If creationism is true, then why is it useless?

[AV1611VET]

The way I see it is the historical veracity of the Bible is completely independent of one's specific beliefs with respect to it. If events described in the Bible like Noah's flood or the Exodus were factual, historical events then independent evidence should bear them out regardless of one's beliefs.

And that includes Jesus' resurrection as well ... right?

 

[ananda]

The problem though is that from an outside perspective I have no way of verifying what you say is true. It's especially problematic when you have various people of different denominations, philosophies, religions, etc, all claiming that their way is the True Way(TM). Why I should I take what you say as any more valid than say a Muslim or Hindu or Buddhist or atheist, etc?

This is largely why I view all religions as being man-made. In my view, everyone is already in the same boat.

I would exclude early Buddhism from that ... it asks for personal, direct experience of what it claims which it suggests can be personally observed in reality all around us ... not faith in its dogmas.

 

[joshua 1 9]

If events described in the Bible like Noah's flood or the Exodus were factual, historical events then independent evidence should bear them out regardless of one's beliefs.

Why is the world is this so difficult for you to understand? YOU HAVE TO GO WHERE THE EVIDENCE TAKES YOU. I study History, Science and the Bible including Archaeology, Geology and Botany. I go where the evidence takes me. Perhaps you do not know what evidence is. One form of evidence is what they call artifacts. You look at the evidence and you go where the evidence takes you. In Botney we have an archaeology site that goes back 20,000 years where they find many different wild grains and millstones to turn them into a flour. This was before the grains became domesticated. Today health food nuts are making ancient grains popular again.

Charles Lyell went with the evidence and that changed his understanding of the Bible. The new evidence gave him a better, new and improved understanding of the Bible. I mention Lyell because of his influence and friendship with Darwin. Catastrophism is still a valid theory. The failure of the spillway at the damn in California is an example of catastrophism. They did not anticipate that they would ever have to deal with water pressure to the extent that they did. This was the degree of water pressure that formed the grand canyon (Cubit feet per second - PSI). Still Lyell worked on the theory of gradualism and he developed a belief in an old earth. He went with the evidence and other leading scientists followed him.

I would have to write out 12 books to explain all of this to you and no one is all that much interested.

 

[joshua 1 9]

The way I see it is the historical veracity of the Bible is completely independent of one's specific beliefs with respect to it. If events described in the Bible like Noah's flood or the Exodus were factual, historical events then independent evidence should bear them out regardless of one's beliefs.

You have to go where the evidence takes you and you have to work with the evidence that you have to work with. Adam and Eve lived around 6,000 years ago in the Tigris Euphrates river valley. We know that there were two groups of people living in this valley at that time. They were peaceful and they got along but they spoke two different languages. This is the history of ancient Mesopotamia and we have to go where the history takes us.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I would exclude early Buddhism from that

Can you explain why Buddhism and Hindus are separated by the Himalayan mountains. I have some friends that spent 17 years in a Nepal refugee camp before they got their visa to come to America.

 

[ananda]

Can you explain why Buddhism and Hindus are separated by the Himalayan mountains. I have some friends that spent 17 years in a Nepal refugee camp before they got their visa to come to America.

I can't say I am aware of the history behind that.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Which of course is plain nonsense, because earth (or its waters, etc.) didn't exist before the sun

So we know that the
Bible does not say that. This is all very simple, you go where the evidence takes you and that helps you to arrive at a proper understanding of the Bible.

Genesis chapter one is amazing. Moses wrote this 3500 years ago and modern science still has not caught up to what Moses knew back then. What is really amazing is that Moses was able to use very few words. Today we have hundreds of thousands of works to talk about what Moses was able to explain with thousands of words.

 

[joshua 1 9]

I can't say I am aware of the history behind that.

I understand that in Tibet the ancient monks were so effective at purifying their body so that when they died their body did not decompose.

 

[Dawnhammer]

I just read a book that he wrote and the back cover gave that information.

Think that about sums up creationist research in general.

 

[joshua 1 9]

And that includes Jesus' resurrection as well ... right?

We have physical evidence for the resurrection. This is called the Shroud of Turin.

 

[ananda]

I understand that in Tibet the ancient monks were so effective at purifying their body so that when they died their body did not decompose.

Possibly so ... I don't have firsthand knowledge of that either

 

[joshua 1 9]

You claimed there are applications of creationism, so present some.

The problem there is you want to define creationism. For me theistic evolution is creationism. So you think that there are practical applications for this? Francis Collins says that the study of DNA gives us the practical application of being able to come up with treatment plans for genetic diseases.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Using common descent to figure out which parts of our DNA are functionally important -- very helpful for all kinds of biomedical research.

What is the difference between evolution and theistic evolution?

 

[sfs]

What is the difference between evolution and theistic evolution?

Theistic evolution is evolution accepted by someone who is also a theist. It's not really a thing in itself; the term only exists because some people have gotten the mistaken idea that evolution implies atheism.

 

[joshua 1 9]

-_- at a bare minimum, direct me to a specific thread and a specific page to look for.

What are you wanting to know? What is the question?

 

[PsychoSarah]

What are you wanting to know? What is the question?

Give an example of where the bible and science agree. It can be on anything you like, I'm not picky.

 

[AV1611VET]

Give an example of where the bible and science agree. It can be on anything you like, I'm not picky.

The universe is expanding.

 

[joshua 1 9]

The fact that Biblical literalism seems a pre-requirement to take some of these Biblical tales as historically valid casts doubt on their historical veracity.

Liberalism just shows how powerful God is. God does not need us, what is amazing is that He is able to use man in his fallen condition to accomplish HIS purpose. Creation is in a fallen condition and God is working out His plan of redemption and restoration.

I am all of the above because everything offers it's own perspective. IF you look at YEC then by definition you can ONLY look at the last 6,000 years. That makes YEC true because it is ONLY a study of the last 6,000 years in man's history. Bishop Ushers book is a history book that covers the last 6,000 years of history. Starting with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden and including Noah and his flood. These stories are very literal but they also have profound symbolic meanings. God does not waste our time with things that do not apply to us. Everything in the Bible has profound meaning for us today in our day and our generation. Each generation has to discover the meaning of the Bible for them and their generation here on the earth.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Give an example of where the bible and science agree. It can be on anything you like, I'm not picky.

The Bible says that the sky is blue and grass is green. Science and the Bible agree. If you agree then you are not qualified to enter into kindergarten. How far do you think you can progress from there?

 

[PsychoSarah]

The universe is expanding.

You need the part of the bible which says that too.