If every man knows ...

[Truth in Faith]

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse."

It is interesting that every man knows God from his Creation, whether he acknowledges God or not. And, yes, evolutionts can come back at me, saying, "That pre-supposes the existence of God and historicity/truth of the Bible." You can say that, but it could also be interpreted as holding down the truth in unrighteousness.

 

[seebs]

It strikes me as Paul speaking in hyperbole again. Honestly, this comes across mostly as arrogance and smug self-righteousness, rather than any kind of edifying discussion.

People to whom the existance of God is self-evident are often inclined to cruelty and contempt towards those less fortunate in such matters; it is an ugly thing.

 

[PhantomLlama]

Ah! Good old 'they all know theres a god really, but dont want to admit it' has resurfaced.

 

[Freodin]

Yes, basically this is a non-argument. It is equally valid to state: Every man knows that there is no god, but many deny this obvious truth.

This statement may not have this authority of age that Paul´s has - but I assure you, it is true. I say so, and I cannot lie.

 

[Melange_Thief]

Why don't people get this stuff? Atheists don't "reject" God because they don't like the idea. Most atheists find no evidence. I, personally, take nothing on faith, so I don't trust the Bible. I trust true non-fiction books because most of them can be backed up by real life, period.

 

[Praxiteles]

And this has what to do with evolution, precisely?

 

[Orihalcon]

Yesterday at 11:57 PM Freodin said this in Post #4

Yes, basically this is a non-argument. It is equally valid to state: Every man knows that there is no god, but many deny this obvious truth.

This statement may not have this authority of age that Paul´s has - but I assure you, it is true. I say so, and I cannot lie.

wow praise our new prophet, he's obviously not lying because he says he's not

wow, the world exists, therefore god created it?  i hope not all theists are like that, they'd simply be amazed by my limited card-shuffling skills

 

[lucaspa]

Today at 02:19 PM Truth in Faith said this in Post #1

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse."

It is interesting that every man knows God from his Creation, whether he acknowledges God or not. And, yes, evolutionts can come back at me, saying, "That pre-supposes the existence of God and historicity/truth of the Bible." You can say that, but it could also be interpreted as holding down the truth in unrighteousness.

When you say "evolutionists" you really mean atheists.  Those evolutionists who are theists agree with you.  They see that God created by evolution.

I will grant that the existence of the universe and that it has this order rather than some other order does justify the hypothesis of a God as Creator.  However, all other study of the physical universe does not find anything compelling to say that the physical universe was created by God.

Yes, creationists believe this is so.  And so do theistic evolutionists.  I would not try to change their beliefs, but you have gone over the line and tried to claim that the universe is "proof" of the existence of God.  That claim simply isn't justified by the evidence.

 

[lucaspa]

Today at 07:17 PM Melange_Thief said this in Post #5

I, personally, take nothing on faith, 

I suspect you take a lot of things on faith in your life.  For instance, you take it on faith that you exist and you are sane.

In order to be an atheist, you take it on faith that "natural" = without deity.

 

[chickenman]

..I think i've become desensitized to idiocy

 

[Nathan Poe]

Today at 07:59 PM chickenman said this in Post #10

..I think i've become desensitized to idiocy

Please share your secret. If I read one more moronic thread I'm going to bang my forehead into my keyboard to numb the pain

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

Is this even a serious attempt at a discussion? Throw out some misguided and meaningless accusation, and try to pass that off as a debate. First of all, do not confuse "athiest" with "evolutionist". Secondly, there is no point in trying to shame athiests. I cannot even understand what difference it makes to you what someeone else believes - if anything at all.

 

[Memory's Flame]

WOW... This is AMUSING...

People who do not believe in our God, usually have their reasons... and it is NOT that they just don't want to admit it...

 

[Late_Cretaceous]

So, why concern yourself with what someone else believes. I could care less if someone believes in God or not. Smugness is very unbecomming someone who calls themselves Christian.

 

[webboffin]

Maybe non christians are just as smug with themselves. They pretend to know all the answers and when they can't answer it we get the old, "well science does not go into that" routine.

 

[Arikay]

LoL Web.
Scientists dont claim to know everything. That is actually why Evolution will never become a "law" and can never trully be "proved."

Quite frankly, there arent too many "smug" atheists here.

 

[notto]

20th March 2003 at 01:19 PM Truth in Faith said this in Post #1

It is interesting that every man knows God from his Creation, whether he acknowledges God or not. And, yes, evolutionts can come back at me, saying, "That pre-supposes the existence of God and historicity/truth of the Bible." You can say that, but it could also be interpreted as holding down the truth in unrighteousness.

Truth in Faith,

Are you a theistic evolutionist or do you deny what God has shown us in his creation. The evidence that supports an old earth and evolution of man is clearly laid out in this creation to be studied just like the scripture says, telling us clearly how God created . This does not pre-suppose the historicity/truth of the bible and in many ways contradicts a literal approach to the scriptures of Genesis. The existence of God of course is still dependend on faith, but the evidence in creation is clear. God reveals how he created with evidence left in the creation.

 

[webboffin]

Are you laughing at me Arikay?

Oh come on! Not many smug atheists?

 

[Received]

This verse clearly is in reference to the arrogants of the world who will have nothing with searching for truth, or God, and are content with their indecency, and consider those who are otherwise as idiotic. Honestly...if the complete, rational understanding of God were embedded within every one of us, every person who ever had the itch to search for true all of a sudden would suddenly be converted to Christianity. No; the bible says that eternity is set in our HEARTS, and not our minds (Eccl. 3:11). It is Hell enough convincing the head what the heart believes. As Lewis said, "The heart never takes the place of the head, but it can, and should, obey it." Paul makes two mentionings as to why people should not become rebellious againts God in this passage: conscience and the cosmos. But the conscience is a bit tricky, for the only way to know if your understanding of right and wrong - deep down inside - is part of an objective, absolute law is if you are a social being and know your philosophy. The cosmos seems a bit stronger claim, but, if we take the orthodox view of this, the blind man stranded on an Island somewhere in the pacific that is curious about truth is pretty much screwed.

 

[Taffsadar]

Yesterday at 07:18 AM webboffin said this in Post #15

Maybe non christians are just as smug with themselves. They pretend to know all the answers and when they can't answer it we get the old, "well science does not go into that" routine.

You just answered yourself. If you claim that you doesn't know becuase "science doesn't go into that" then you can't claim to know it all either....