YupI take his OP (Original Post) to mean he is talking to all believers when he said,
"So in other words, those of you who read this as believers,."
~ By the Spirit.
....
All men are sons of Adam, born unrightness, not justified by the blood of the Lamb.If a person did not choose or reject God at any point, then the wicked could not be blamed for their actions at a Judgment because they had no choice in the matter and God just made them to be evil. But this would be impossible because there is no darkness in the Lord; And God is good.
All men are sons of Adam, born unrightness, not justified by the blood of the Lamb.
You said:God doesn't make them be evil (unrighteous, unholy). Everyone sins against God. Therefore, there is no reason to think that they deserve to be saved. Only God can save. So if God chooses not to save everyone from their sin, they are not condemned for no reason, they are getting what they deserve.
You said:Now I don't hold to this doctrine because of all the scriptures that say all men are called, just as you do.
Please read the last line of my post again.So you believe babies are unsaved if they die?
Please read the last line of my post again.
You started out with a question that didn't directly address anything I said. Let's set aside children birth thru 19 right now.And please read all of what I had written to you in my post.
I essentially was saying in my last sentence that I know you do not agree with Calvinism, but in the rest of my post, I was saying I disagree with your other assertions or statements....
All men are sons of Adam, born unrightness, not justified by the blood of the Lamb.
God doesn't make them be evil (unrighteous, unholy).
Everyone sins against God.
Therefore, there is no reason to think that they deserve to be saved.
Only God can save.
So if God chooses not to save everyone from their sin, they are not condemned for no reason, they are getting what they deserve.
You started out with a question that didn't directly address anything I said. Let's set aside children birth thru 19 right now.
You said:Are any of these statements false?
Hank77 said:All men are sons of Adam, born unrightness, not justified by the blood of the Lamb.
Hank77 said:Therefore, there is no reason to think that they deserve to be saved.
So if God chooses not to save everyone from their sin, they are not condemned for no reason, they are getting what they deserve.
Praise God! It is a blessing that you have not heard of Calvinism because that probably means you still read the scriptures in the simple straightforward way God intended, as a child coming to God for His wisdom and truth. But the sad fact is that this theology is permeating many churches, denominations and bringing disunity and delusion where ever it goes.(Scratching head) ..I don't even know what a Calvinist is..what they believe...e.t.c...Not because I'm a dunce. I've just never heard of these people.Ever.Guess I'd better Google it..
Well, if Calvinism is true then it certainly is contrary to the revelation of the scriptures to the character of God which portrays Him as the Essence and Source of love, justice, mercy, compassion, forgiveness, and truth.if Calvinism is correct in its assertion that God predestined some for salvation and many others for wrath, would that affect your view or relationship with God in any way?
So in other words, those of you who read this as believers, if you knew even in a brief moment of time that God granted you salvation (Predestination) but has eternally prevented others from being so, would that affect your view or relationship with him in any way?
How would you react to such a revelation? Or would it?
I think the excerpt below is a pretty good answer...How does someone who does not agree with the doctrine of election by grace alone explain this verse?
Revelation 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
The names of Christ's believers who have eternal life are written in the Lamb's book of Life at the foundation of the earth.
The non believers follow the devil.
What is the presupposition? Does or does not Calvinism teach that God regenerates some "the elect" allowing them to believe the gospel and lets the rest of humanity go on their way to damnation? Does not Calvinism state that it is not God's will to save all mankind?This is incorrect. You have presuppositions, which you don't even realize, and they will always cause you to arrive at the same conclusion, no matter the evidence. Start without the presuppositions, and you might at least understand what Calvinists believe.
What is the presupposition? Does or does not Calvinism teach that God regenerates some "the elect" allowing them to believe the gospel and lets the rest of humanity go on their way to damnation? Does not Calvinism state that it is not God's will to save all mankind?
I thought I asked a couple questions. I don't see any "I know" statements.Take one thing at a time, or else this would be impossible. Your, "I know" statements are the presuppositions.
I thought I asked a couple questions. I don't see any "I know" statements.
This commentary here makes no sense.I think the excerpt below is a pretty good answer...
"Answer: Several verses speak of God blotting or not blotting names out of the book of life: “I will not blot out his name out of the book of life” (Rv 3:5); “God shall take away his part out of the book of life” (Rv 22:19); “...if thou wilt forgive their sin—; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.... Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book” (Ex 32:32,33).
These references to blotting out of the book of life allow only two possibilities: 1) everyone’s name is written in the book of life from eternity past, indicating God’s desire for all to be saved, until they have irrevocably rejected Christ, when their name is blotted out; or 2) when a person gets saved, his name is placed in the book of life for the first time, and when He later turns against Christ, his name is blotted out. Neither of these fits Calvinism. The first denies that God only intends to save a select elect, and the second denies the eternal security of the redeemed.
References to those “whose names are in the book of life” (Phil:4:3; Rv 21:27) and those “whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (Rv 13:8; 17:8; 20:15)offer no clue as to how or why names are written or are not written there. They only tell us that at the end of history, some names will be found, and some names will not be found written therein. But the fact that names can be and in fact are blotted out of the book of life is clear.
Of the two alternatives above, since the second one, which allows for some of the redeemed to lose their salvation, contradicts Christ’s clear promise (“shall not come into condemnation, but has passed from death unto life” - Jn:5:24), we must opt for the first. Comparing all of the verses, we can only conclude that, in keeping with God’s desire that all be saved, from eternity past every person’s name is written in the book of life of the Lamb, slain from before the foundation of the world. Whose names are blotted out? The names of those who refuse to yield to the wooing of the Holy Spirit. For this sin, there is no forgiveness (Mk 3:28; Lk 12:10).
Thus there is nothing in what Scripture says about the “book of life” to give any comfort to Calvinists, but only discomfort."
Question: Why does Revelation 17:8 (and maybe Revelation 13:8, depending on the translation used) refer to those “whose names were not written in the book of life from the creation of the world...”?
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