if Harry Potter were real he would be going to hell

SonOfTheWest · Jul 25, 2011

ToBeInChrist said:
Again, those who endorse Harry Potter books/movies as probably harmless and not sinful, do you also approve of going to a fortune-teller to have an astrology chart or tarot card reading, and do you also approve of going to various channelers/spiritists to talk to dead people/spirits?

I asked questions that raised issues re: similarities between promoting porn and promoting 'entertainment' that glorifies/endorses forbidden arts. Care to respond?

Since I don't believe in astrology, or tarot, or channeling,etc if I had a reason to go to one it would be for entertainment purposes. And since things like books, movies, games,etc are FAR more entertaining to me. AND since I'm a bit of a miser. I doubt highly I would waste money in that sort of thing. More pertinently, would I care if someone else wanted to? No. Might mutter about being a waste of money and I'd rather be elsewhere since I'll probably be bored though. If you are looking for an "aye I fear for my immortal soul with such things!" ....well wrong tree mate.

ToBeInChrist · Jul 25, 2011

I thought I was pretty clear.

My heart may be moved by things in my environment to entertain sexual thoughts, or to feel strong physical attraction, or my body may simply provide me with urges. What ought I to do?

A magazine has a racy cover. Ought I to peruse it? Ought I to gaze at it intensely, or ought I to pass over it? Ought I to watch a whole movie that deals with sex outside of marriage? And then, of course, hard porn -- ought I to watch cartoon fantasies of sex?

The same sorts of questions can be asked with other issues, when there are other things in the environment, other thoughts, other urges, or other types of media which depicts things that are either sinful or have potential to train my heart to enjoy/approve of sin.

suzybeezy · Jul 25, 2011

Its not a matter of who's a good christian and who isn't. I just think its an issue of recognizing the moving of the spirit of the enemy to get a stronghold of our youth.

Let's try it this way, say you want to be a surgeon. When you first start getting your OR exposure, you may find things rather gross, but the more your exposed to it, the less it bothers you and soon you can dive right in. Same is occurring with the youth of today. They are exposed to a constant barrage of garbage from music, tv, the internet and books - none of which is Godly. At first, they may feel that little twinge inside that tells them its wrong, but over time, with so much exposure, they can sing sinful lyrics without noticing what they're singing or watch tv shows or movies or read books that have inappropriate content without batting an eye.

I'm not a radical extremists when it comes to this but I do believe that it behooves us to take heed at the workings of the enemy and be on guard that he's slowly chipping away at the hearts and minds of our young ones.

LinuxUser · Jul 25, 2011

ToBeInChrist said:
I thought I was pretty clear.

My heart may be moved by things in my environment to entertain sexual thoughts, or to feel strong physical attraction, or my body may simply provide me with urges. What ought I to do?

A magazine has a racy cover. Ought I to peruse it? Ought I to gaze at it intensely, or ought I to pass over it? Ought I to watch a whole movie that deals with sex outside of marriage? And then, of course, hard porn -- ought I to watch cartoon fantasies of sex?

The same sorts of questions can be asked with other issues, when there are other things in the environment, other thoughts, other urges, or other types of media which depicts things that are either sinful or have potential to train my heart to enjoy/approve of sin.

that's disgusting trying to compare a children's/teen book to porn.

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 25, 2011

pgp_protector said:
Ham links, lamb links, now I'm getting hungry.

Tis what is called a "thought disorder".
An uncontrollable urge to put up a link to a thread when certain words or phrases are used in a post.
My doctor said it is in incurable :o

http://www.christianforums.com/t7438358-45/#post54125347
How to convince R. Catholics that the ('host' wafer) is not Christs flesh and bone?

Originally Posted by MrPolo

That's the one! I was not suggesting you had a thought disorder. Rather, the Rohrschach test brings out that which dwells in the mind.

LittleLambofJesus · Jul 25, 2011

LinuxUser said:
that's disgusting trying to compare a children's/teen book to porn. You sir are a pinhead

Ever see him in the Hellraiser movies? Awsome!

‪Pinhead Tribute - Hellraiser 1,2,3‬&rlm; - YouTube

A New Dawn · Jul 25, 2011

suzybeezy said:
Its not a matter of who's a good christian and who isn't. I just think its an issue of recognizing the moving of the spirit of the enemy to get a stronghold of our youth.

Let's try it this way, say you want to be a surgeon. When you first start getting your OR exposure, you may find things rather gross, but the more your exposed to it, the less it bothers you and soon you can dive right in. Same is occurring with the youth of today. They are exposed to a constant barrage of garbage from music, tv, the internet and books - none of which is Godly. At first, they may feel that little twinge inside that tells them its wrong, but over time, with so much exposure, they can sing sinful lyrics without noticing what they're singing or watch tv shows or movies or read books that have inappropriate content without batting an eye.

I'm not a radical extremists when it comes to this but I do believe that it behooves us to take heed at the workings of the enemy and be on guard that he's slowly chipping away at the hearts and minds of our young ones.

I agree that we must be involved in what we let our kids watch/read/listen to, but I do believe that to compare a child's book that is based on solid Christian values to Satanic song lyrics or pornography is taking it to extremes. Sorry.

ToBeInChrist · Jul 25, 2011

What solid Christian values?

Where is there any "faith in Christ" in Harry Potter books? Where is obedience to Christ, the rejection of necromancy and astrology and the renouncing of the casting of enchantments?

No, there is no renouncing of the sins of witchcraft in Harry Potter, there is no such repentance.

Witchcraft is evil. You are not offended that witches are presented as 'good' in children's books, but then you are offended at what I've brought up? We should not encourage ourselves to sympathize with evil, or to approve of it. Whether it is porn or witchcraft or sadomasochism or the daily astrology forecast or the contents of the New Age bookshelf, there are concerns about how we filter, how we react, how our heart tends towards things that are not of God.

LinuxUser · Jul 25, 2011

oh brother

A New Dawn · Jul 25, 2011

ToBeInChrist said:
What solid Christian values?

Where is there any "faith in Christ" in Harry Potter books? Where is obedience to Christ, the rejection of necromancy and astrology and the renouncing of the casting of enchantments?

No, there is no renouncing of the sins of witchcraft in Harry Potter, there is no such repentance.

Witchcraft is evil. You are not offended that witches are presented as 'good' in children's books, but then you are offended at what I've brought up? We should not encourage ourselves to sympathize with evil, or to approve of it. Whether it is porn or witchcraft or sadomasochism or the daily astrology forecast or the contents of the New Age bookshelf, there are concerns about how we filter, how we react, how our heart tends towards things that are not of God.

What I am offended by is people who have no idea what the actual storyline of the book is yet stand there and condemn it. People who take the words of the Bible out of context and try to apply them to children's books when the concepts involved in them are completely different, yet choose to turn a blind eye to it. What is evil is people who condemn others because they believe differently.

ETA: Solid Christian values like good overcoming evil. Like stepping up and accepting responsibility for what needs to be done, even if it puts your life in jeopardy. Like choosing to do the right thing rather than give in to forces that try to pull you in a different direction. If you actually opened the book and looked, you'd see them on every page. And you wonder why I am offended. I'm offended that you'd classify something that teaches proper moral values as no different from porn.

ToBeInChrist · Jul 25, 2011

Question: do Harry and the other heroes/heroines gaze into crystal balls or use other means to divine the future, or are they taught to follow omens, and do they do so? Yes or no.

Question: are Harry and the other heroes/heroines taught to use astrology? Yes or no. Is astrology promoted/used/refered to as positive in the books? Yes or no.

Question: do Harry and the other heroes/heroines seek contact with various spirits and interact with them? Yes or no.

Question: do Harry and the other heroes/heroines charm/enchant others and mutter formula to do so? Yes or no.

Question: is training in harnessing their powers to do such things with skill a huge point of their special school? Yes or no.

Question: is there anything about denouncing astrology, sorcery, enchantment, magic, divination, mediumism/spiritism? Yes or no.

Question: are these practices central or peripheral to the action of the books?

Question: is there any recognizable Christian critique of such practices in the books?

You have mentioned nothing particularly Christian about the books. Is there renouncing of satan and all of his works (including the practices of astrology and divination and mediumship and enchantment), is there anything leading one to saving faith in Jesus Christ as Lord, anything relevant to being sanctified? You tell me, since you claim there is something Christian about the series.

itisdeliciouscake · Jul 25, 2011

I still have yet for someone to show me that reading and enjoying literature that involves magic is forbidden by Scripture.

Until someone can show me that, why are we adding man-made commandments to Scripture?

A New Dawn · Jul 25, 2011

ToBeInChrist said:
Question: do Harry and the other heroes/heroines gaze into crystal balls or use other means to divine the future, or are they taught to follow omens, and do they do so? Yes or no.

Question: are Harry and the other heroes/heroines taught to use astrology? Yes or no. Is astrology promoted/used/refered to as positive in the books? Yes or no.

Question: do Harry and the other heroes/heroines seek contact with various spirits and interact with them? Yes or no.

Question: do Harry and the other heroes/heroines charm/enchant others and mutter formula to do so? Yes or no.

Question: is training in harnessing their powers to do such things with skill a huge point of their special school? Yes or no.

Question: is there anything about denouncing astrology, sorcery, enchantment, magic, divination, mediumism/spiritism? Yes or no.

Question: are these practices central or peripheral to the action of the books?

Question: is there any recognizable Christian critique of such practices in the books?

You have mentioned nothing particularly Christian about the books. Is there renouncing of satan and all of his works (including the practices of astrology and divination and mediumship and enchantment), is there anything leading one to saving faith in Jesus Christ as Lord, anything relevant to being sanctified? You tell me, since you claim there is something Christian about the series.

And you have mentioned nothing in the books that actually applies to what the Bible talks about. When you do, maybe we can talk further.

Fireinfolding · Jul 25, 2011

Saul went to one to bring up one of the prophets Samuel (because God wasnt answering him anymore). But beforetime in Israel thats where one would go to enquire of God ( a living prophet or seer) but not through the other, he certainly wasnt looking for demons but for the prophet Samuel because he was desparate.

ToBeInChrist · Jul 25, 2011

A New Dawn said:
And you have mentioned nothing in the books that actually applies to what the Bible talks about. When you do, maybe we can talk further.

So do you deny that the following are sinful: divination, following after/observing omens, consulting astrologers, casting enchantments, mediumship/spiritism, muttering incantations for magical effect?

ToBeInChrist · Jul 25, 2011

itisdeliciouscake said:
I still have yet for someone to show me that reading and enjoying literature that involves magic is forbidden by Scripture.

Until someone can show me that, why are we adding man-made commandments to Scripture?

I am asking about the heart attitude, whether our hearts need adjustment, how we may guard our heart, or whether we are careless with our hearts.

I am asking about what's going on in the heart when we are entertained by things that God says are abhorrent.

I'm concerned that I love God better. I want my heart to draw closer to Him.

Fireinfolding · Jul 25, 2011

ToBeInChrist said:
So do you deny that the following are sinful: divination, following after/observing omens, consulting astrologers, casting enchantments, mediumship/spiritism, muttering incantations for magical effect?

Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

MarkRohfrietsch · Jul 26, 2011

LittleLambofJesus said:
Tis commonly referred to here on CF as the "closed mind/wounded duck" syndrome...

http://www.christianforums.com/t1572784/
Does anyone ever change their beliefs on this forum?

I am just wondering if there is a purpose for discussing much of the things that are discussed here on these forums. I am wondering if everyone here has already come to these forums with a closed mind, ready to convince everyone else they are right without even thinking upon the other point of view.

So, has anyone ever got on this forum one day with a certain position, and after someone here pointed out the other view point, changed their mind on their position? If so, what position was it? What was said to change your mind?

I think that these discussions and debates have little to do with having our or anyone's mind changed (even should that be one's intent); it has way more to do with our own personal spiritual growth... such is the purpose (or more properly the result) IMO.

A New Dawn · Jul 26, 2011

ToBeInChrist said:
So do you deny that the following are sinful: divination, following after/observing omens, consulting astrologers, casting enchantments, mediumship/spiritism, muttering incantations for magical effect?

When you acknowledge that there is a difference between a tool and a religion, then we can talk.

ToBeInChrist · Jul 26, 2011

A New Dawn said:
When you acknowledge that there is a difference between a tool and a religion, then we can talk.

We aren't supposed to consult mediums or do divination/follow omens or astrology, we aren't supposed to mutter magic words to perform spells/enchantments/sorcery -- whether or not we would do so in connection with a pagan deity or whether we did so merely as a technical experiment.

Do not practice divination or sorcery (Leviticus 19:26).

if Harry Potter were real he would be going to hell

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Bind my wandering heart to thee!

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Deus est regit qui omnia

Bind my wandering heart to thee!

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