If Christianity the true religion, how is it observably different from other, false, religions

BigV

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  1. Logging workers. <
  2. Fishers and related fishing workers. < ...
  3. Aircraft pilots and flight engineers. < ...
  4. Roofers. < ...
  5. Refuse and recyclable material collectors. < ...
  6. Driver/sales workers and truck drivers. < ...
  7. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers. < ...
  8. Structural iron and steel workers.
Environmental hazards feel different than personal confrontations.
Having been on the street in the ghetto...I can tell you the mindset is different
when you don't know about the next person you say hello to.

Different from when I did sheet metal work on church steeples.

My point is not that firefighters or soldier's jobs are not dangerous, because obviously their jobs are dangerous. My point was that people doing those jobs are not necessarily doing them for selfless reasons, or because they love their neighbors as themselves. There are very good perks that come with the jobs of the soldiers, firefighters and police.
 
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BigV

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Hear! hear!...a fact that many here space out on.
How can Christians be credited with scientific inventions they were fighting for all these years?

There are Christians TODAY who believe the Earth is only thousands of years old!

Luther, Calvin, and Copernicus — A Reformed Approach to Science and Scripture

Both Calvin and Luther rejected Copernicus as a heretic in the 16th century. I don’t know anybody in orthodox Christianity today who’s pleading for geocentricity. Do you? Do you know anybody? In that case the church has said, “Look, we misinterpreted the teaching of the Bible with respect to the solar system, and thank you scientists for correcting our misunderstanding.”

And so I think that we can learn from nonbelieving scientists who are studying natural revelation. They may get a better sense of the truth from their study of natural revelation than I get from ignoring natural revelation. So I have a high view of natural revelation is what I’m saying.
 
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A_Thinker

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There are Christians TODAY who believe the Earth is only thousands of years old!
There are non-Christians TODAY who believe the Earth is only thousands of years old ... and FLAT !

EricDubay.com

In both cases, a minority, hopefully ...
 
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BigV

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Maria Billingsley

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But he didn't see Jesus resurrected proper, he saw a vision of Jesus that can be interpreted spiritually rather than the disciples that supposedly saw Jesus resurrected in the flesh
No one witnessed the resurrection. This took place in a sealed tomb. As a matter of fact His disciples thought the body was stolen until He physically "appeared" to them. Additionally, the soldiers on duty reported that the body "disappeared" from the tomb as well, claiming no one opened it under their watch.
Jesus Christ of Nazareth "appeared" to many, over 500 people, in His resurrected body for 40 days. Although physical, the resurrection body is by its very nature a supernatural body as He appeared in rooms with doors closed while maintaining physicality. In Saul's case he and his comrades heard a voice identifying Himself as the risen Jesus Christ of Nazareth. This is another "appearance" by Jesus Christ of Nazareth witnessed by Saul and all who were present with him. The argument that this is a vision or as some call it a hallucination is unfounded.
 
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muichimotsu

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No one witnessed the resurrection. This took place in a sealed tomb. As a matter of fact His disciples thought the body was stolen until He physically "appeared" to them. Additionally, the soldiers on duty reported that the body "disappeared" from the tomb as well, claiming no one opened it under their watch.
Jesus Christ of Nazareth "appeared" to many, over 500 people, in His resurrected body for 40 days. Although physical, the resurrection body is by its very nature a supernatural body as He appeared in rooms with doors closed while maintaining physicality. In Saul's case he and his comrades heard a voice identifying Himself as the risen Jesus Christ of Nazareth. This is another "appearance" by Jesus Christ of Nazareth witnessed by Saul and all who were present with him. The argument that this is a vision or as some call it a hallucination is unfounded.
That just undermines your point, their conclusion is still inference it doesn't mean that what Jesus claimed in regards to God and the like was actually true. The only thing he was technically right about if we grant the notion of him coming back from the dead is that such a thing can happen, but not that God exists, or that heaven exists or the like.

There's also a problem of reporting, because the only sources we have already have a vested interest in trying to make the argument, however insufficient, that Jesus was who he said he was, rather than any remotely neutral or secular source that could even corroborate something that one would think is such that word would spread

The 500 witnesses is only alleged in a few epistles at best and that's insufficient to substantiate that it happened if all we have is that source of a religious nature to back up the testimony in general, because 500 people isn't a small number and, again, you'd think someone would've reported this apart from Christianity

No, it's not unfounded if Jesus was already known about at that point, which seems to be the case, Christians already were spreading. Paul's writings precede the written gospels in their written form, but chronologically, the events happened AFTER the gospels. If he had never heard about Jesus at all, then it'd be more suspicious, but considering how much he'd likely heard, the idea of a sudden vision because of the stress and such is hardly unfounded given the situation we hear
 
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Maria Billingsley

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That just undermines your point, their conclusion is still inference it doesn't mean that what Jesus claimed in regards to God and the like was actually true. The only thing he was technically right about if we grant the notion of him coming back from the dead is that such a thing can happen, but not that God exists, or that heaven exists or the like.

There's also a problem of reporting, because the only sources we have already have a vested interest in trying to make the argument, however insufficient, that Jesus was who he said he was, rather than any remotely neutral or secular source that could even corroborate something that one would think is such that word would spread

The 500 witnesses is only alleged in a few epistles at best and that's insufficient to substantiate that it happened if all we have is that source of a religious nature to back up the testimony in general, because 500 people isn't a small number and, again, you'd think someone would've reported this apart from Christianity

No, it's not unfounded if Jesus was already known about at that point, which seems to be the case, Christians already were spreading. Paul's writings precede the written gospels in their written form, but chronologically, the events happened AFTER the gospels. If he had never heard about Jesus at all, then it'd be more suspicious, but considering how much he'd likely heard, the idea of a sudden vision because of the stress and such is hardly unfounded given the situation we hear
What you call undermining, I call reinforcing.
Thanks for engaging!
 
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BigV

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No one witnessed the resurrection. This took place in a sealed tomb. As a matter of fact His disciples thought the body was stolen until He physically "appeared" to them

That may be, but did you know that Jesus' was only one among many resurrections in that time period?
Matt. 27:51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

Jesus Christ of Nazareth "appeared" to many, over 500 people, in His resurrected body for 40 days.
How do you know this was a bodily appearance? If Jesus appeared to over 500 people, it was a vision, because Paul, in 1 Cor. 15 names himself as one of the people to whom Jesus appeared! Paul makes no distinction between Jesus appearing to him vs Jesus appearing to anyone else.

The argument that this is a vision or as some call it a hallucination is unfounded.

How did you rule out hallucination? Please understand that you need to consider all SUPERnatural options as well. Satan could have stolen the body, or caused a supernatural hallucination that was a once in a lifetime event, never to be repeated again (just like a bodily resurrection).
 
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Tone

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How can Christians be credited with scientific inventions they were fighting for all these years?

I really don't understand what you are saying here, but do you not know the difference between eastern and western civilizations and from which the scientific methodology arose? You don't believe Christianity had nothing to do with it....do you?
 
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muichimotsu

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What you call undermining, I call reinforcing.
Thanks for engaging!
You can call it reinforcing, that doesn't hold up in terms of someone looking at this from an outside perspective rather than a perspective that's already convinced it's true and just looking for ways to justify it.

You don't even seem to understand the inferential problem here: they didn't see it happen by your own admission, they just conclude that the one explanation they know of must be the case with no further investigation beyond Thomas sticking his fingers in Jesus' crucifixion wounds, which doesn't confirm much of anything beyond that he was crucified

Again, there's a MAJOR difference between conclude Jesus resurrected and that Jesus's claims connected to his resurrection, God, etc, are true, because one doesn't follow from the other
 
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muichimotsu

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I really don't understand what you are saying here, but do you not know the difference between eastern and western civilizations and from which the scientific methodology arose? You don't believe Christianity had nothing to do with it....do you?
Christianity having something to do with it in terms of particular interpretations that were beneficial to scientific progress is incidental at best to whether the claims in Christianity are actually substantiated
 
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dlamberth

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You are basically saying what I am saying about Hinduism. But you are wrong about Christians believing that the physical world is absolute reality. God is the absolute and ultimate reality.
If that were at all true, Christians would be seeing God everywhere they looked.
 
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BigV

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I really don't understand what you are saying here, but do you not know the difference between eastern and western civilizations and from which the scientific methodology arose? You don't believe Christianity had nothing to do with it....do you?

I think Christians love to give their religion credit where no credit is due. 40% of Americans think the earth is 10,000 years old, thanks to Christianity. And the Christianity has everything to do with it.
 
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Ed1wolf

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Congratulations, Ed. In trying to disprove Allah, you've dismantled Christianity. The Christian God is not internally consistent (if He is everywhere and knows all, how can He ever choose to do anything?
How does being everywhere and knowing everything prevent Him from choosing to do things?

ia: How can three persons be one person at the same time?

That is not what the Trinity is. He is three in person and one in essence, ie divinity. Just as you and your wife are one in your humanity and two in person.

ia: God seems designed to fit any situation. He loves peace, He loves war,
Nowhere does the Bible say God loves war.

ia: He is infinitely merciful and sends His enemies to hell forever,
He is merciful to those who have admitted that they dont deserve mercy and have accepted His Son as their substitute upon who God's just punishment falls. But he punishes those who are in rebellion against Him and His laws and refuse to accept His substitute, so receive the full just punishment for their rebellion against the eternal King of the Universe. Is a human judge inconsistent if he gives someone a reduced sentence for admitting their guilt and gives the max to someone who won't?

ia: He is everywhere and nowhere. And God does nothing at all to explain reality.
In His word He explains many aspects of reality. He told us that the universe had a definite beginning 3500 years before scientists confirmed it. He explains one of the main reasons why He created the universe. His existence explains why the universe is a diversity within a unity. He revealed that men and women are different beyond the obvious physical differences long before the recent rediscovery by scientists that that is true. And I could name many more things He has explained about reality.

ia: Why? Allah is a God. He knows everything. Naturally He knows what diversity is.

Can you provide a quotation from the Koran that says allah knows everything? There are many gods in history that have claimed not to know everything. Most of the greek gods did not claim to know everything. The Deist god, not being a person knows nothing.

To be continued.
 
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Eight Foot Manchild

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He told us that the universe had a definite beginning 3500 years before scientists confirmed it.

Scientists have 'confirmed' no such thing, in any sense that is relevant to your religion. Big Bang cosmology describes the earliest known state, expansion, and early evolution of the universe. It says nothing at all about a 'definite beginning', because our physics are currently incapable of addressing anything pre-Planck time.

You've been corrected on this point numerous times. Kindly stop making stuff up to support your garbage apologetics.
 
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How does being everywhere and knowing everything prevent Him from choosing to do things?
Because if He already knows everything, why would He want to do anything? Since He already knows what is going to happen, if He wanted something done, He would have already done it. And if He is everywhere, then there is no point in His choosing to do anything, since He is already doing it.
That is not what the Trinity is. He is three in person and one in essence, ie divinity. Just as you and your wife are one in your humanity and two in person.
You're playing with the meaning of "being one". By your analogy, the three persons of the Trinity may be one in their Goddishness, but are three separate entities.
Nowhere does the Bible say God loves war.
Should you judge someone by what they say, or by what they do?
He is merciful to those who have admitted that they dont deserve mercy and have accepted His Son as their substitute upon who God's just punishment falls. But he punishes those who are in rebellion against Him and His laws and refuse to accept His substitute, so receive the full just punishment for their rebellion against the eternal King of the Universe. Nothing inconsistent there.
Definition of MERCY
compassion or forbearance (see forbearance sense 1) shown especially to an offender or to one subject to one's power
To be merciful means to forgive people even though they have done wrong and you have a right to punish them.
In His word He explains many aspects of reality. He told us that the universe had a definite beginning 3500 years before scientists confirmed it. He explains one of the main reasons why He created the universe. His existence explains why the universe is a diversity within a unity. He revealed that men and women are different beyond the obvious physical differences long before the recent rediscovery by scientists that that is true. And I could name many more things He has explained about reality.
These are about as impressive as a potato chip with Jesus's face on it.
A definite beginning to the universe? Wow. The story of the Bible has a beginning.
One of the main reasons why a character in a story created the universe? So what?
His existence explains why we are a diversity within a unity? You mean there's one world with many parts? So?
The Bible says that men and women are different? So?
You're zero for four so far.
Can you provide a quotation from the Koran that says Allah knows everything?
Of course I can.
Allah Knows Every thing - His Knowledge
 
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Ed1wolf

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If that were at all true, Christians would be seeing God everywhere they looked.
Not sure exactly what you are saying. Since God is not physical you cannot see Him physically with your eyes. And He is not IN creation, He is separate from it but it is EVIDENCE for Him.
 
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Ed1wolf

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Problem is, saying something is objective metaphysically is VERY different from claiming you can objectively verify those things apart from the filters of our perception. We can be close, but we cannot absolutely claim the diversity we perceive is real in itself, because we cannot grasp reality in itself, only the secondhand notion through our senses and rational consideration of it in an explanatory model. That's not objective, that's subjectivity seeking consistency and rationality in the worldview
That is true up to a point, we cannot prove with certainty that there is an objective reality but Christianity gives a more rational basis for believing an objective reality than atheism. And a more rational basis for an objective reality than Hinduism. And a more rational basis for real diversity than Hinduism and Islam.
 
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