If evolution is not valid science, somebody should tell the scientists.

[Late_Cretaceous]

Here is a brief list of major universities that have entire departments (within their Science Faculties) devoted to teaching evolutionary thoery and conducting innovative research into evolution.

Are all these scientists and graduate students grossly misled, or just plain stupid? Maybe it's a conspiracy?

And if it wasn't good science, don't you think all the other scientists in other departments point that out ot them?

Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, Princeton University
www.eeb.princeton.edu/

Harvard University - Department of Organismic & Evolutionary Biology
www.oeb.harvard.edu/

Cornell universtiy Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
www.eeb.cornell.edu

Rice Universtiy Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
eeb.rice.edu/

University of California, Irvine Dept of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
ecoevo.bio.uci.edu

UCLA Dept of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
www.eeb.ucla.edu/



Yale Department of Ecology & Evolutionary Biology
www.eeb.yale.edu

The Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
eebweb.arizona.edu/

Oxford, Evolutionary BIology Group
evolve.zoo.ox.ac.uk

University of Tennessee, Dept of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
eeb.bio.utk.edu/

Tulane University Dept of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
www.tulane.edu

Brown University Dept of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
www.brown.edu/Departments/EEB/

 

[Vedant]

Evolution is a valid science. Actually, evolution has been observed in the lifetime of a human being, and happens all the time. The problem that people have is that there are gaps in the complete theory of evolution. It's easy to understand that all mammals came from the same ancestor. However, linking a mammal to a tree is much more difficult. The transition animals are very difficult to find (i.e. mammal/reptiles). The other part is how the first organism actually began.

Anyone that completely denies evolution is either stupid or ignorant, because parts of the theory have actually been observed during the lifetime of a human in the past century. That is, like 50 years, not eons. There are numerous case studies about this, and new species of animals have been created as a result of human activity.

The broad implication of evolution is harder to stomache since we really can't tell yet.

Anyway, I can't believe that it's the 21st century, and we still have religious people trying to fight scientists, when time after time after time again, they've made discoveries that have changed our world. People need to just chill out about it.

The earth goes around the sun. Not the other way around.

 

[artybloke]

However, linking a mammal to a tree is much more difficult.

That's probably because a mammal is a type of animal, not a type of plant.

You need to go much further back in the nested hierarchies to the division between plants and animals (and other Kingdoms) for which there probably isn't much evidence, as it probably didn't involve anything that could be fossilised.

The transition animals are very difficult to find (i.e. mammal/reptiles).

There are loads of transitional animals. Although: define tranistional. YEC keep moving the goalposts here.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

I would like to hear some original answers from YECs to this question. So, please no references to "professing themselves to be wise they became foolish", "in the end times many will be decieved", or "I have a list of a few scientists who don't like evolution", or my personal favorite "but those are all liberal schools".

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

Reptile- Mammal evolution

http://genesispanthesis.tripod.com/fossils/rept_mam.html
http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/ce06.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~Cambrian/Reptile-Mammal

 

[muaxiong]

"If evolution is not valid science, somebody should tell the scientists."

Think of all those people who would be unemployed!

 

[nolidad]

I would like to hear some original answers from YECs to this question. So, please no references to "professing themselves to be wise they became foolish", "in the end times many will be decieved", or "I have a list of a few scientists who don't like evolution", or my personal favorite "but those are all liberal schools".

Well I will try to answer some of your arguments. I am a dyed in the wool unabashed, unashamed YEC who beleives that is the true science of origins.

First off nobody I know has a problem as to what has been designated "micro-evolution" both creation and evolution predict them in their models. It is macro evolution or where a fish becomes a lizard which becomes a bird over 30-40 million years where there is no empirical but on ly theoretical evidence.

To answer one objection I saw-- speciation is not evolution.

Mendels law shows that predefinied already existent genetics within a creature can produce a new species of that creature. Before we attrribute something to random chaotic natural selection by mutation we need to rule out diet, prexistent genetics, and even the psossibility of 2 differing species of the same kind reporduced and made a third species. Until those are specifically answered and ruled out we have no evolution.


artybloke says:

There are loads of transitional animals. Although: define tranistional. YEC keep moving the goalposts here.

Well there are not really--just opinion and interpretation. The most classic transitional is archyoptryx who by leading evolutionary ornithologists declare it a true bird with unique features.

We have lizards and birds but no bizards and lirds! Show me a lizard transitioning tro a bird in evidence and then we can diewcuss true transitions.

Shoiw me the ape to man transitionals that are more than just half a skull and I will debunk them for you.

 

[Jig]

Here is a brief list of major universities that have entire departments (within their Science Faculties) devoted to teaching evolutionary thoery and conducting innovative research into evolution.

Are all these scientists and graduate students grossly misled, or just plain stupid? Maybe it's a conspiracy?

And if it wasn't good science, don't you think all the other scientists in other departments point that out ot them?

Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, Princeton University
www.eeb.princeton.edu/

Harvard University - Department of Organismic & Evolutionary Biology
www.oeb.harvard.edu/

Cornell universtiy Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
www.eeb.cornell.edu

Rice Universtiy Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
eeb.rice.edu/

University of California, Irvine Dept of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
ecoevo.bio.uci.edu

UCLA Dept of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
www.eeb.ucla.edu/



Yale Department of Ecology & Evolutionary Biology
www.eeb.yale.edu

The Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
eebweb.arizona.edu/

Oxford, Evolutionary BIology Group
evolve.zoo.ox.ac.uk

University of Tennessee, Dept of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
eeb.bio.utk.edu/

Tulane University Dept of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
www.tulane.edu

Brown University Dept of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
www.brown.edu/Departments/EEB/

The overwhelming majority of those professors teaching such science believe that the naturalistic process of evolution explains life totally. They see no need for a higher being such as God. They believe this because one can explain away God with such theories. These same schools that teach evolution, do not teach the existence of God in those courses. In fact, if you go and ask the professors that teach these courses it would be rare to find one that actually does believe in a god.

These universties are teaching atheism through evolution and your approving...how very sad.

 

[random_guy]

The overwhelming majority of those professors teaching such science believe that the naturalistic process of evolution explains life totally. They see no need for a higher being such as God. They believe this because one can explain away God with such theories. These same schools that teach evolution, do not teach the existence of God in those courses. In fact, if you go and ask the professors that teach these courses it would be rare to find one that actually does believe in a god.

These universties are teaching atheism through evolution and your approving...how very sad.

I have no idea where you get this information, but nice job driving a wedge between science and religion. I'm sure forcing people to chose between Christ and science is a great way to convert people.

FYI, Baylor University, the largest and oldest Baptist university in the world, says this:

"Evolution, a foundational principle of modern biology, is supported by overwhelming scientific evidence and is accepted by the vast majority of scientists. Because it is fundamental to the understanding of modern biology, the faculty in the Biology Department at Baylor University, Waco, TX, teach evolution throughout the biology curriculum. We are in accordance with the American Association for Advancement of Science's statement on evolution. We are a science department, so we do not teach alternative hypotheses or philosophically deduced theories that cannot be tested rigorously."

I'm sure a Baptist university would be filled with atheist and have an atheistic agenda to turn people away from God.

 

[Jig]

I have no idea where you get this information, but nice job driving a wedge between science and religion. I'm sure forcing people to chose between Christ and science is a great way to convert people.

FYI, Baylor University, the largest and oldest Baptist university in the world, says this:

I'm sure a Baptist university would be filled with atheist and have an atheistic agenda to turn people away from God.

What?? lol

Do you really think most the sudents who go to Baylor are actually Baptist (or even Christians for that matter)?

I'm sure there is an equal mix of all kinds of beliefs there. Just like any other college.

Are you also trying to say all the professors there are Christian? That would be wrong.

Baylor teaches evolution...no where in the class is the existence of God made important or even really plausible.

I'm sure many students who came into those clsses as Christians left feeling unsure.

 

[Dannager]

What?? lol

Do you really think most the sudents who go to Baylor are actually Baptist (or even Christians for that matter)?

I'm sure there is an equal mix of all kinds of beliefs there. Just like any other college.

Are you also trying to say all the professors there are Christian? That would be wrong.

Baylor teaches evolution...no where in the class is the existence of God made important or even really plausible.

I'm sure many students who came into those clsses as Christians left feeling unsure.

Uhhh...why would any class on biology talk about God? A biology classroom really isn't the place for philosophical discussion of that nature.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

The overwhelming majority of those professors teaching such science believe that the naturalistic process of evolution explains life totally. They see no need for a higher being such as God. They believe this because one can explain away God with such theories. These same schools that teach evolution, do not teach the existence of God in those courses. In fact, if you go and ask the professors that teach these courses it would be rare to find one that actually does believe in a god.

These universties are teaching atheism through evolution and your approving...how very sad.

You made a bet. You're on. Now back up your assertion that all these scientists are athiests.

 

[Dannager]

You made a bet. You're on. Now back up your assertion that all these scientists are athiests.

What do you think, time for more e-mails straight to the professors themselves? I attend the University of California, Irvine. It wouldn't be too difficult to sit in on an evolutionary biology lecture or two.

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

According the Sigma Xi. , a professional society that was "founded in 1886 to honor excellence in scientific investigation and encourage a sense of companionship and cooperation among researchers in all fields of science and engineering."

In a survey where 3300 American scientists who responded ,

* half participate in religious activities regularly.
* 43% of Ph.D. scientists attend church (while 44% of the American public do)

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

To answer one objection I saw-- speciation is not evolution.

Well holy cow, now we are not just moving goal posts around we are moving the entire soccer field about. Speciation is not evolution, since when?

Can you back that up ? Or, are you just acknowledging that "yeah speciation happens ok, but I still refuse to accept evolution".


Hehe. I just did a google seach on " speciation is not evolution." it seems that a lot of creationist websites are now making that claim. All I can say is WOW. I suppose that if you start to loose your arguement you simply re-define the terms. Can you imagine a defense lawer doing that in cort "But your Honor, killing a human being is NOT murder, so my client must be aquitted on all murder charges because although he did kill those people in cold blood he didn't murder them". Maybe next time I get a parking ticket I can just redefine the term "parking" and claim that while my car was stopped there and I wasn't in my car for 4 hours it wasn't actually parker there". How about next time I go to a restaurant I will just redefine "money" to mean that if I write $45.50 on the napkin with my wife's lipsitck it counts as "money". The next time my wife gets annoyed with me because I forgot something on the list from grocery shopping I will just redefine it - "Oh no Honey, I didnt forget the "sugar", because these chocolate bars I bought count as "sugar" according to my special definition."

Who else can come up with some cheap redefinitions of terms to suit their purposes.

 

[random_guy]

What?? lol

Do you really think most the sudents who go to Baylor are actually Baptist (or even Christians for that matter)?

I'm sure there is an equal mix of all kinds of beliefs there. Just like any other college.

Are you also trying to say all the professors there are Christian? That would be wrong.

Baylor teaches evolution...no where in the class is the existence of God made important or even really plausible.

I'm sure many students who came into those clsses as Christians left feeling unsure.

Remember, you're the one claiming that schools that teach evolution believe that evolution is all that's needed and God is not required. Do you think a Baptist university would be supporting of an atheistic agenda? You made the claim, why don't you back it up?

Gee, just for fun, here's biography of one of the "atheist" biology professors at Baylor.

In the department, I serve as an adviser for Baylor's chapter of Beta Beta Beta, the national honor society for biology, and as the chair of the scholarships and awards. My professional memberships include American Association for the Advancement of Science, American Society for Photogrammetry and Remote Sensing, American Geophysical Union, Ecological Society of America, American Institute of Biological Sciences, and the Sigma Xi. My family and I have been active members of St. Jerome's parish since 1998. Personally, I am an outdoor enthusiast, enjoying camping, fly-fishing, and downhill skiing.

Darn those atheist professors! I love how so many Creationists continue to distort reality so that their side might "win".

Just to make a point, here's another one of the biology professors at Baylor:

Additional Info – Married to Norma Tandy (Physician Assistant retired); 4 children; Continue to maintain full time medical practice with Waco Otolaryngology Associates; Elder Redeemer Presbyterian Church (www.redeemerwaco.org)

And of course, the most evil of the atheistic professors...

My wife, Virginia, and I assist with the Crane Scholars Program, which seeks to prepare the next generation of Christian professors. It is an intellectual community of Christian undergraduates that meets in our house every other Friday for dinners and book discussions. We are also small group leaders at Antioch Community Church. Virginia has been an instructor in the English Department for several years, but now that we have five young children, she has taken a "sabbatical." We have three birth children and two children adopted from China.

These EACists are so deep, they pentrate the very core of Christianity. For any lurkers out there, take a very close look at the side of Creationists. It's not too hard to realize they know not what they claim.

 

[Dannager]

It looks like it would be wrong to assume that students are not hearing about God in biology classrooms at Baylor because their professors are biased. It looks like it would be correct to assume that students are not hearing about God in biology classrooms at Baylor because even their Christian professors know God is not a valid topic in a science classroom.

 

[Dannager]

This just in: http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/02/20/science.evolution.reut/index.html

 

[shernren]

Baylor teaches evolution...no where in the class is the existence of God made important or even really plausible.

I'm sure many students who came into those clsses as Christians left feeling unsure.

And I'm assuming that you have personally sat in a Baylor's classroom through a class on evolution before being able to confirm these things? Because if not, dear friend, you do not have the evidence to support what you have said, and it wouldn't be a stretch to say that false testimony has been given here, which breaks both the Ten Commandments and civil law.

Unsubstantiated statements are dangerous.

 

[shernren]

Well holy cow, now we are not just moving goal posts around we are moving the entire soccer field about. Speciation is not evolution, since when?

Give it ten years and they'll be confidently saying "But evolution is not evolution!"