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If evolution is true

Astrid

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With a new source of energy we would need to build out and sustain the infrastructure that could utilize it.
Michael Greer had an article this week on EcoSophia.net A Prayer for Nonbelievers that explains the Limits to Growth and resources decline that we are already experiencing.

The following graph, that was predicted in1972 shows were we are today and going to 2100

ltg-standard1-300x191.jpg

I don't see how any serious thinker can avoid seeing there's
going to be a terrible reckoning ahead.
 
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inquiring mind

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Just some thoughts and fuel for discussion. To begin, once you buy into and accept the idea of macroevolution then it does become very sound reasoning. You have microevolution (adaptative smaller changes) to back you up, so you reason there is no other way, except through complete change (macroevolution) given vast amounts of time, pointing out that we are still changing. But, that could only be because microevolution is always happening. You convince yourself that ‘who we are’ has to be through this very slow change, and that our branch ‘threading the eye of the needle’ to humanity as we know it had to happen, otherwise you wouldn’t believe it either… because a faster change would even be magical nonsense to you. TOE does nail it, testifying to humanity’s reasoning capability, even to the point of making people doubt their faith, and the Bible. It is a believable ‘scientific’ mechanism of change for our existence from lower life forms we know existed before us. It had to be that way, you say, and filling in the gaps is okay, because there is no better or even another ‘logical way.’ Then we begin to think we understand ‘time and space’ and the eons, and that it is all predictable according to our understanding. And, for some all by chance… with no need for God.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Just some thoughts and fuel for discussion. To begin, once you buy into and accept the idea of macroevolution then it does become very sound reasoning. You have microevolution (adaptative smaller changes) to back you up, so you reason there is no other way, except through complete change (macroevolution) given vast amounts of time, pointing out that we are still changing. But, that could only be because microevolution is always happening. You convince yourself that ‘who we are’ has to be through this very slow change, and that our branch ‘threading the eye of the needle’ to humanity as we know it had to happen, otherwise you wouldn’t believe it either… because a faster change would even be magical nonsense to you. TOE does nail it, testifying to humanity’s reasoning capability, even to the point of making people doubt their faith, and the Bible. It is a believable ‘scientific’ mechanism of change for our existence from lower life forms we know existed before us. It had to be that way, you say, and filling in the gaps is okay, because there is no better or even another ‘logical way.’ Then we begin to think we understand ‘time and space’ and the eons, and that it is all predictable according to our understanding. And, for some all by chance… with no need for God.

If you feel that evolution is a challenge to your faith, then the problem lies not with evolution but with your faith, plain and simple. Especially if you specifically try and put it so that the Bible is in some kind of trouble.
 
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If you feel that evolution is a challenge to your faith, then the problem lies not with evolution but with your faith, plain and simple. Especially if you specifically try and put it so that the Bible is in some kind of trouble.
No such problem for me. ‘Why’ would a lower animal break from its natural instincts in such a grand way as you suggest (with the ‘how’ mechanism)? ‘Why’ is the question, why only one, if we weren’t human to begin with?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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No such problem for me. ‘Why’ would a lower animal break from its natural instincts in such a grand way as you suggest (with the ‘how’ mechanism)? ‘Why’ is the question, why only one, if we weren’t human to begin with?

Why is a very philosophical question, not a biological question. Also, really, instincts are really given over to something akin to mysticism. Nearly everything an animal does is based on either instinct, or a reaction to something. Even we humans act on instinct for a lot of our actions. It's just that our instincts are a reaction to a new and changed environment.
 
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Why is a very philosophical question, not a biological question. Also, really, instincts are really given over to something akin to mysticism. Nearly everything an animal does is based on either instinct, or a reaction to something. Even we humans act on instinct for a lot of our actions. It's just that our instincts are a reaction to a new and changed environment.
Come on... you can't tell me there is never an element of 'why' in scientific thought???
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Come on... you can't tell me there is never an element of 'why' in scientific thought???

There is. But the question of 'why' humans evolved is really the answer of how we evolved. Savvy?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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You can easily blend them, if you don't stop very long at 'why?'

But sometimes the answer is simply "Because it happened". Not everything has to have reams and reams of information for it. Sometimes, stuff does just happen because it happened. And that is as honest an answer as you'll get from me without me swearing.
 
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But sometimes the answer is simply "Because it happened". Not everything has to have reams and reams of information for it. Sometimes, stuff does just happen because it happened. And that is as honest an answer as you'll get from me without me swearing.
Well, we don't want that.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Well, we don't want that.

But yeah, as I tried to say, the 'why' in evolution isn't really that important. The 'how' is more important. Stuff does sometimes just happen.
 
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But yeah, as I tried to say, the 'why' in evolution isn't really that important. The 'how' is more important. Stuff does sometimes just happen.
I can see that, but in the case macroevolution that's because you've bought it... no need for why.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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I can see that, but in the case macroevolution that's because you've bought it... no need for why.

Except that it's not. You don't know me from Adam so you can't say squat about what I know.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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True, I only know what you say.

And I also see you using very spurious language and also language that is honestly... just wrong. To say that I've 'bought' something is for me to have bought into a lie, which I have not. Evolution is a fact of science, like it or not. That includes microevolution - the changes within a species in response to environmental pressures, and macroevolution - the emergence of a new species due to said microevolution.
 
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And I also see you using very spurious language and also language that is honestly... just wrong. To say that I've 'bought' something is for me to have bought into a lie, which I have not. Evolution is a fact of science, like it or not. That includes microevolution - the changes within a species in response to environmental pressures, and macroevolution - the emergence of a new species due to said microevolution.
Look, I know I don't make these conversations easy for you. I don't just throw you a Bible verse and evaporate. But, I do try to avoid excessive writing with my terminology... I think you get my meaning, but certainly nothing offensive meant.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Look, I know I don't make these conversations easy for you. I don't just throw you a Bible verse and evaporate. But, I do try to avoid excessive writing with my terminology... I think you get my meaning, but certainly nothing offensive meant.

No, it's not about the conversation being easy or difficult. It's you using loaded words. To say that I've 'bought into' evolution means that, to your mind, I've bought into a lie, since that is what the term is used for massively.
Just don't use terminology that leads you to say that I'm buying into something false. Just say 'accepting' or 'accept', which is the truth. I accept the science of evolution being true because I see it to be true. Savvy?
 
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No, it's not about the conversation being easy or difficult. It's you using loaded words. To say that I've 'bought into' evolution means that, to your mind, I've bought into a lie, since that is what the term is used for massively.
Just don't use terminology that leads you to say that I'm buying into something false. Just say 'accepting' or 'accept', which is the truth. I accept the science of evolution being true because I see it to be true. Savvy?
And after making a very good case... then you throw 'savvy' at me???
 
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