If Ellen White wasn't a true prophet then God does not exist?

[Pythons]

Is the views presented by the Seventh-day Adventist in this video.....
...The general view of members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church?
...If in the future it's proven by the SDA Church that Ellen White was NOT a prophet.
...Does the baby go out along with the bath water?

YouTube - ‪If Ellen White is not a prophet, then God does not exist‬‏

 

[Stryder06]

The guy's stance is essentially that if prophecy is false then God doesn't exist, which is true.

 

[Joe67]

1 Kings 22:19-23
19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee. KJV

The leading false prophet to Ahab wore horns, like the false prophet Lamb-like beast of Revelation 12.

1 Kings 22:10-12
10 And the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat the king of Judah sat each on his throne, having put on their robes, in a void place in the entrance of the gate of Samaria; and all the prophets prophesied before them.

11 And Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah made him horns of iron: and he said, Thus saith the LORD, With these shalt thou push the Syrians, until thou have consumed them.

12 And all the prophets prophesied so, saying, Go up to Ramoth-gilead, and prosper: for the LORD shall deliver it into the king's hand. KJV

Prophets of unconditional absolute victory and prosperity in war are liars. War always ends in wrath and loss to all. It must needs be.

The true prophet waits upon the will of the Lord through his Voice.

Dan 3:16-18
16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.

17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.

18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up. KJV

True prophecy is dependent upon the Sovereign will of God for the material outcome of human events.

He will have mercy upon whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardens.

Fear God and give glory to him for it is his judgment. We are unprofitable servants. He owes us nothing in return for our service. He has promised that he will do what is right.

May he deliver us from thinking to be his counselor.

The Lord does send lying spirits in the mouth of false prophets to try us us.

Remember the old man who prophesied against the altar at the golden calf of Bethel. He believed a lying prophet and disobeyed the instructions that the Lord had given him.

Gal 1:8
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. KJV

Joe

 

[Pythons]

I was looking for confirmation that SDA's viewed Ellen's status as a prophet....
...No differently than they ( SDA's ) viewed Isaiah or any other "Bible prophet" as a prophet.
...Therefore it's been confirmed if Ellen White is proven false it would theologically require.
...That the prophets in Scripture would also be false.
...& by default, God.

This was the premise of the SDA video I posted in the O.P.....
..."If Ellen White is false than God doesn't exist".
...That is an astounding theological affirmation.

It wasn't a question for debate, just a question for discussion and deeper understanding....
...I.E. a fellowship post.

Thank you for answering the question.

Pythons

 

[Mankin]

EDIT: I see after watching this vid that he's assuming that Adventism is the correct theological position, thus if EGW isn't a prophet then God doesn't exist because the Bible supports Adventism.

Although I still feel uncomfortable with this as this puts her on the same level as the Biblical prophets and God.

 

[capnator]

My view on EGW is this.
There are only really 2 options,
1. She was either recieving Satanic help or
2. Godly help.

Why do I come to this conclusion? Well just get a database of her writings and query something like "I was shown" and you will find 1490 hits. That would mostly(if not all) be her claiming to have recieved specific instruction about a range of things from a supernatural source. The woman was constantly surrounded by a plethora of supernatural occurance, witnessed by many.. so to me there are only those 2 options, feel free to put forward another option.

Maybe you could add deluded, schizophrenic or something, but there are for my mind to many instances of Her knowing the unknowable for that to fit well.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

My view on EGW is this.
There are only really 2 options,
1. She was either recieving Satanic help or
2. Godly help.

Why do I come to this conclusion? Well just get a database of her writings and query something like "I was shown" and you will find 1490 hits. That would mostly(if not all) be her claiming to have recieved specific instruction about a range of things from a supernatural source. The woman was constantly surrounded by a plethora of supernatural occurance, witnessed by many.. so to me there are only those 2 options, feel free to put forward another option.

Maybe you could add deluded, schizophrenic or something, but there are for my mind to many instances of Her knowing the unknowable for that to fit well.

Good point... the evidence would therefore point to her being inspired by God as she did not detract from the scriptures at all, which is what satan would have attempted to do. Her writings exalt Jesus and call our attention to His Righteousness as our salvation.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

What an amazing piece of sophistry that video is. So the 2300 day prophecy is ultimately fulfilled in the appearance of Ellen White in a church which says the 2300 day prophecy pointed to the cleansing of the heavenly temple. So therefore the denomination is the remnant because they hold to a prophet who taught the 2300 day to the investigative judgment in heaven. So if you believe the prophet then you can't believe this guys interpretation of things which is to believe the prophet because she arrived on the scene after 1844 and was viewed as a prophet.

So sincere and so completely deluded.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

What an amazing piece of sophistry that video is. So the 2300 day prophecy is ultimately fulfilled in the appearance of Ellen White in a church which says the 2300 day prophecy pointed to the cleansing of the heavenly temple. So therefore the denomination is the remnant because they hold to a prophet who taught the 2300 day to the investigative judgment in heaven. So if you believe the prophet then you can't believe this guys interpretation of things which is to believe the prophet because she arrived on the scene after 1844 and was viewed as a prophet.

So sincere and so completely deluded.

Thank you for stopping by and taking an interest in our deluded doctrines... funny how people are drawn to Adventism even though they scoff at our beliefs. Does this happen to other denominations? Do people like Pythons, Argy and others go to the Mormon or Jehovah Witness rooms and scoff at them? Or are we special?....

 

[Revelation 14:6-12]

...So sincere and so completely deluded.

Hi,

Many in the days of Noah, surrounded that which he was building, came to see the man who was preparing for an event no man had ever seen nor witnessed, even heard the preaching of this man of righteousness. They knew of the events that came beforehand, they knew of the prophecies of enoch which preached of the coming of the Lord in judgment at the end of days, they knew of the prophetic name of Methuselah [when he dies it will come]. They saw the faith of Noah's family as they prepared. They saw with their own eyes the miraculous event of the animals come in pairs to the Ark of their own accord, by an unseen hand. Their own hearts were pricked even for a time, but they instead decided to not heed the message sent of God to them. Noah and his family and all that was to be preserved by God went aboard the Ark at the appointed time. The door was sealed and shut by God, and nothing could open again. Probation for the whole world was closed. Yet none knew. They were all to be taken and swept away. Nothing happened for 7 days, and people partied, mocked and scoffed outside, carried on with life as if the world would continue forever, until after those 7 days. Then that which was promised of God came.

The scripture says to test the spirits, to go by the Law and the Testimony, to search the scriptures to see if these things are so.

People will call names [and I have heard and been called a lot worse than "deluded"] and that only strengthens my faith in God's word, for he said it would be so. Even as it was in the days of Noah.

Sticks and stones will break my bones and name-calling has in the past hurt me deeply, but I do not care for my loss so much, for I, a sinner, count all things loss for Christ, but I do care for your loss that you will suffer should you refuse the pleadings of the Holy Spirit. A tremendous loss it will be to reject the message of the 3 Angels to not search for yourself. Signs have and are happening, events are unfolding as prophesied. Probation in the Day of Atonement judgment is going to soon close for the whole world, and the whole world will not even recognize that the event has happened. He who is filthy let him be filty still, he who is holy let him be holy still. They will eat and drink, marry and give in marriage, as it was in the days of Noah and yet it will all be for nothing.

As it was in the days of Lot, when Lot went out of the City, sudden destruction catches the whole world off-guard. They did not watch. They did not want to hear the message sent of God [Revelation 14:6-12], that has been preached, and is even now being preached and soon to be preached even greater still [Revelation 18:1-3].

Those who are claiming to follow Christ, calling themselves Christians, are rejecting his message of warning, love and mercy.

It has been foretold that many would not receive the messages, that many would mock and deride, and so it is to be expected.

When Paul was nearly mobbed to death by the Jews and had to be carried off by Roman Soldiers, he even then asked to speak with the people. It did not matter to him that he was mocked or assaulted, and he did not return railing for railing. He only cared for their salvation. He would have forfeited his life to preach to a whole colossium, and desparately wanted to preach to them, even though they would have torn him to pieces.

People mock the investigative judgment, but this is because they do not understand the scriptures in regards to it.

The Day of Atonement foreshadowed it [Leviticus 16]. Just as the Passover, Week of Unleavend Bread, Firstfruits, Penetcost, etc all foreshadowed [Leviticus 16; Gospels, Acts, etc] events of Christ in his Ministry. The feast of Trumpets, heralding the clear warning, that Christ was coming for His people went forward - the Great Awakening. Then came the message of the Day of Atonement, Christ moving from the Holy Place in Heaven where he was minstering, into the the Most Holy Place where He even now minsters on our behalf. And just as Leviticus 16 reveals, there to do the work of the High Priest until as the book of Hebrews says, He comes out again without sin unto salvation. The Book of Revelation links these things together, for in the beginning, it reveals where Christ Jesus is, in the Holy Place of the True Tabernacle which God pitched and not man, among the candlesticks, but later a door is closed and another opened, and now Christ Jesus is seen before the very Ark in Heaven.

The Parable in Matthew 22, wherein the King comes to inspect the guests, reveals that there is a time of inspecting the people to see whether or not they have on the robe of Christ's righteousness.

Peter foretold the events:

For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17

Daniel [means God is my Judge] and his books foretell the time of judgment.

Laodicea [means a judgment/justice of the people] and in Revelation they are the last Church.

Day of Atonement [is the day of Judgment for the whole nation] and in the old testament, anyone who did not come near in repentance and searching of self and humility, did not have faith in the blood being carried into the Most Holy Place, and whose sin was not confessed to be carried in was forever cut off from Israel. In Revelation, there is a greater emphasis on Christ Jesus, the reality, the true sacrifice, the true Lamb of God who also went from the Holy Place to the Most Holy place.

Just as it was in the days of the First Advent, an Elijah message went forth, calling for repentance, to turn from sin, to herald the coming King and Saviour, and so too in these last days another Elijah message goes forth in power to the whole world to prepare them for the Second Advent.

There were many divisions in the people of God then, but only a few heeded the message of the desert preacher, which came out of the wilderness.

After the 1260 year period, God's people too came out of the wilderness and they were given a message to preach. After the 1335 and 2300 day/years came to an end and were fulfilled, a new message has gone forth.

You see, Revelation predicted the Great Disappointment, and those who would partake in it. It pinpoints the exact people who have this message [Revelation 10]:

And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. Revelation 10:11

That little book that was to be studied was part of the once sealed book of Daniel and the 2300 day/years.

The 7th Day Adventist people are prophesied by God himself to give the message to the whole world.

Revelation 14:6-12 and soon Revelation 18:1-3.

Jesus says that He is coming soon and His reward is with Him, how can His reward be with him to give to every man according as his works shall be, lest there have been judgments made on who should receive such based upon their faith and because of their faith, their outworking of it?

The Pharisees and Sadduccees and scribes, and his people etc, rulers of the synagogue mocked and derided John the Baptist, then did the same to Jesus. They were religious, they were claiming to follow the true God, but the yrefused to hear the Law and the Prophets and then refused to "hear Him".

He came unto His own, and his own knew him not. Just as the people of God then, many Christians the world over are refusing to hear, but others who never knew Christ are studying the scriptures to see whether these things are so and are accepting the 3 Angels messages going forth. A message has gone forth, "come out of her, my people" Jesus is pleading.

Just as the people of God then were not watching and waiting for the First Advent, and misunderstood the prophecies of Christ Jesus for their time, many are doing the same again even now. They look to modern day Israel, they look for a millenium of peace on earth, and yet none of it will be as they think.

So any who come to mock, come to point and to make light of the events, only fulfill prophecy and typology. There is to be no hate toward them, but there is sadness.

Perhaps you may want to ask questions instead, to see, to test.

Look at the Exodus experience and re-compare to Christianity today.

Just as Moses:

Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. Amos 3:7

So too today.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I pray those that read these words of brother Rev14 will prayerfully consider them... heed the Holy Spirit as He speaks to you.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

The door was sealed and shut by God, and nothing could open again. Probation for the whole world was closed.

And yet the concept of "the close of probation" can be found nowhere in Scripture. There is no Biblical basis for concluding that we will stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator between the close of probation and the second coming. On the contrary, Jesus Christ confirmed that He always lives to intercede for us.

People will call namesTrue.

I've been called a few myself, even here in this forum.

Probation in the Day of Atonement judgment is going to soon close for the whole world

What is the basis of this teaching?

He who is filthy let him be filty still, he who is holy let him be holy still.

The context of this statement (i.e. in Revelation 22) does not lead us to conclude that this occurs BEFORE Christ's second coming.

The gospel is a message of hope, not a message of fear.

BFA

 

[Pythons]

Thank you for stopping by and taking an interest in our deluded doctrines... funny how people are drawn to Adventism even though they scoff at our beliefs. Does this happen to other denominations? Do people like Pythons, Argy and others go to the Mormon or Jehovah Witness rooms and scoff at them? Or are we special?....

I spent a couple years on a local circuit having live discussions with the LDS at their steaks....
...And spent the approx time in seeking out Jehovah's Witnesses.
...All of a sudden they ceased knocking on my door.
...I ended up on their black list.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I spent a couple years on a local circuit having live discussions with the LDS at their steaks....
...And spent the approx time in seeking out Jehovah's Witnesses.
...All of a sudden they ceased knocking on my door.
...I ended up on their black list.

Nice to know your a multi-denominational scoffer....

 

[Pythons]

Nice to know your a multi-denominational scoffer....

The Jehovah's Witnesses at this forum generally don't communicate that much with me much any longer....
...I had a couple of "Trinity" threads in UT and that must have been it.
...Also, there are those of the "liberal" Anglican communion who would no doubt not care for my views.

I like SDA's, don't get me wrong ECR...
...It's all in the interest of deeper fellowship.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I like SDA's, don't get me wrong ECR...
...It's all in the interest of deeper fellowship.

Not to sound harsh but it seems like American gunboat diplomacy to me... the method and message overshadows the intention.

 

[Pythons]

Not to sound harsh but it seems like American gunboat diplomacy to me... the method and message overshadows the intention.

Well, false morbid teachings require 'gunboat diplomacy'.......
....There is no nice way to tell someone that a teaching which says God the Father has a rectum - is WRONG.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Well, false morbid teachings require 'gunboat diplomacy'.......
....There is no nice way to tell someone that a teaching which says God the Father has a rectum - is WRONG.

Uhhh, maybe you're confusing the Adventist room to the Proctological Doctrine room....

 

[Revelation 14:6-12]

And yet the concept of "the close of probation" can be found nowhere in Scripture. There is no Biblical basis for concluding that we will stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator between the close of probation and the second coming. On the contrary, Jesus Christ confirmed that He always lives to intercede for us.

I've been called a few myself, even here in this forum.

What is the basis of this teaching?

The context of this statement (i.e. in Revelation 22) does not lead us to conclude that this occurs BEFORE Christ's second coming.

The gospel is a message of hope, not a message of fear.

BFA

As for the "probation", a parable was given previously:

The Parable in Matthew 22:1-14, wherein the King comes to inspect the guests, reveals that there is a time of inspecting the people to see whether or not they have on the robe of Christ's righteousness. During this time of investigation, for the King to "see" the invited guests, one was found, who had come in, without the garments provided by the King. When asked why he did not wear the garments provided, the man had nothing to answer and so was cast out.

That which is given in Matthew 18:21-35 wherein a "debtor" [who owed "ten thousand talents"] was brought before the King, and yet the King was "moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt". Yet this "debtor" went out and took hold of others and treated them poorly, even though the King had compassion on him. So then this "debtor" was once again brought before the King, and that "debtor" then had to pay all the debt [2nd Death, the wages for sin].

In Matthew 24:42-51 [see also Luke 12:34-48] also reveals that those who in the time and grace of their new found life given freely unto them, who do not utilize such gifts wisely in the "fear of the Lord", and shall not keep His Commandments - these shall end up beginning "to smite [his] fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken" - these shall be lost.

In Matthew 25:1-13, the Parable of the Ten Virgins. 5 Wise and 5 Foolish. When the great Midnight Cry went forth, they all awoke, and while the wise had with them enough oil, the foolish had yet to go and try to buy at such an hour. When the Bridegroom came and the Door was shut, the foolish were left out in darkness, though they all said they knew the Bridegroom.

See Genesis 7:4-10, in the days of Noah [which Jesus directly mentions; Matthew 24:37-38; Luke 17:26-27], God gave 120 years of preaching by Noah and the Holy Spirit, and yet there was one week, 7 days from the time the door of the Ark was completely closed until the destruction of the earth by global flood.

See Genesis 18:1-33, in the days of Abraham and Lot [which Jesus also directly mentions, Luke 17:28-29] which God came down to "see" [vs 21]. The people of Sodom and Gomorrah had been saved by the providence of God and Faith of Abraham [being rescued; Genesis 14], yet they changed not their ways and lightly regarded their salvation. They had been alotted time to repent, and did not.

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. Revelation 22:10

This passage [above] is in the very context of Christ Jesus Second Advent:

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. Revelation 22:11

Look further still:

And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled. Revelation 15:18

There is a time coming when Michael shall stand up... there is a time when salvation is no longer offered. The door to the final "Ark" is forever closed. Men shall then seek it and yet find it not.

And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find [it]. Amos 8:12

The Everlasting Gospel is the good news that Christ Jesus came to save us "from" our sins, and thus also to give us strength to overcome temptation, even as He did.

Just as God gave Babylon time to repent, but she would not:

And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Revelation 2:21

For more references to the biblical idea of "probation" and "testing" see Joseph and his brothers, Ninevah, the peoples Israel [70 weeks], even Adam and the Tree, etc.

 

[Pythons]

Uhhh, maybe you're confusing the Adventist room to the Proctological Doctrine room....

Unfortunately I'm not kidding -and I have all the 'documentation' to convince anyone within or without the SDA denomination...