said:
Ok, here is how I read the question: If you learned that when you died, you went to heaven no matter what, would you do something different from what you're doing now? Stop me if I've read this wrong, but yeah, I'd off myself immediately. As I understand it, heaven is rad, so there's no sense in waiting.

Been alive is the greatest gift God could give us. Been a Christian/part of God's famaly is to live the Gospel: tell about God, live God, praise God ex. we as a Gods children should show the world what and who it is serving the Lord. All with divr. atributes and weaknesses, over comming that what the world has to offer and and live for that what God has to offer.

Dream3wb723 · Jun 7, 2009

Bampot said:
Ha, the local Baptist church I grew up in would be screwed. They preached the threat of hell every Sunday morning. No matter what the topic of the week, it always ended in us being hellbent sinners. I know a good few there who would throw out there morals in a heartbeat at the possibility of no divine punishment in the afterlife.

Personally, I don't believe in hell.

Then Tell me, in What do you believe?

Dream3wb723 · Jun 7, 2009

KCKID said:
Like every other person on this planet I don't know precisely what happens to someone when they die. What logic and reason dictate to me, however, is that a hell of eternal suffering can be in no way literal.

So, hell doesn't exist except for those who WANT it to exist.

Even the Pope can tell you hell exist. Even the devel himself.
(I think he knows it best.Lol)
The question still remains: If hell never existed...

KCKID · Jun 7, 2009

KCKID said:
Like every other person on this planet I don't know precisely what happens to someone when they die. What logic and reason dictate to me, however, is that a hell of eternal suffering can be in no way literal.

KCKID said:
So, hell doesn't exist except for those who WANT it to exist.

Dream3wb723 said:
Even the Pope can tell you hell exist. Even the devel himself.
(I think he knows it best.Lol)
The question still remains: If hell never existed...

Well, you obviously have no idea what I'm talking about. So ...as long as we are discussing hell then we need to define what hell is. Do you believe hell to be a place of literal eternal torment? Most Christians, apparently, believe that it is. I don't. Not at all. In the Bible hell is merely a name for the grave and nothing more than that. To believe that hell is more than that is to read more into it than the Bible tells us.

Those that believe hell to be some heinous torture camp for the lost are those that are obviously quite okay with the idea that such a place exists. They can't even work it out in their minds that a God that would allow such a place to exist could NOT be a loving God. It becomes a mental block that reason cannot shake. And ...many Christians, sad to say, are SO 'insensed' that others don't believe what THEY believe that they also believe that such people deserve a literal hell for their unbelief. They accept - even relish - the idea that unbelievers be punished. Do you understand better now?

The question asked of the OP cannot be answered effectively as long as people believe that hell is anything other than the grave.

b&wpac4 · Jun 7, 2009

Dream3wb723 said:
Doing good deeds does not bring you in heaven.
Accepting God as your true saviour and Father will bring you to God/Heaven.

Please highlight the portion of my post where I said "Doing good deeds brings you to heaven" or anything similar to that.

KCKID · Jun 7, 2009

b&wpac4 said:
There are people who do good things and avoid bad things that belong to faiths without a Hell concept, so I doubt the concept of Hell plays much into it.

Dream3wb723 said:
Doing good deeds does not bring you in heaven.
Accepting God as your true saviour and Father will bring you to God/Heaven.

While that is not what b&wpac4 said it should be pointed out that 'good deeds' are the result of 'faith' and 'acceptance' of the Savior. So, it could be argued that lack of good deeds indicates lack of faith. And, lack of faith means . . .

The last I heard is that faith without (good) works is dead. So, what's it to be?

Gee, Christianity is so confusing . . .

Infernalfist · Jun 7, 2009

i almost believe that if there wasn't an idea of hell or the devil by that matter, people would be more inclined to do good. the idea of hell gives people something to fear, and i know that most would argue that people need that fear to steer them toward good. the problem with that is that in the case of driving, if you see something that grabs your attention on the side of the road, be it good or bad, most find themselves steering toward it when they focus on it too much. i believe the concept of hell creates a fear that people become so consumed with, the idea of escaping it, that they end up walking toward the ideas they say will take them there. People will alienate, give dirty looks to, and in some extremes get seriously violent toward anyone who they think might be influence by the ideas that will take you to hell.

white dove · Jun 8, 2009

Infernalfist said:
i almost believe that if there wasn't an idea of hell or the devil by that matter, people would be more inclined to do good. the idea of hell gives people something to fear, and i know that most would argue that people need that fear to steer them toward good. the problem with that is that in the case of driving, if you see something that grabs your attention on the side of the road, be it good or bad, most find themselves steering toward it when they focus on it too much. i believe the concept of hell creates a fear that people become so consumed with, the idea of escaping it, that they end up walking toward the ideas they say will take them there. People will alienate, give dirty looks to, and in some extremes get seriously violent toward anyone who they think might be influence by the ideas that will take you to hell.

Interesting.. your initial thoughts are quite stirring.

I don't know how every single Christian believes, so as I can only speak for myself, I will say this:

To me, the concept of hell is not so much about eternal torment in flames so much as it has to do with being eternally separated from God. This concept is important to me.. yet, it has little to nothing to do with my everyday thoughts and actions. As a Christian, we do things in love for God. Perfect love drives out fear and that is what the Bible teaches. A brother or sister in Christ need not fear at all. I think, if someone focuses too much on the concept of hell as sort of an encouragement to continue the "path," to me, that sounds very [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]-eyed. Much of what is written in the Bible points toward an inward process that flows outward - one of love, understanding, wisdom, patience, forgiveness, repentance... things of that nature. To focus on the wrong thing can create unpleasant effects, so I can see why you made the conclusion you did. However, it is unfair to judge all people according to the more negative examples you may be thinking of. Extremists do not speak for an entire group of people. They are most-often a counterculture in their own right.

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If Hell never existed. . . . .

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