If hell is the punishment and Jesus paid for it

[holo]

then Jesus must be in hell right now and never get out. Or am I missing something?

 

[Starcomet]

According to tradition, Jesus only went into hell to set the souls of the prophets and patriarch free before leaving to heaven with them. He "paid" for the sins of the world, but was not condemned by them.

 

[Dave-W]

then Jesus must be in hell right now and never get out. Or am I missing something?

You are missing the fact that hell is in eternity, not time, and “right now” at any point of time is meaningless in eternity.

 

[HTacianas]

then Jesus must be in hell right now and never get out. Or am I missing something?

Jesus never accepted the punishment for our sins in an eternal sense, but our sins were placed on him to allow us the chance to escape punishment for our previous sins.

 

[bling]

Jesus was not paying God off so God could forgive us, God forgave our transgressions.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Who created hell and decreed punishment therein?

 

[holo]

Jesus never accepted the punishment for our sins in an eternal sense, but our sins were placed on him to allow us the chance to escape punishment for our previous sins.

So eternal life in hell isn't the punishment, just an unfortunate consequence of dying in your sins?

 

[com7fy8]

then Jesus must be in hell right now and never get out. Or am I missing something?

There are different ideas about this.

There are people who believe and insist that Jesus went to hell and suffered there all which we would suffer in hell, so we do not so suffer.

Others insist that Jesus suffered all the wrath of God, on the cross, for our sins.

But on the cross Jesus said it was "finished". So, to me this means Jesus did enough, right on the cross.

And we have Ephesians 5:2 >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

So, Jesus on the cross was sweetly pleasing our Father; this to me means He was not subject to any wrath of God. He was so pleasing that our Father accepted His sacrifice for us. And we are told to also be sweet-smelling to God while doing our sacrifices.

So, what Jesus did on the cross is our example, and we are not commanded to live under God's wrath and suffer torment.

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)

So eternal life in hell isn't the punishment, just an unfortunate consequence of dying in your sins?

I think you can not suffer in the fire, unless you have the selfish nature which can get burnt about not getting its own way.

So, in sin people already have the main active ingredient which will be in hell, making them able to so suffer. And ones already, then, are in various torments because of the weakness of their selfish nature.

To be more direct with your questions >

Hell is a punishment.

Hell is a consequence.

Hell is not fair; it involves so much more suffering than people's deeds in this life deserve. Ones have not caused others the amount of suffering which they later could suffer in hell. But we are warned not to go there.

And Galatians 6:7-8 says we will reap whatever we have been sowing. If we have sown what is truly good, we will reap so much more than those little seed deeds which we have sown. Meanwhile, ones who have sown evil seeds will reap so much more evil than their little seeds they have sown. So, it is not fair, either way > how ones sowing well will get so much more than we deserve, while others will get so much more horribleness.

So, what are you going to do? Either way won't be fair. But if you trust in Christ and get into the kind of loving He will bless . . . correct . . . you to live in, you will gain so much more and better than any of us deserve.

The thing is, that there will be so much more after we are in resurrection bodies, more of good or more of horrible. So, suicide is not a good idea, then, by the way, since it can bring someone to a major multiplication of whatever tormented that person into killing oneself.

But Jesus who is almighty can give you "rest for your souls." (Matthew 11:28-30) This rest is almighty against all sorts of torments, plus we are sharing in how Jesus makes us pleasing to our Heavenly Father and loving any and all people.

 

[HTacianas]

So eternal life in hell isn't the punishment, just an unfortunate consequence of dying in your sins?

Or maybe both.

 

[mmksparbud]

then Jesus must be in hell right now and never get out. Or am I missing something?

That would apply if there was such a thing as the wages of sin is eternal punishment in hell---however---the wages of sin is death. Nowhere in the bible does it say that the wages of sin is eternal punishment in hell. When Adam and Eve were told to not eat of the tree they were told if they did, they would die--not that they would burn forever. In short---Jesus paid the price for sin--death. There is no eternally burning hellfire. There are, sadly, many who do believe there is.

 

[mindlight]

then Jesus must be in hell right now and never get out. Or am I missing something?

Redemption is from sin, the wages of sin is death. But Jesus was sinless on his death. A place designed to keep dead sinners in holding or captivity cannot hold a person who does have any sins. So Hades cannot hold a man who did not deserve to die. Jesus did not go to the fiery place Gehenna as far I can see in the bible. But the devil and his angels and any whose names are not written in the book of life will be sent there.

 

[Tree of Life]

then Jesus must be in hell right now and never get out. Or am I missing something?

The blood of Jesus is the blood of God. It is therefore infinitely valuable and able to redeem a multitude of sinners from an infinite punishment.

 

[holo]

I can appreciate the argument that eternal existence in hell isn't God's punishment but rather where you'll sort of have to go if you don't go to heaven. But that seems to go against the idea of being paid or punished according to one's actions.

 

[Hawkins]

then Jesus must be in hell right now and never get out. Or am I missing something?

The analogy is more like a nest of bees is to be destroyed because they attacked humans. The nest of bees will be burnt to death. However your state laws allow the nest of bees to be saved if an innocent human is willing to be jailed for several years to justify the bees from being burnt.

That's how justification works. The human doesn't need to burnt the same way as the bees should be. He's punished in a form to justify the situation where Law allows.

 

[John 1720]

then Jesus must be in hell right now and never get out. Or am I missing something?

Agree with Dave on this

You are missing the fact that hell is in eternity, not time, and “right now” at any point of time is meaningless in eternity.

There is also the fact that Christ conquered both Hell and Death as evidenced by His glorious resurrection; that an eternal statement made in our context of time. We are told in the 139th Psalm of God omnipresence and His dominion over all places including that great abyss.
7 Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning, And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
10 Even there Your hand shall lead me, and Your right hand shall hold me.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness shall fall on me,”
Even the night shall be light about me;
12 Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You, but the night shines as the day;
The darkness and the light are both alike to You.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Why does Hell exist in the first place?

Who made the rule that this would be the punishment for sin?

Who asks to be born?

 

[holo]

The analogy is more like a nest of bees is to be destroyed because they attacked humans. The nest of bees will be burnt to death. However your state laws allow the nest of bees to be saved if an innocent human is willing to be jailed for several years to justify the bees from being burnt.

That's how justification works. The human doesn't need to burnt the same way as the bees should be. He's punished in a form to justify the situation where Law allows.

In that case Jesus didn't take our punishment upon himself. Instead, it was substituted for a completely different punishment, as in the pretty crazy analogy with the bees you gave (I can't imagine what kind of logic would see it fit to jail some person for years to somehow retribute a bunch of bees stinging someone).

 

[Hawkins]

In that case Jesus didn't take our punishment upon himself. Instead, it was substituted for a completely different punishment, as in the pretty crazy analogy with the bees you gave (I can't imagine what kind of logic would see it fit to jail some person for years to somehow retribute a bunch of bees stinging someone).

That remains your misconception. The justification lies on "the self sacrifice of God" to save "the million lives of humans".

We don't burn 1000 humans in order to save 1000 bees. That's not where the justification lies. Humans' life is much more precious than that of the bees. Similarly, God is in a much higher position than humans. We don't put 1000 gods to hell in the replacement of 1000 men. This remains your misconception.

Moreover, God as God cannot be punished physically. You can however harm God by putting him into open disgrace by human sinners. That's the way how God is harmed.

Hebrews 6:4-6 (NIV2011)
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age
and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Here crucifixion is the punishment of God as man, while putting Him to public disgrace is to punish God as God. God never left His real name to humans for a reason.

Revelation 3:12 (NIV2011)
The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

then Jesus must be in hell right now and never get out. Or am I missing something?

Yes, you're missing something. Jesus didn't pay a price in our place in some 'Hell.' That kind of spinster theology is something that certain, overly zealous denominations of Christianity teach, quite erroneously I might add. So, feel free to drop it altogether.

No, Jesus' death on the cross, when said and done, was the only price to be paid on our behalf. There was no further action needed by the Son of God as Mediator between humanity and God by which salvation was bought, transacted and instituted. Although, it might very well be that Jesus, upon achieving victory over the Devil at the cross, then went to Hades to release the captives held there.

 

[hedrick]

I'm not sure anyone has actually answered what the OP asked. She's gotten the impression (presumably from other Christians, and possibly from discussions here) that Christians think Jesus had to pay the penalty that otherwise we would have to pay. But most people here believe the main penalty for sinners is hell. Not just death. Annihilationism (that the only punishment for sin is death) is considered unorthodox here. So why wasn't Jesus sentenced to hell?

Some Christians believe in the "harrowing of hell," that Jesus went there briefly to spring some or all of those who had died before. But that's certainly not equivalent to what Christian tradition says happens to sinners: an eternity of torment.

There are traditional answers to this question, but I haven't seen them given here. I'm not going to give them myself, because I don't believe in penal substitution in the first place.