If Evolution is true, aren't parasites to Evolution inevitable?

[the iconoclast]

Obviously not. The concept of that kind of truth is that it exists regardless of whether I find it.


You can't be totally certain, all you've got are human senses to detect and a human mind to interpret.




I'm not sure what you point here is.




I was considering the actual beginning of space and time.


Seems like a reasonable possibility.


I'm not certain. I just analysed my beliefs and found that I didn't have good reason to hold them and abandoned them.


Yes.


The genetic patterns we can demonstrate to be created by mutations and reproductions branching create a tree structure as they continue.

If we conjecture that the similarities and differences of life are due to being related and having developed and diverged from common ancestors there would be a particular kind of genetic pattern in the existing life forms. There is, so it makes an excellent conformation of the theory of evolution.


They are also prone to error. But independent repetition should reduce the scale of the error.


I think atheism is probably impossible to confirm.

My atheism is merely that I haven't been presented by any convincing reasons to assume the existence of God in particular, and the entire supernatural realm in general.


I was a Christian as a child and believed, prayed and attempted to live to the standards of my faith. I never received any confirmation of my belief and eventually abandoned it.

Hey hey my dear im back

Hey @Kylie, hey @sfs, hey @Speedwell and to anyone else.

Dudes ive been busy lately, im in a new band!!! Yep, please excuse my delay i will get back to you all shortly.

Dont worry the fun will be back.

Hey shem thank you for your reply, ive read it and looks like we have a lot to discuss. Cya soon my dear.

Dont worry kylie my proud atheist friend, i aint going no where yet, just a little preoccupied. Wow you come here alot by the way.

God bless you all

 

[the iconoclast]

Obviously not. The concept of that kind of truth is that it exists regardless of whether I find it.

Hey hey shem my dear hope you in it for the long haul. My motivation is high

Heads up this is going take months of back and forth

So you have not found any truth that is void of judgement and opinion?

How does one know when a truth is void of judgement and opinion?

You can't be totally certain, all you've got are human senses to detect and a human mind to interpret.

We can never be totally certain. If i stole from you how could you be certain something was stolen from you?

I'm not sure what you point here is.

Im trying to get a sense of how you respond to things. Ive taken note of your reply and it may come up in the future.

I was considering the actual beginning of space and time.

Cool so when you talk about the beginning of space and time, you would not be surprised if it is literally impossible to discover the exact nature of those events.

Your reply has been noted.

Seems like a reasonable possibility.

Cool.

I'm not certain. I just analysed my beliefs and found that I didn't have good reason to hold them and abandoned them.

If you are not certain then how can you make a decision? What were some of these reasons why you abandoned?

Yes.

Well dont be shy. Lets back track a bit

Icon - "What is an example of a precise and repeatable proof for evolution?"

Shem - "The pattern of genetic relatedness of living creatures matching what we would expect if they were a giant branching family."

Icon - "Individuals who belong to the same family or the same population are related because of their shared ancestry."

Shem - "yes"

So now it is time gor you to present your evidence and you do so next - kinda.

The genetic patterns we can demonstrate to be created by mutations and reproductions branching create a tree structure as they continue.

Could you provide some more detail and show me how this is so?

If we conjecture that the similarities and differences of life are due to being related and having developed and diverged from common ancestors there would be a particular kind of genetic pattern in the existing life forms. There is, so it makes an excellent conformation of the theory of evolution.

Could you show me what proof you have to back up this point?

They are also prone to error. But independent repetition should reduce the scale of the error.

So you have trust and faith in independent repetition?

I think atheism is probably impossible to confirm.

Then why do you call toirself atheist?

My atheism is merely that I haven't been presented by any convincing reasons to assume the existence of God in particular, and the entire supernatural realm in general.

What would convince me? You know what you wont accept, what will you accept?

I was a Christian as a child and believed, prayed and attempted to live to the standards of my faith. I never received any confirmation of my belief and eventually abandoned it.

So you have not done any tests and you do not know what you consider untested?

Cheers my dear

 

[Shemjaza]

Hey hey shem my dear hope you in it for the long haul. My motivation is high

Heads up this is going take months of back and forth

So you have not found any truth that is void of judgement and opinion?

How does one know when a truth is void of judgement and opinion?

It can't be done.

I've taken it as an axiom that objective truth exists, but anything experienced or recorded has necessarily been filtered through a fallible human.

We can never be totally certain. If i stole from you how could you be certain something was stolen from you?

Certain in an absolute sense, I couldn't. We need to be clear about how we use terms and context.

In an absolute sense I know nothing that isn't filtered by my senses and muddied by my memory... however in the regular colloquial sense, I can be "certain" that the iconoclast stole my wallet because I saw them take it.

Im trying to get a sense of how you respond to things. Ive taken note of your reply and it may come up in the future.

Fair enough.

I was honestly perplexed by the statement, not trying to be evasive.

Cool so when you talk about the beginning of space and time, you would not be surprised if it is literally impossible to discover the exact nature of those events.

Your reply has been noted.

I feel like it's a good example of something that is truly mysterious.

If you are not certain then how can you make a decision? What were some of these reasons why you abandoned?

I'm not certain of the exact triggers. I had been exploring philosophy and taking the time to deeply analyse my reasons for believing. I was trying see if my beliefs actually made sense to me when I really thought them through.

My atheism doesn't have real conviction. It's just the acknowledgement that I don't have a positive belief in any deity.

Well dont be shy. Lets back track a bit

Icon - "What is an example of a precise and repeatable proof for evolution?"

Shem - "The pattern of genetic relatedness of living creatures matching what we would expect if they were a giant branching family."

Icon - "Individuals who belong to the same family or the same population are related because of their shared ancestry."

Shem - "yes"

So now it is time gor you to present your evidence and you do so next - kinda.

Okay.

Can you point out where you have doubts?

Do you accept that generic material is passed down from parent to child in both humans and animals?

Do you accept that genetic patterns can be used to predict how closely related different humans are? (Paternity tests and ancestry probabilities).

Could you provide some more detail and show me how this is so?

It's a consequence of inheritance and groups separating and changing independently.

It also works for other things as well, for example languages. 2000 years ago a whole lot of people across western Europe spoke Latin... but when the empire fell travel and communication across Europe was reduced so each language changed slightly year, by year until they are almost unintelligible to each other.

Genetically you can see this change happen at a rapid pace when humans force the process to speed up with selective breeding... that's how you get chihuahuas, great danes and corgis from wolves in a few thousand years.

Could you show me what proof you have to back up this point?

Wikipedia has a nice summary of the most modern study:
Computational phylogenetics

So you have trust and faith in independent repetition?

No, I'm convinced that it's a functional tool.

Then why do you call toirself atheist?

Because atheism only the statement of what one does not believe. The universe is vast and strange, some deity might exist, I can't prove that it's impossible, but I remain unconvinced.

What would convince me? You know what you wont accept, what will you accept?

I honestly don't know.

So you have not done any tests and you do not know what you consider untested?

To test something it really helps to have a clear idea about what I'm trying to test.

A lot of the time people suggest that belief will come once you already believe that it's true... which isn't very logical.

The concept of religion and God is deeply fascinating to me, but I just haven't seen a reason to believe that it's true.

So I guess I've tried the most important test:
"Do you believe that God exists?"
"I don't."