If God loves us, why does he send us to hell?
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Rebellionaire
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God loves us. There's no doubt about that. He sent His son to die for us so that we might be saved. "MIGHT" be saved. The Lord knows which of His flock will run to His arms and which of them will flee from Him. He knows, but we don't, which is why it's our job to try and sway the decisions of everyone.
As far as being Biblical, my Pastor says it pretty much the same way, so I'd say it is. If you outrightly deny the gift of God, then you deserve to live eternity wherever it is that's far far away from Him. That's like if I were to tell you all you had to do was believe in me and I'd give you a million dollars and you just flat-out said "No" and never made another thought about it. If you were the one offering, wouldn't you just move off and find someone else?
As far as being Biblical, my Pastor says it pretty much the same way, so I'd say it is. If you outrightly deny the gift of God, then you deserve to live eternity wherever it is that's far far away from Him. That's like if I were to tell you all you had to do was believe in me and I'd give you a million dollars and you just flat-out said "No" and never made another thought about it. If you were the one offering, wouldn't you just move off and find someone else?
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brohammer26
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I think it is a legitmate question by the OP. This ex you give is nothing like what we are told from the church. We are offered eternal life *BUT* we have very strict rules that are set that are to be followed and if they are not then we get tortured day and night for ever and ever. Luckily god forgives, but none of us really know the depth of that forgiveness. A slip of the tounge could be eternal damnation as ALL sins are seen as the same. It is an uncomfortable topic and one that scares so many people away from christianty.
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Audacious
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I see salvation as a dividing line between Christians and those who do not share the faith.
I think that God controls the salvation of Christians (bringing us to heaven) but not that of other parties - and since humanity is inherently corrupted and sinful, the default for where we go when we die is hell (or you can see hell as earth post-rapture, or a million other things - I personally imagine as an earth without God, but that's just my imagination since I haven't put a whole lot of thought into what is defined as hell).
We need to actually reach out to God to receive His blessing - so to speak, we need to cross over to His side, join His army. The default of humanity is sin, unrighteousness and evil - we cannot join with a being who is righteous in every way, befriend Him and love Him, if we are so blatantly corrupt. I find it naive to believe that a willingly unrighteous person wouldn't reject Him if they were able to directly face Him. We need to be cleansed, we need to love Him and connect with Him, because you're either against God or you're with Him.
Basically, I think that Hell is just the natural consequences of our own sinful actions, that we were saved by the grave sacrifice of a loving God, and that without Him we go back to the default option of Hell. (I don't think that it's a place God puts you because you were a bad boy, but I guess anyone reading this has my general attitude on this down, so meh.).
James
I think that God controls the salvation of Christians (bringing us to heaven) but not that of other parties - and since humanity is inherently corrupted and sinful, the default for where we go when we die is hell (or you can see hell as earth post-rapture, or a million other things - I personally imagine as an earth without God, but that's just my imagination since I haven't put a whole lot of thought into what is defined as hell).
We need to actually reach out to God to receive His blessing - so to speak, we need to cross over to His side, join His army. The default of humanity is sin, unrighteousness and evil - we cannot join with a being who is righteous in every way, befriend Him and love Him, if we are so blatantly corrupt. I find it naive to believe that a willingly unrighteous person wouldn't reject Him if they were able to directly face Him. We need to be cleansed, we need to love Him and connect with Him, because you're either against God or you're with Him.
Basically, I think that Hell is just the natural consequences of our own sinful actions, that we were saved by the grave sacrifice of a loving God, and that without Him we go back to the default option of Hell. (I don't think that it's a place God puts you because you were a bad boy, but I guess anyone reading this has my general attitude on this down, so meh.).
James
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apocolypticremedy999
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I believe so. However, hell is far worse than anything the Israelites experienced in Egypt.
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WinBySurrender
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BriBrit
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You speak the truth. I was mightily blessed by this and your pervious post.
My take on this subject is this:
God is Love. Its not an attribute or trait. He IS Love. Now, if He IS Love, then Love underpins, surrounds, covers and permeates everything He thinks, says and does. In other words, all things flow from His Love. So His Justice is merely an expression of His Love. Now, if that is true for Justice then it must be true for His Mercy. That means His Justice does not exist without His Mercy and vice versa and neither exist without Love.
How, then, does God deal with the problem of sin and sinners?
Answer: The Gospel. This demonstrated His power unto salvation. Salvation means being saved, healed, and restored.
His power to save whom?
Sinners. Who are sinners? All are sinners. So the Gospel is Gods power to save all sinners. Yes? No?
Like the Beatles song, Some say, yes; some say No.
But God has the power to save all sinners, then why should we say no! I do not say no. Christ died for all sinners; no exceptions. He didnt die for non-sinners, for nobody is without sin. So, if God has the power to save all men and the power of God unto salvation through the Gospel (Christs sacrifice on behalf of all men) then there is no reason why all men cannot be saved.
What is to stop Him?
Ultimately, nothing; otherwise that would have to be bigger than Him and if it is bigger than Him then He is not God.
But there is a condition for salvation and that is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thats right, there is no other name under heaven whereby we can be saved.
Who is we?
All men.
But all men do not believe.
No, they dont. But is there any reason why they cant? There is no reason why they cant. All men are capable of believing. And since God has the power to save all men He must be able to bring all men around to believing, right? Nothing is impossible with God, is it? And what stops a person from believing in the Lord Jesus Christ unto salvation? Answer: The love of sin.
But some dont want to give up their love of sin.
Thats true but God can destroy the love of sin and replace it with the love of righteousness, right?
How?
In the same way He did for me. And if He could do it for me then He can do it for anyone; for all, in fact.
Ah, but what about those who resist God?
Well, I resisted God and yet He saved me. Who has more power, man or God? Clearly God has.
But Love does not compel.
No, but Love can constrain. He did not compel me; He constrained me with His love.
How?
Through the Gospel.
There is nothing to prevent God in His Love and Mercy from saving every single soul that has lived or ever will live.
But does that mean God dispenses with His Justice?
No, all sin must be punished. And it was. Christ bore all our sins in His soul in our place. Every mans sins.
But there have been some very evil people who have lived on this earth. Are you telling me that people like Nero and Hitler can be saved?
Yes. Nothing is impossible with God and we are all sinners and all have come short of the glory of God clearly some more than others. In any case isnt all sin equally evil?
How can God save a man like Nero or Hitler? By the same process He used to save you and me. And what am I talking about but the process of rehabilitation that included conviction and confession of sin.
But what if the persons conscience is dead?
Nobodys conscience is dead, not even in someone like Hitler. Thats possibly the reason or part of the reason he committed suicide.
But he must understand the appalling consequences of the evil he has committed if he is to be rehabilitated, not least so that he will never desire to do it again.
Yes. God can do that.
How will God do that? Well, nothing is impossible with God; because He is omnipotent He has an infinite number of ways. One method He could use is a life review, where each part of a persons life repeatedly revisited. For example some people who have made a near death experience (NDE) testify to undergoing a life review which totally transformed their character and life. They testify how they revisited parts of their life, what they were thinking and feeling at the time and even what others were thinking and feeling at the time or what others were thinking and feeling as a result of every decision and action the experiencer had taken. Even the worst of sinners can be transformed.
But what if a sinner completely doesnt care? He would have to be void of all conscience not to care in some way or another. But God can awaken the most hardened conscience. Repeated exposure to the suffering the sinner has caused will ultimately break him and fill him with unspeakable guilt, shame and anguish. It will cause him to cry out for mercy and forgiveness if He knows God is behind the process. Once that point is reached He is ready to receive the Gospel.
My take on this subject is this:
God is Love. Its not an attribute or trait. He IS Love. Now, if He IS Love, then Love underpins, surrounds, covers and permeates everything He thinks, says and does. In other words, all things flow from His Love. So His Justice is merely an expression of His Love. Now, if that is true for Justice then it must be true for His Mercy. That means His Justice does not exist without His Mercy and vice versa and neither exist without Love.
How, then, does God deal with the problem of sin and sinners?
Answer: The Gospel. This demonstrated His power unto salvation. Salvation means being saved, healed, and restored.
His power to save whom?
Sinners. Who are sinners? All are sinners. So the Gospel is Gods power to save all sinners. Yes? No?
Like the Beatles song, Some say, yes; some say No.
But God has the power to save all sinners, then why should we say no! I do not say no. Christ died for all sinners; no exceptions. He didnt die for non-sinners, for nobody is without sin. So, if God has the power to save all men and the power of God unto salvation through the Gospel (Christs sacrifice on behalf of all men) then there is no reason why all men cannot be saved.
What is to stop Him?
Ultimately, nothing; otherwise that would have to be bigger than Him and if it is bigger than Him then He is not God.
But there is a condition for salvation and that is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thats right, there is no other name under heaven whereby we can be saved.
Who is we?
All men.
But all men do not believe.
No, they dont. But is there any reason why they cant? There is no reason why they cant. All men are capable of believing. And since God has the power to save all men He must be able to bring all men around to believing, right? Nothing is impossible with God, is it? And what stops a person from believing in the Lord Jesus Christ unto salvation? Answer: The love of sin.
But some dont want to give up their love of sin.
Thats true but God can destroy the love of sin and replace it with the love of righteousness, right?
How?
In the same way He did for me. And if He could do it for me then He can do it for anyone; for all, in fact.
Ah, but what about those who resist God?
Well, I resisted God and yet He saved me. Who has more power, man or God? Clearly God has.
But Love does not compel.
No, but Love can constrain. He did not compel me; He constrained me with His love.
How?
Through the Gospel.
There is nothing to prevent God in His Love and Mercy from saving every single soul that has lived or ever will live.
But does that mean God dispenses with His Justice?
No, all sin must be punished. And it was. Christ bore all our sins in His soul in our place. Every mans sins.
But there have been some very evil people who have lived on this earth. Are you telling me that people like Nero and Hitler can be saved?
Yes. Nothing is impossible with God and we are all sinners and all have come short of the glory of God clearly some more than others. In any case isnt all sin equally evil?
How can God save a man like Nero or Hitler? By the same process He used to save you and me. And what am I talking about but the process of rehabilitation that included conviction and confession of sin.
But what if the persons conscience is dead?
Nobodys conscience is dead, not even in someone like Hitler. Thats possibly the reason or part of the reason he committed suicide.
But he must understand the appalling consequences of the evil he has committed if he is to be rehabilitated, not least so that he will never desire to do it again.
Yes. God can do that.
How will God do that? Well, nothing is impossible with God; because He is omnipotent He has an infinite number of ways. One method He could use is a life review, where each part of a persons life repeatedly revisited. For example some people who have made a near death experience (NDE) testify to undergoing a life review which totally transformed their character and life. They testify how they revisited parts of their life, what they were thinking and feeling at the time and even what others were thinking and feeling at the time or what others were thinking and feeling as a result of every decision and action the experiencer had taken. Even the worst of sinners can be transformed.
But what if a sinner completely doesnt care? He would have to be void of all conscience not to care in some way or another. But God can awaken the most hardened conscience. Repeated exposure to the suffering the sinner has caused will ultimately break him and fill him with unspeakable guilt, shame and anguish. It will cause him to cry out for mercy and forgiveness if He knows God is behind the process. Once that point is reached He is ready to receive the Gospel.
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dollarsbill
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Jesus was sinless. We aren't. See the diff? Those who refuse, lose.
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The Question is if God loves us why does he send us to hell.
God Is love yes. And because He is love he must punish sin. Just imagine if your relative was murdered. And that murder stood before the judge and said " Mr. Judge I know you love me so please forgive me I am sorry" Would that judge let him go? If he did let him go would you the relative think he is a loveing Judge? No you would think he is wicked and evil.
That is just like us. We all have sinned and we deserve God's wrath. The sin must be paid for. The sin we commit can not go unpunished. If it did God would not be loveing or just. Because he loves he must be just.
Now what people are missing here is that our sins were paid for. The full wrath of God was absorbed by Jesus Christ. The wrath that we deserve and the wrath that was meant for us because of our sin was put on Jesus Christ.
When we ask forgiveness for our sins God can only forgive us because Jesus took the wrath for that sin and we are justified.
Romans Chapter 1 I think tells us that the unsaved are storing up thier wrath for the day of wrath on judgement.
So in Answer. If God loves us why does he send us to hell. Because all sin has to be paid for. all the good that we ever can do means nothing because the Sin must be paid for. So one of 2 things will happen. 1- we reject Jesus and take God's wrath for our own sin. 2- We are hidden in Christ and Jesus took the wrath for us on the cross.
If you want scriptures for all this I can give it to you. This was just my short simplified answer.
I will not debate Calvinism or Arminianism as some here started to because that was not the question asked. Have a good day people and May God richly bless you all
God Is love yes. And because He is love he must punish sin. Just imagine if your relative was murdered. And that murder stood before the judge and said " Mr. Judge I know you love me so please forgive me I am sorry" Would that judge let him go? If he did let him go would you the relative think he is a loveing Judge? No you would think he is wicked and evil.
That is just like us. We all have sinned and we deserve God's wrath. The sin must be paid for. The sin we commit can not go unpunished. If it did God would not be loveing or just. Because he loves he must be just.
Now what people are missing here is that our sins were paid for. The full wrath of God was absorbed by Jesus Christ. The wrath that we deserve and the wrath that was meant for us because of our sin was put on Jesus Christ.
When we ask forgiveness for our sins God can only forgive us because Jesus took the wrath for that sin and we are justified.
Romans Chapter 1 I think tells us that the unsaved are storing up thier wrath for the day of wrath on judgement.
So in Answer. If God loves us why does he send us to hell. Because all sin has to be paid for. all the good that we ever can do means nothing because the Sin must be paid for. So one of 2 things will happen. 1- we reject Jesus and take God's wrath for our own sin. 2- We are hidden in Christ and Jesus took the wrath for us on the cross.
If you want scriptures for all this I can give it to you. This was just my short simplified answer.
I will not debate Calvinism or Arminianism as some here started to because that was not the question asked. Have a good day people and May God richly bless you all
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I agree. He was sinless and thats why after God's wrath was finished with Jesus he said. It is finished. It satisfied the father to crush His son for our sakes.
We have sinned and without Christ we are sin. Wicked and evil in every work.
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BriBrit
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I don't personally think the issue is as black and white as you posit it. The Bible does not teach a dogmatic either/or in the context of salvation -- in the context of judgment, yes, -- but not when it comes to offering salvation.
Think about it but your view, if accepted makes God impotent to save the majority of mankind and to clean up the universe of sin and death (I think not) and means Christ falled to reconcile all men to God (I think not)
Whilst there is only one name under heaven by which anyway past present or future can be saved, there is nothing in the Bible that teaches that the billions who have died without any knowledge of God (most, at no fault of their own) will not have an opportunity after death. It's not always possible for people to make a decision for or against God and even then what is to stop God from opening their eyes. The God I know is sovereign and do all things and is not held to ransom by the will of man.
No doubt this will offend many (perhaps even yourself) and I shall be devoured. But why should this offend those who love their neighbour? Christ forgave His enemies on the Christ did He not? Whilst the conditions for salvation must be met there is nothing to prevent God from ensuring all men meet those conditions. In the end I think we will be very surprised and will wish we thought more outside of our little boxes than what we have.
Think about it but your view, if accepted makes God impotent to save the majority of mankind and to clean up the universe of sin and death (I think not) and means Christ falled to reconcile all men to God (I think not)
Whilst there is only one name under heaven by which anyway past present or future can be saved, there is nothing in the Bible that teaches that the billions who have died without any knowledge of God (most, at no fault of their own) will not have an opportunity after death. It's not always possible for people to make a decision for or against God and even then what is to stop God from opening their eyes. The God I know is sovereign and do all things and is not held to ransom by the will of man.
No doubt this will offend many (perhaps even yourself) and I shall be devoured. But why should this offend those who love their neighbour? Christ forgave His enemies on the Christ did He not? Whilst the conditions for salvation must be met there is nothing to prevent God from ensuring all men meet those conditions. In the end I think we will be very surprised and will wish we thought more outside of our little boxes than what we have.
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Perhaps. If it was my loved one who was murdered i might take viscous glee in the thought of the perpetrator suffering for eternity. But would a human judge be just in sentencing a murderer to eternal torment?
Heres another illustration. Imagine Joe Bloggs, through living foolishly and sinfully, ends up being tied to a stake with a fire set under him. His agony begins. I had offered him opportunity to avoid this outcome and he foolishly refused.
Joe is now screaming for me to kill him. I could just shoot him in the head to end his suffering. I could let him burn for a while - as just punishment for sins committed - before shooting him. Or i could just leave him to burn as he deserves. The only difference is that, with the God some are describing in this thread, Joe will never die.
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Sophrosyne
Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16
BTW this is a Christian only area of the forum, unless you change your icon you aren't allowed to post here. http://www.christianforums.com/f459/
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I will here not get involved in discussing or debating on salvation after death as this forum here is for the question that I just answered. How can god love us and throw us into hell. You either believe in universalism or some offshoot of it. I will how ever leave you with some scriptures to think about and if you want to further discuss it make another thread on the topic and invite me and I will join your discussion.
1st I would recommend you study romans chapters 1 and 2
Rom 2:5
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
KJV
Heb 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
KJV
Rev 20:12-15
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV
God bless
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1st you are an unbeliever. So you are not to be posting in this forum. Second you do not understand judgement.
If you lie to your 4 year old child what is the punishment. Nothing
If you lie to your wife what is the punishment - she will be upset and even possibly losing your relationship depending on the lie.
If you lie to your boss you could lose your job.
If you lie to the police you can be arrested
If you lie to a judge you can be thrown in jail for a long period of time depending on the lie.
When you lie to different levels of authority you get different levels of punishment.
Now lets just look at the sin of lieing to a Holy and just God. 1st His commandment is thou shalt not give false witness ( lieing) and other places ALL liers get there part in the late of fire.
We are commanded not to lie. But how many times do you lie a day or a week or a year. lets just pretend it is 1 time a day. thats 7 times a week. thats 364 times a year. in ten years you broke God's law 3640 times. Now thats only 1 law. Man kind has broke God's law many many many more times than that. So A just and Holy God must punish. And there is no just punishment except Hell that will make up for those sins. Thats why it is eternal. You sinned against an eternal God. But God so loved us that he gave His own beggotten son to die for us. That God's wrath is poured out on His son in our stead there fore the Law of God is now satisfied through Jesus Christ.
But Agaiin 1. you are not to be posting here so you broke the rules of this forum. And 2 I am off topic in this forum so will not reply back to you here. If you want to make another forum and invite me I can discuss it there.
Thank you and May God Bless you.
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apocolypticremedy999
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apocolypticremedy999
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True, it grieves him and the sacrifice of life is supposed to evoke the guilt we should feel for our sinful ways.
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Amen brother. A classic example of someone not using the whole council of God in thier doctrine. Justice is just as much His character as love. Good reply 5 stars
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