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A loving parent wouldn't dream of killing their child....could a loving parent justify killing their infant child in order to ensure that their child spends forever in Heaven?
Right. Paul describes it as a separation from the Lord's presence.-The punishment is not like some type of being whipped for all eternity. The punishment is that the unbeliever remains a sinner for all eternity and is separated from The Life of God and being able to enjoy life away from the sin curse Adam brought into the world.
Such a belief is complete nonsense. As if the eternal destiny of a child is up to the child's parents? Which would then mean you have to be lucky enough to have parents who have you baptized as an infant? How can one's eternal destiny be decided in such a way? It can't be.Not a conundrum for the denominations that believe in infant baptism.
Many people think that Christianity is complete nonsense. Does that affect your belief in Christianity?Such a belief is complete nonsense.
Everyone who is saved is fortunate. Salvation is a gift. None of us deserve it. So anyone who is saved is "lucky" in a sense.As if the eternal destiny of a child is up to the child's parents? Which would then mean you have to be lucky enough to have parents who have you baptized as an infant?
How can one's eternal destiny be decided in such a way? It can't be.
Wrong. . ....could a loving parent justify killing their infant child in order to ensure that their child spends forever in Heaven?
Conversely, is it reckless and unloving for a parent to allow their offspring to reach the age of accountability and risk that they will spend forever being tortured by Jesus in Hell?
These ridiculous questions demonstrate the illogical doctrine of forever punishment. Right?
You seem to be an expert on what other people believe and do not believe.Wrong. . .
You simply do not believe Jesus in Mt 25:46: "Then they will go away to eternal punishment. . ."
And that unbelief is above our pay grade here at the Forum.
No one is innocent. . .all those born of Adam are guilty of the sin of Adam imputed to them (Ro 5:17),I am not so sure that one needs to go as far as this to prove we have a righteous and loving Father but, there you have it, the pushback on the doctrine of original sin by Augustine. I believe if we simply exercise just a bit of common sense plus, taking into consideration God's nature and character, we can safely conclude that He would not damn the innocent.
God would not, will not punish infants, small children, the mentally handicapped, etc. BUT I believe God will do what He said He would....could a loving parent justify killing their infant child in order to ensure that their child spends forever in Heaven?
Conversely, is it reckless and unloving for a parent to allow their offspring to reach the age of accountability and risk that they will spend forever being tortured by Jesus in Hell?
These ridiculous questions demonstrate the illogical doctrine of forever punishment. Right?
...could a loving parent justify killing their infant child in order to ensure that their child spends forever in Heaven?
Conversely, is it reckless and unloving for a parent to allow their offspring to reach the age of accountability and risk that they will spend forever being tortured by Jesus in Hell?
These ridiculous questions demonstrate the illogical doctrine of forever punishment. Right?
That's a great question. Why have offspring who might be tortured endlessly forever and ever?Could a loving, morally responsible person who believes in eternal torment justify choosing to have children at all?
Keeping in mind that we are by nature objects of wrath (Eph 2:3),God would not, will not punish infants, small children, the mentally handicapped, etc. BUT I believe God will do what He said He would.
No. But, as Christians, I think we should have a much better understanding of what is complete nonsense than non-Christians do, so I'm not really seeing your point here.Many people think that Christianity is complete nonsense. Does that affect your belief in Christianity?
God is love. He's not obligated to make salvation available for anyone, but a God who is love (1 John 4:8) would not just offer or give salvation to some without offering salvation to all people. Otherwise, you turn Him into a God who is love and hate (or indifference).Everyone who is saved is fortunate. Salvation is a gift. None of us deserve it. So anyone who is saved is "lucky" in a sense.
What have they done that would make them guilty and be sent to hell? Nothing. So, a God who is love sending someone to hell for no reason would be contradictory.I do not believe that non-baptized children are damned. I do not know what happens to them (or to other people such as the mentally ill, or adults who die without having had the gospel preached to them). I have a hope that they will be saved through the merits won by our Lord by his sacrifice on the cross.
No one is born guilty. That's complete nonsense. Someone who has just been born has not done anything to be guilty of. Paul said that he did not become dead in his sins until he became aware of his sin by way of the law.Keeping in mind that we are by nature objects of wrath (Eph 2:3),
born with the guilt of the imputed sin of Adam (Ro 5:17, 12-14),
which is removed only by faith in and trust on the person and atoning work of Jesus Christ for the remission of our sin (Ro 3:25).
Why do you say that? Do you find eternal life to be wildly illogical, also?That's a great question. Why have offspring who might be tortured endlessly forever and ever?
The doctrine of eternal torment is not only unbiblical but wildly illogical.
You are a universalist? Scripture never teaches such a thing. Show me where scripture teaches that anyone who is cast into the lake of fire ever gets the opportunity to repent.If forever punishment is true then why wouldn't a loving parent kill their infant child in order to ensure that they go to Heaven?
I have come to believe that the knowledge that Jesus will succeed in persuading ALL beings who ever lived to follow him and thus be saved is knowledge that must be revealed by the Holy Spirit. I believe there is a spiritual blindness in the world that prevents even many Christians from understanding this basic but significant truth.
That's not talking about individual election to salvation.And I should have wiiten a couple days ago of Rom 9:11
For ( the children ) not yet having been BORN , neither having PRACTISED , anything Good or Bad , in order that the
Purpoe of God according to ELECTION might remain , not from Works But from the One callig ,
dan p
Falls somewhat short of Biblical demonstration of the error in the following:No one is born guilty. That's complete nonsense.
My point was this: Just as your beliefs are not shaken by the fact that others view them as nonsense, my beliefs are also not shaken by the fact that you view them as nonsense.No. But, as Christians, I think we should have a much better understanding of what is complete nonsense than non-Christians do, so I'm not really seeing your point here.
I believe that God desires all people to be saved, just as Sacred Scripture states.God is love. He's not obligated to make salvation available for anyone, but a God who is love (1 John 4:8) would not just offer or give salvation to some without offering salvation to all people. Otherwise, you turn Him into a God who is love and hate (or indifference).
I agree. They have done nothing to make them guilty. But their parents may have (see below).What have they done that would make them guilty and be sent to hell? Nothing.
Well, there might be a reason.So, a God who is love sending someone to hell for no reason would be contradictory.
I believe that God desires all people to be saved, just as Sacred Scripture states.
The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who gave a wedding feast for his son, and sent his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding feast, but they would not come.Not only that but in Isaiah God says that he gets everything he wants. However, most Christians reject God's word and believe that God is too incompetent to get what he wants and that Jesus is a failure and that the Gates of Hell do in fact prevail!
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