If any man thirst

[Hammster]

In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
— John 7:37-38

Question for discussion: if are all unregenerate men thirsty?

 

[bling]

In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
— John 7:37-38

Question for discussion: if are all unregenerate men thirsty?

All mature adults for a time (prior to their hardening their hearts beyond recovery) are burdened by the memory of hurting others and themselves in the past (sin). They thirst for relieve of this burden and may try lots of stuff, but the only long term relieve (thirst quenching) comes from Jesus.

 

[moonbeam]

In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
— John 7:37-38

Question for discussion: if are all unregenerate men thirsty?

I think it depends how you would define thirsty and then to what degree.
One scripture that springs to mind for consideration that all unregenerate thirst (or wonder) is Ecc 3:11

"He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end."

I like one of the definitions of the Greek for the word translated "the world" - that being vanishing point - and also it is translated as - eternity.

 

[fhansen]

In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
— John 7:37-38

Question for discussion: if are all unregenerate men thirsty?

Some are, some aren't. This world, alone, should make anyone thirst-for truth and justice and righteousness and hope and the love that pretty well sums those up-being a world that fails and and tramples upon those goods constantly as it is.

 

[zoidar]

In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
— John 7:37-38

Question for discussion: if are all unregenerate men thirsty?

One way to respond could be with the question: Are regenerate men still thirsty? The question is "thirsty of what?", knowing the truth? Regenerate men already know the truth. Are we still seeking when we have been found? Hasn't a regenerate man already come to Jesus? However, I don't think this is the best passage to draw theology.

 

[setst777]

One way to respond could be with the question: Are regenerate men still thirsty? The question is "thirsty of what?", knowing the truth? Regenerate men already know the truth. Are we still seeking when we have been found? Hasn't a regenerate man already come to Jesus? However, I don't think this is the best passage to draw theology.

Both "John 7:37-39" and "John 4:14" appear to be describing the same thing.

John 7:37-39 (WEB) 37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.

John 4:14 (WEB) Whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never thirst again; Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to Eternal Life.

Those who "thirst" must "come" to Lord Jesus and "drink."

Those who "come" and "drink" appears to be defined as "believing" in Lord Jesus, according to "John 7:38," and this results in receiving the Holy Spirit, which is the "living water welling up inside of the believers."

John 7:38 (WEB) 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”

Therefore, anyone who "drinks" are the ones "believing" in Lord Jesus, and are the same ones whom the Spirit indwells (John 7:39), which is the "living water" inside them.

The indwelling Holy Spirit is described as "living water will flow from within them“ [John 7:38]. And according to "John 4:14," this living water (Holy Spirit: John 7:38) of which we "drink" or "believe" is that same water that 'wells up to Eternal Life' (John 4:14).

This is clear evidence that the Spirit indwells us by faith, and when the Spirit indwells us (John 7:39), we have living water flowing within us (John 7:38) which is what gives us Eternal Life (John 4:14).

The result of this teaching is that the indwelling Spirit is what gives us Eternal Life, and this “Eternal Life” is the “new birth” within us (living water within them welling up to eternal life: John 4:14), and is received by whoever drinks/believes in Lord Jesus.

And this all agrees with how Lord Jesus explained being "born again" (John 3:14-18) to Nicodemus, when he asked Lord Jesus, "How can these things be?" [John 3:3-8]. Lord Jesus explained that, "Whosoever believes in me may have eternal life" (John 3:14-18), which is “living water welling up to eternal life” (a reference to the Spirit, and work of the Spirit, inside those who believe: John 7:38-39)” inside whoever drinks (John 4:14). And again, “drinks” means “believes” (John 7:37-38).

 

[zoidar]

Both "John 7:37-39" and "John 4:14" appear to be describing the same thing.

John 7:37-39 (WEB) 37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.

John 4:14 (WEB) Whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never thirst again; Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to Eternal Life.

Those who "thirst" must "come" to Lord Jesus and "drink."

Those who "come" and "drink" appears to be defined as "believing" in Lord Jesus, according to "John 7:38," and this results in receiving the Holy Spirit, which is the "living water welling up inside of the believers."

John 7:38 (WEB) 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”

Therefore, anyone who "drinks" are the ones "believing" in Lord Jesus, and are the same ones whom the Spirit indwells (John 7:39), which is the "living water" inside them.

The indwelling Holy Spirit is described as "living water will flow from within them“ [John 7:38]. And according to "John 4:14," this living water (Holy Spirit: John 7:38) of which we "drink" or "believe" is that same water that 'wells up to Eternal Life' (John 4:14).

This is clear evidence that the Spirit indwells us by faith, and when the Spirit indwells us (John 7:39), we have living water flowing within us (John 7:38) which is what gives us Eternal Life (John 4:14).

The result of this teaching is that the indwelling Spirit is what gives us Eternal Life, and this “Eternal Life” is the “new birth” within us (living water within them welling up to eternal life: John 4:14), and is received by whoever drinks/believes in Lord Jesus.

And this all agrees with how Lord Jesus explained being "born again" (John 3:14-18) to Nicodemus, when he asked Lord Jesus, "How can these things be?" [John 3:3-8]. Lord Jesus explained that, "Whosoever believes in me may have eternal life" (John 3:14-18), which is “living water welling up to eternal life” (a reference to the Spirit, and work of the Spirit, inside those who believe: John 7:38-39)” inside whoever drinks (John 4:14). And again, “drinks” means “believes” (John 7:37-38).

Is believing the same as being regenerated? Or do we need to believe first, then surrender to Christ to get regenerated?

 

[setst777]

Is believing the same as being regenerated? Or do we need to believe first, then surrender to Christ to get regenerated?

Greetings Brother Zoidar,

In my understanding, as I read the Scriptures, is that:

"Regeneration" (to be made alive spiritually: Romans 8:9-10) is synonymous with both "born again" (John 3:3-18) and "eternal life" (John 4:14) welling up inside whoever "drinks" of the Living Water (Holy Spirit) by believing in Lord Jesus - John 7:37-39

The Spirit indwells anyone who drinks (present and continuous drinking) by believing in Lord Jesus (John 7:38-39). The Holy Spirit (Living Water) inside of the believer is how "regeneration" (born again / eternal life) happens.

John 7:37-39 (WEB) 37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.

John 4:14 (WEB) Whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never thirst again; Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to Eternal Life.

• The "Living Water" inside the believer is the Holy Spirit, and is received by believing in Lord Jesus (John 7:38-39).
• Anyone who believes in Lord Jesus are the same ones drinking of the Holy Spirit who indwells them by faith (John 7:38-39)
• The "Living Water/Holy Spirit" inside the believer is how Eternal Life (regeneration/new birth) wells up inside of the one who "drinks" (John 4:14), which is only true of those who "believe" in Lord Jesus (John 7:37-38).
• Therefore, the Holy Spirit produces the "Eternal Life" (regeneration/new birth) inside the one who first believes, "and believing" they drink of the Spirit (John 4:14; John 7:38-39)

In contrast to "regeneration/born again," the "drawing" of all people to Lord Jesus (John 12:32) is by the preaching of the Gospel (Romans 10:17; Romans 10:18) with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 6:17), which together, convicts the world (John 16:8; Hebrews 4:12).

This "drawing" of all people by the Word and Spirit to Lord Jesus is not efficacious; in that, many do refuse the Gospel Call (Romans 2:4-5; Romans 10:21; Matthew 22:3; Acts 19:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:10) and resist the Spirit (Acts 7:51). So, the only ones actually drawn to Christ by the worldwide drawing work of the Word and Spirit are those who do not refuse/resist.

 

[zoidar]

Greetings Brother Zoidar,

In my understanding, as I read the Scriptures, is that:

"Regeneration" (to be made alive spiritually: Romans 8:9-10) is synonymous with both "born again" (John 3:3-18) and "eternal life" (John 4:14) welling up inside whoever "drinks" of the Living Water (Holy Spirit) by believing in Lord Jesus - John 7:37-39

The Spirit indwells anyone who drinks (present and continuous drinking) by believing in Lord Jesus (John 7:38-39). The Holy Spirit (Living Water) inside of the believer is how "regeneration" (born again / eternal life) happens.

John 7:37-39 (WEB) 37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.

John 4:14 (WEB) Whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never thirst again; Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to Eternal Life.

• The "Living Water" inside the believer is the Holy Spirit, and is received by believing in Lord Jesus (John 7:38-39).
• Anyone who believes in Lord Jesus are the same ones drinking of the Holy Spirit who indwells them by faith (John 7:38-39)
• The "Living Water/Holy Spirit" inside the believer is how Eternal Life (regeneration/new birth) wells up inside of the one who "drinks" (John 4:14), which is only true of those who "believe" in Lord Jesus (John 7:37-38).
• Therefore, the Holy Spirit produces the "Eternal Life" (regeneration/new birth) inside the one who first believes, "and believing" they drink of the Spirit (John 4:14; John 7:38-39)

In contrast to "regeneration/born again," the "drawing" of all people to Lord Jesus (John 12:32) is by the preaching of the Gospel (Romans 10:17; Romans 10:18) with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 6:17), which together, convicts the world (John 16:8; Hebrews 4:12).

This "drawing" of all people by the Word and Spirit to Lord Jesus is not efficacious; in that, many do refuse the Gospel Call (Romans 2:4-5; Romans 10:21; Matthew 22:3; Acts 19:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:10) and resist the Spirit (Acts 7:51). So, the only ones actually drawn to Christ by the worldwide drawing work of the Word and Spirit are those who do not refuse/resist.

Greetings brother Setst,

Hm, but what do you think of a person who believes Jesus died for our sins, but has not yet decided to follow Christ as Lord, you still think he is born again?

 

[setst777]

Greetings brother Setst,

Hm, but what do you think of a person who believes Jesus died for our sins, but has not yet decided to follow Christ as Lord, you still think he is born again?

Brother Zoidar,

Good question that really hits at the heart and soul of who is saved and who is not saved, but think they are, which appears to pertain to many professing Christians; for many will say in that Day, "Lord, Lord". . . But he will say to them 'I never knew you,' 'depart from me you workers of iniquity.'

The only faith by which we are "born again" includes repentance, and a firm decision to turn from serving sin to serving God by following Lord Jesus into a sanctified life of righteousness and love, just as Lord Jesus taught us by example and by teaching.

“The Faith,” as the Scriptures teach, is not a work that earns our salvation; rather, faith includes repentance, and is the sinner’s plea to God for the salvation offered to him by the Gospel so that he may be justified and born again of the Spirit before one work is ever done.

Luke 5:32 (WEB) I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

The sinner is redeemed and saved from the guilt, punishment, and slavery to sin that crushes and burdens him, so that he may have fellowship with God, serving him, that was lost by sin - the Rebirth. And this all starts with godly sorrow over our sins.

Luke 18:13-14 (WEB) 13 But the tax collector, standing far away, wouldn’t even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

2 Corinthians 7:10 (WEB) 10 For godly sorrow produces repentance to salvation, which brings no regret. But the sorrow of the world produces death.

• We receive eternal life by "believing" in Lord Jesus because of the Gospel of Christ (John 3:16).
• "Believing" includes "repentance" to receive forgiveness of sins and to be saved. (Luke 24:46-47; Acts 17:30; 2 Corinthians 7:10)
• A genuine "repentance" must lead to "conversion" to be saved, which is a firm decision to renounce serving sin to instead turn to God, serving him in righteousness. (Acts 3:19; Acts 20:20-21; Acts 26:19-20; Romans 6:1-6)
• We serve God by following Lord Jesus into a sanctified life of righteousness and love to be saved (Matthew 28:19-20; Matthew 10:38; John 10:26-29; John 15:10; 2 Timothy 2:19; Acts 11:26; 1 John 2:3-6; Hebrews 5:9).
• Faith, therefore, is manifested in a commitment to a sanctified life onto God by following Lord Jesus in righteousness and love to be cleansed from all sins we commit in weakness and to be saved (1 Thessalonians 4:1-8; Romans 6:19-22; 1 John 1:5-7; Acts 26:15-20).

Therefore, by faith, as expressed, we commit to walk in that new life of Salvation that Christ purchased for us – a life by which we repent and renounce slaving for sin that condemned us, and commit to follow Lord Jesus in obedience, as he instructed us, to possess this salvation – to follow in His steps into a new life.

Matthew 10:38 (WEB) 38 He who doesn’t take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.

Hebrews 5:9 Being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him.

Romans 6:2-4 (WEB) 2 May it never be! We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death, so that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.

By this faith commitment we possess the new birth of the Spirit.

The Spirit indwell, seals, and leads to a new life (the new birth) of righteousness and love to all who manifest their faith in repentance and a commitment to obedience to Christ, just as the Scriptures teach us.

Acts 2:38 (WEB) Peter said to them: Repent [change of mind and purpose], and be Baptized [a public confession to die to the old life of sin, and rise to a new life, following Lord Jesus: 1 Peter 3:21], every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 5:32 (WEB) 32 We are his witnesses of these things; and so also is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.

John 14:15-16 (WEB) 15 If you love me, keep my commandments. 16 I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever: 17 the Spirit of truth

John 14:21 (WEB) One who has my commandments and keeps them, that person is one who loves me. One who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him, and will reveal myself to him.

John 14:23 “If any man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him.”

According to the above Scriptures, by what "faith" will the Spirit indwell to seal and lead us to a new life of salvation - the New Birth?

We are "Born Again" by this Gospel Faith.

This is "The Faith" in Lord Jesus by which we "drink" of the "water of life" (The Spirit) so that the Spirit gives this Eternal Life in us - the New Birth.

As one continues in "The Faith" he continues to "drink" or "sow" to the Spirit, and this is the only faith by which the Spirit {{{gives}}} the person who believes eternal life welling up inside of him.

Galatians 6:7-9 Paul warns the Galatian Christians 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will {{{from the Spirit}}} reap Eternal Life. 9 Let {{{us}}} not be weary in doing good, for {{{we}}} will reap in due season, {{{if we}}} do not give up.

Therefore, a Christian is admonished to remain in the same faith he had by which he received the Spirit so that the Spirit continues to give him Eternal Life welling up inside of him. The one who "drinks" (lives, walks, sows) the Spirit (River of Life) is the true believer in whom the Spirit wells up inside of him unto eternal life.

 

[zoidar]

Brother Zoidar,

Good question that really hits at the heart and soul of who is saved and who is not saved, but think they are, which appears to pertain to many professing Christians; for many will say in that Day, "Lord, Lord". . . But he will say to them 'I never knew you,' 'depart from me you workers of iniquity.'

The only faith by which we are "born again" includes repentance, and a firm decision to turn from serving sin to serving God by following Lord Jesus into a sanctified life of righteousness and love, just as Lord Jesus taught us by example and by teaching.

“The Faith,” as the Scriptures teach, is not a work that earns our salvation; rather, faith includes repentance, and is the sinner’s plea to God for the salvation offered to him by the Gospel so that he may be justified and born again of the Spirit before one work is ever done.

Luke 5:32 (WEB) I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

The sinner is redeemed and saved from the guilt, punishment, and slavery to sin that crushes and burdens him, so that he may have fellowship with God, serving him, that was lost by sin - the Rebirth. And this all starts with godly sorrow over our sins.

Luke 18:13-14 (WEB) 13 But the tax collector, standing far away, wouldn’t even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

2 Corinthians 7:10 (WEB) 10 For godly sorrow produces repentance to salvation, which brings no regret. But the sorrow of the world produces death.

• We receive eternal life by "believing" in Lord Jesus because of the Gospel of Christ (John 3:16).
• "Believing" includes "repentance" to receive forgiveness of sins and to be saved. (Luke 24:46-47; Acts 17:30; 2 Corinthians 7:10)
• A genuine "repentance" must lead to "conversion" to be saved, which is a firm decision to renounce serving sin to instead turn to God, serving him in righteousness. (Acts 3:19; Acts 20:20-21; Acts 26:19-20; Romans 6:1-6)
• We serve God by following Lord Jesus into a sanctified life of righteousness and love to be saved (Matthew 28:19-20; Matthew 10:38; John 10:26-29; John 15:10; 2 Timothy 2:19; Acts 11:26; 1 John 2:3-6; Hebrews 5:9).
• Faith, therefore, is manifested in a commitment to a sanctified life onto God by following Lord Jesus in righteousness and love to be cleansed from all sins we commit in weakness and to be saved (1 Thessalonians 4:1-8; Romans 6:19-22; 1 John 1:5-7; Acts 26:15-20).

Therefore, by faith, as expressed, we commit to walk in that new life of Salvation that Christ purchased for us – a life by which we repent and renounce slaving for sin that condemned us, and commit to follow Lord Jesus in obedience, as he instructed us, to possess this salvation – to follow in His steps into a new life.

Matthew 10:38 (WEB) 38 He who doesn’t take his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me.

Hebrews 5:9 Being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him.

Romans 6:2-4 (WEB) 2 May it never be! We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death, so that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.

By this faith commitment we possess the new birth of the Spirit.

The Spirit indwell, seals, and leads to a new life (the new birth) of righteousness and love to all who manifest their faith in repentance and a commitment to obedience to Christ, just as the Scriptures teach us.

Acts 2:38 (WEB) Peter said to them: Repent [change of mind and purpose], and be Baptized [a public confession to die to the old life of sin, and rise to a new life, following Lord Jesus: 1 Peter 3:21], every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 5:32 (WEB) 32 We are his witnesses of these things; and so also is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.

John 14:15-16 (WEB) 15 If you love me, keep my commandments. 16 I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, that he may be with you forever: 17 the Spirit of truth

John 14:21 (WEB) One who has my commandments and keeps them, that person is one who loves me. One who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him, and will reveal myself to him.

John 14:23 “If any man loves me, he will keep my word. My Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our home with him.”

According to the above Scriptures, by what "faith" will the Spirit indwell to seal and lead us to a new life of salvation - the New Birth?

We are "Born Again" by this Gospel Faith.

This is "The Faith" in Lord Jesus by which we "drink" of the "water of life" (The Spirit) so that the Spirit gives this Eternal Life in us - the New Birth.

As one continues in "The Faith" he continues to "drink" or "sow" to the Spirit, and this is the only faith by which the Spirit {{{gives}}} the person who believes eternal life welling up inside of him.

Galatians 6:7-9 Paul warns the Galatian Christians 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will {{{from the Spirit}}} reap Eternal Life. 9 Let {{{us}}} not be weary in doing good, for {{{we}}} will reap in due season, {{{if we}}} do not give up.

Therefore, a Christian is admonished to remain in the same faith he had by which he received the Spirit so that the Spirit continues to give him Eternal Life welling up inside of him. The one who "drinks" (lives, walks, sows) the Spirit (River of Life) is the true believer in whom the Spirit wells up inside of him unto eternal life.

Thanks Setst for laying out Scripture to me. At the time I don't have much to comment on. Christ love!