If God manifested himself, how would you know that it was God?

[WoundedDeep]

No, a theological lens simply refers to a theology, which is a system of religious beliefs. You have a theology as well. Theology can also refer to the study of God, but I am using the word in the former sense, not the latter.

Yeah, so where did you get your set of beliefs from? Yourself, or someone else?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Yeah, so where did you get your set of beliefs from? Yourself, or someone else?

Am I on trial here or something? Why am I being asked to give a full accounting of my religious history?

 

[WoundedDeep]

I don't care what the Bible says is the standard. The Bible does not dictate our use of words. If Bill, my neighbour, claims to believe that Jesus Christ is God's Son, I will call Bill a Christian. I don't care whether he has repented or not, the only appropriate label for Bill's beliefs is "Christian."

If Bill had not repented, then I will point him out as a false Christian. This is the Christian standard. If the world wants to misunderstand what a Christian really means with their own definition, they do it to their own confusion.

 

[WoundedDeep]

Am I on trial here or something? Why am I being asked to give a full accounting of my religious history?

No, I am asking you for you to reflect upon yourself. Why are you letting someone else define and influence your beliefs instead of what you experienced yourself?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

If Bill had not repented, then I will point him out as a false. This is the Christian standard. If the world wants to misunderstand what a Christian really means with their own definition, they do it to their own confusion.

I don't care if you call him "false". Christians have been calling other Christians "false" for centuries. It doesn't matter to me whether you think Bill isn't a true Christian. You don't own the word "Christian" and you do not get to dictate its common usage.

 

[Davian]

Am I on trial here or something? Why am I being asked to give a full accounting of my religious history?

I infer from her questions that she feels that if she can somehow find "fault" with your beliefs, it will in some way lend credence to hers.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

No, I am asking you for you to reflect upon yourself. Why are you letting someone else define and influence your beliefs instead of what you experienced yourself?

I'm not letting someone else define and influence my beliefs. Where have I said that? I clearly stated that I developed the habit of examining my faith critically, and that, as a consequence, I gradually lost it.

 

[WoundedDeep]

I'm not letting someone else define and influence my beliefs. Where have I said that? I clearly stated that I developed the habit of examining my faith critically, and that, as a consequence, I gradually lost it.

Ok, I understand what you mean. But I doubt your "examination" has proven that Christianity is false, since you yourself admitted that you had prayers "answered". Like you also said, the Divine Flame exists, and it is based on that fact that we acknowledge God. So, what reason do you have against us believing in God (or as you call it Divine Flame)?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Ok, I understand what you mean. But I doubt your "examination" has proven that Christianity is false, since you yourself admitted that you had prayers "answered".

No, I said that, at the time, I perceived that they were "answered." I no longer believe that they were.

Like you also said, the Divine Flame exists, and it is based on that fact that we acknowledge God. So, what more contention do you have against us believing in God (or as you call it Divine Flame)?

The Divine Flame is my parody of a certain apologetic. I don't actually believe in the existence of the Divine Flame. I really should make that clearer, since apparently some people are beginning to think that Flamism is a real thing.

 

[WoundedDeep]

No, I said that, at the time, I perceived that they were "answered." I no longer believe that they were.



The Divine Flame is my parody of a certain apologetic. I don't actually believe in the existence of the Divine Flame. I really should make that clearer, since apparently some people are beginning to think that Flamism is a real thing.

Yeah, but I have yet to see how your examination makes the Christian faith false. Not believing does not equate to falsehood.

You certainly didn't say you don't believe when you responded on the other thread to me. I thought it is even more odd then that you would make a seemingly affirmative statement on something you don't believe in.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Yeah, but I have yet to see how your examination makes the Christian faith false. Not believing does not equate to falsehood.

Is that what you've been waiting for? For me to show you that Christianity is definitely false? Because that isn't what you've been asking me.

Not believing does not equate to falsehood.

Simply believing doesn't make something true either.

You certainly didn't say you don't believe when you responded on the other thread to me. I thought it is even more odd then that you would make a seemingly affirmative statement on something you don't believe in.

That's why it must be read in context.

 

[WoundedDeep]

Is that what you've been waiting for? For me to show you that Christianity is definitely false? Because that isn't what you've been asking me.



Simply believing doesn't make something true either.



That's why it must be read in context.

Yes, because I would deem it a strange thing for someone to abandon a faith if that person had not been convinced that the faith is false. I am curious as to why you left Christianity, that's what I'm asking.

No Christian (I mean true Christians) merely believed. There is a process which will start and reinforce the faith if the person truly became a Christian. This process is the work of God.

Perhaps I didn't, but I clearly can't read in context if all you gave is an affirmative statement.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Yes, because I would deem it a strange thing for someone to abandon a faith if that person had not been convinced that the faith is false. I am curious as to why you left Christianity, that's what I'm asking.

No Christian (I mean true Christians) merely believed. There is a process which will start and reinforce the faith if the person truly became a Christian. This process is the work of God.

I never stated that I "merely believed." I believed. I also went to church, read the Bible, prayed, contemplated, etc.

 

[WoundedDeep]

I never stated that I "merely believed." I believed. I also went to church, read the Bible, prayed, contemplated, etc.

Did you repent when you first believed and get baptized and then receive the Spirit of God?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Did you repent when you first believed and get baptized and then receive the Spirit of God?

Yes, I repented. What part of "I was once a Christian" are you unable to understand? I believed, I repented, I prayed, I went to church, I thought about being a pastor or minister. And yet, having said all that, you still approach the matter inquisitorially as though you are looking for a single fault that you can use to say "Aha! See! You never really were a Christian. All you were was someone who believed, repented, prayed, went to church, and contemplated being a pastor - but not a real Christian."

 

[WoundedDeep]

Yes, I repented. What part of "I was once a Christian" are you unable to understand? I believed, I repented, I prayed, I went to church, I thought about being a pastor or minister. And yet, having said all that, you still approach the matter inquisitorially as though you are looking for a single fault that you can use to say "Aha! See! You never really were a Christian. All you were was someone who believed, repented, prayed, went to church, and contemplated being a pastor - but not a real Christian."

No, you said it doesn't matter whether a Christian repented or not - that is false in light of the Gospel. It does matter. You only said you repented in your last post, I was not aware of it until then. I am not looking to find fault, where did I ever say such a thing? Trying to determine the cause of something isn't finding fault. Why do you think I will waste time here trying to find out something of no concern to me?

Since this is a forum and not a chat box, I don't think we can continue such forms of discussion here. Anyhow, if you care or are interested, drop me a PM and let me know why you don't believe anymore. Try to be specific if you decide to PM. I'm not forcing you to share, do it on your own accord if you want. God bless.

 

[variant]

Yes, I repented. What part of "I was once a Christian" are you unable to understand? I believed, I repented, I prayed, I went to church, I thought about being a pastor or minister. And yet, having said all that, you still approach the matter inquisitorially as though you are looking for a single fault that you can use to say "Aha! See! You never really were a Christian. All you were was someone who believed, repented, prayed, went to church, and contemplated being a pastor - but not a real Christian."

Do you really expect to be treated well by people who think that Christianity works for who want it to?

The assumption is that you, and not the religion is at fault for your disbelief, and they will keep at it until they prove the point.

Personally I left my religion because I couldn't stop feeling more and more skeptical of religious claims as I grew into my adult mind. I find the stories unlikely and the religious apologetic unsatisfying the ritual empty.

 

[WoundedDeep]

Do you really expect to be treated well by people who think that Christianity works for who want it to?

I'm trying to find out what caused a former believer to depart from the faith because I care for his salvation. Is that some kind of maltreatment?

 

[variant]

Yeah, but I have yet to see how your examination makes the Christian faith false. Not believing does not equate to falsehood.

It's not that people think that they can prove that religion is false, as I have said to you on other occasions that is generally impossible.

Simply thinking that the claims of a religion aren't supported well enough can lead people to a lack of belief in them.

They are rather extraordinary claims.

 

[variant]

I'm trying to find out what caused a former believer to depart from the faith because I care for his salvation. Is that some kind of maltreatment?

I think you might mean well, but that I have seen religious people interrogate the non religous over their falling out of belief quite a few times.

Giving someone the third degree (generally seeking to blame them) because they couldn't maintain religious belief is very rude in my opinion.

It seems like religious people think that if someone stops believing it is because they don't want to believe, and that is far from the truth.