If Christ existed before earthly birth, did He not interact with humans?

[Hank77]

I remember posting to a thread about this very subject (either here or elsewhere) sometime last year. It was suggested that EVERY (or nearly every) physical appearance of God in the OT was, in fact, made by the second Member of the Godhead, and I have come to cautiously believe that is true. For instance, that the finger that wrote on the ground before the angry mob in John 8:6 belongs to the same Person who wrote the 10 Commandments on two stone tablets nearly 1,500 years earlier.

The Apostle John tells us that it was the pre-Incarnate Son of God who Isaiah saw in the Temple (John 12:41; Isaiah 6:1-7).

It seems to me that the idea that such appearances were all made by Jesus, who we know had/has a physical body, is also supported by two other things that He and St. John teach us about God the Father: 1) that He is "Spirit" .. John 4:24 and 2) that "no one has seen Him at any time" .. John 1:18.

Yours and His,
David

And who was it that Moses saw the backside of from the cleft in rocks?

 

[ViaCrucis]

One of the most profound holes I find in conservative Christianity is the lack of wonder at what Jesus Christ was doing before His physical birth as Jesus of Nazarene. Many, too many to list, biblical passages clearly show that Christ existed in some form since the beginning of time, and for as long as Earth has existed.

Now yes, the Bible does not provide a detailed list of what Jesus was doing for all those thousands and thousands of years of human history. It talks more of His presence in the heavenly realm. However, I find it very hard to imagine that in all that time, He never interacted in one form of another with mankind. Or at the very least inspired people - and possibly certain beliefs. As in, could it not be possible that at least some, not all, but at least some of the religions and beliefs before Christianity could have been touched by Christ in some form or another? Not at all saying any were perfect or pure, but some aspects of them could have been a shadow, or a hint, of the real truth. Comparing and analyzing different religions certainly shows some, keyword some, striking similarities.

I find it hard to believe that whatever Christ was doing in heaven, when it comes specifically to his earthly involvement, he was sitting on the sidelines all the way until his birth in Bethlehem.

Of course, this is very controversial, because even the hint that there could be truth outside of what is commonly known as Christianity opens up a big Pandora's box that does not sit well with conservatism.

Christ, being eternal God, the very Logos, has always been God. Thus "what was Christ doing before the Incarnation" is the same as asking what God was doing before the Incarnation.

What was God doing? Well, see for yourself in the books that make up the Christian Old Testament. Further, look into the topic of theophanies.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[St_Worm2]

And who was it that Moses saw the backside of from the cleft in rocks?

I'm going with the pre-Incarnate Son of God yet again

 

[ChristianMatchmaking]

I gave up trying to read every post. It did seem that some were posting truth in the face of error though, which is good.

1. The Lord Jesus Christ is eternal God. That answers many questions. He did not become the Son of God at any point in the history of this world - any assertion like that is error.
2. The Scriptures contain God's word to us, and as such answer such questions to the extent that God wishes if properly understood from a spiritually regenerated point of view, even if they do not answer every question under the sun.
   
3. "For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away." 1 Cor 13:9-10

 

[St_Worm2]

A subject has been brought up that is common to most denominations and churches.

In other words, basic doctrine.

IN THE BEGINNING, GOD can get us to 100% agreement.

I guess I was just surprised that no one is objecting to the idea that all the appearances of God in the OT were actually made by second Member of the Godhead.

Maybe we should start a CT theological "agreement" thread and see where else the ground might be found to be this level

 

[AV1611VET]

I guess I was just surprised that no one is objecting to the idea that all the appearances of God in the OT were actually made by second Member of the Godhead.

To be honest, I expected some denial as well.

Let's hear it for common ground!

 

[ChristianMatchmaking]

As for the part about other "religions," for example, Romans 1 alone addresses that to whatever degree God wanted to there, and it's not pretty.

 

[AV1611VET]

What's interesting is that this thread is in the wrong forum.

This forum is for Controversial Christian Theology!

 

[Aryeh]

A subject has been brought up that is common to most denominations and churches.

In other words, basic doctrine.

IN THE BEGINNING, GOD can get us to 100% agreement.

Basic doctrine has divided the best-intended Christians.

 

[Aryeh]

Hold on a minute, we all seem to be in agreement. I can't remember the last time that happened on a CT debate thread (if it ever did ), so hey, what's going on here

 

[AV1611VET]

Basic doctrine has divided the best-intended Christians.

Yes, indeed.

It can unite us as well.

And although I'm an independent, I'm also a firm believer in basic doctrine; whether it unites or separates.

 

[AV1611VET]

LOL

I loved the Twilight Zone!

 

[klutedavid]

Joshua 5
13 Now it came about when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, a man was standing opposite him with his sword drawn in his hand, and Joshua went to him and said to him, “Are you for us or for our adversaries?” 14 He said, “No; rather I indeed come now as captain of the host of the Lord.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and bowed down, and said to him, “What has my lord to say to his servant?” 15 The captain of the Lord’s host said to Joshua, “Remove your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy.”

 

[klutedavid]

Hello all.

Two visions of God, one from the Old Testament, and one from the new Testament.

Daniel 10
5 I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, there was a certain man dressed in linen, whose waist was girded with a belt of pure gold of Uphaz. 6 His body also was like beryl, his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like flaming torches, his arms and feet like the gleam of polished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a tumult.

Revelations 1
13 and in the middle of the lampstands I saw one like a son of man, clothed in a robe reaching to the feet, and girded
across His chest with a golden sash. 14 His head and His hair were white like white wool, like snow; and His eyes were
like a flame of fire. 15 His feet were like burnished bronze, when it has been made to glow in a furnace, and His voice
was like the sound of many waters.

 

[Neogaia777]

One of the most profound holes I find in conservative Christianity is the lack of wonder at what Jesus Christ was doing before His physical birth as Jesus of Nazarene. Many, too many to list, biblical passages clearly show that Christ existed in some form since the beginning of time, and for as long as Earth has existed.

Now yes, the Bible does not provide a detailed list of what Jesus was doing for all those thousands and thousands of years of human history. It talks more of His presence in the heavenly realm. However, I find it very hard to imagine that in all that time, He never interacted in one form of another with mankind. Or at the very least inspired people - and possibly certain beliefs. As in, could it not be possible that at least some, not all, but at least some of the religions and beliefs before Christianity could have been touched by Christ in some form or another? Not at all saying any were perfect or pure, but some aspects of them could have been a shadow, or a hint, of the real truth. Comparing and analyzing different religions certainly shows some, keyword some, striking similarities.

I find it hard to believe that whatever Christ was doing in heaven, when it comes specifically to his earthly involvement, he was sitting on the sidelines all the way until his birth in Bethlehem.

Of course, this is very controversial, because even the hint that there could be truth outside of what is commonly known as Christianity opens up a big Pandora's box that does not sit well with conservatism.

He did... Jesus is YHWH... YHWH's interaction with us is him...

 

[St_Worm2]

 

[roamer_1]

One of the most profound holes I find in conservative Christianity is the lack of wonder at what Jesus Christ was doing before His physical birth as Jesus of Nazarene. Many, too many to list, biblical passages clearly show that Christ existed in some form since the beginning of time, and for as long as Earth has existed.

No man has seen YHWH. Yet many men have seen YHWH.

Who was it in the burning bush?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Joshua 5
13 Now it came about when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, a man was standing opposite him with his sword drawn in his hand, and Joshua went to him and said to him, “Are you for us or for our adversaries?” 14 He said, “No; rather I indeed come now as captain of the host of the Lord.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and bowed down, and said to him, “What has my lord to say to his servant?” 15 The captain of the Lord’s host said to Joshua, “Remove your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy.”

That's one of my favorite passages for the sheer fact of the irony of the Angel's emphatic statement. He responds to Joshua's "double" question with a "NO!" He wasn't there to take sides; HE was there to TAKE CHARGE!! Ya Gotta Love IT!!! Glory!! (Can I get everyone to give the Lord a "glory"! Thank you!)

 

[Fitopia46]

One of the most profound holes I find in conservative Christianity is the lack of wonder at what Jesus Christ was doing before His physical birth as Jesus of Nazarene. Many, too many to list, biblical passages clearly show that Christ existed in some form since the beginning of time, and for as long as Earth has existed.

Now yes, the Bible does not provide a detailed list of what Jesus was doing for all those thousands and thousands of years of human history. It talks more of His presence in the heavenly realm. However, I find it very hard to imagine that in all that time, He never interacted in one form of another with mankind. Or at the very least inspired people - and possibly certain beliefs. As in, could it not be possible that at least some, not all, but at least some of the religions and beliefs before Christianity could have been touched by Christ in some form or another? Not at all saying any were perfect or pure, but some aspects of them could have been a shadow, or a hint, of the real truth. Comparing and analyzing different religions certainly shows some, keyword some, striking similarities.

I find it hard to believe that whatever Christ was doing in heaven, when it comes specifically to his earthly involvement, he was sitting on the sidelines all the way until his birth in Bethlehem.

Of course, this is very controversial, because even the hint that there could be truth outside of what is commonly known as Christianity opens up a big Pandora's box that does not sit well with conservatism.

Jesus existed in the form of the Trinity: God as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God is all three. It is difficult for us to wrap our finite minds around, but He IS GOD. He was only sent to earth in Human form, but He existed as God in the Heavenly realm. God wanted to reveal Himself to us through Jesus, or, Himself as a human. When God created the earth, He said, "Let US...." that meant all three of His personas as the Holy Trinity. Yet He is ONE.

 

[Norbert L]

I find it hard to believe that whatever Christ was doing in heaven, when it comes specifically to his earthly involvement, he was sitting on the sidelines all the way until his birth in Bethlehem.

Of course, this is very controversial, because even the hint that there could be truth outside of what is commonly known as Christianity opens up a big Pandora's box that does not sit well with conservatism.

If a person reads the entire Bible like it were a novel, it does have the story line with Jesus interacting with mankind from the beginning. He's in there, most comments in this discussion show that.

What is controversial happens when other historical writings claim to also be revelations from God. Two thousand years ago they understood there were false prophets 2 Peter 2:1. Those same false prophets also wrote things down. So just because some ancient written source is very old, it does NOT also make those writings holy scripture. He didn't come off the sidelines and commit involvement in that kind of way.