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If absolutely everything is predestined, and there is no choice, then wouldn't all have to be saved?
- Thread starter Neogaia777
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Or we have to first hate before we can truly love or learn to truly love afterwards...
And our love will only run or be as deep as our past hatred...
A measure of your "passion"...
God Bless!
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- Oct 10, 2011
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About our or their choices... His (God, the Father's) knowledge about them...
We have to proceed as if we do have a choice or make choices, cause He's (God, the Father) is not telling us what he knows about them...
God Bless!
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Kaon
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Not.
This reality is for us to see why we end up where we end up. Everything has already happened. It doesn't dissolve our responsibility for our choices.
If you "just existed," and wanted to know why you are in Heaven or Hell - here you go (life.) These decisions in this life reflect why you are already where you are supposed to be. The decisions - reaction to the world around you - you make in this life are your answer as to why you deserve to be wherever you are. Pre-destination is just a constraint to let us know there will be no wild cards, surprises or fluidity: everything that is supposed to happen is happening, and will happen, and has already happened.
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Devin P
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I believe that this was because He promised Abraham that all that came from him (Abraham) would be blessed.
I believe He did it not because of Esau, but because of Abraham.
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Not specifically, but it does say we were all once enemies of God, and God doesn't like his enemies... And he speaks of his hatred for his enemies...
God Bless!
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- Sep 18, 2010
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I think that will be hard to prove from scripture, that everything is predestined and we have no free will in that. That sounds awefully a lot like fate, and that isn't very biblical.
The fact is that everything has not allready happend, we still have our free will and choices to make and this is the present moment. Now we choose. That is responsibility. We are not sitting on a train predestined to some location, rather we sit in a car choosing our on turns and breaks. God has it all on tape, He can fast forward or backward but deals with us in the present moment.
The bible encourages us to walk in the plan God has for us. So there is a plan for us, but we have to choose to walk according to that plan. That's where obedience comes in.
"we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." /Eph 2:10
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Kaon
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You think we have free will?
Free will to do what? Prophecy is our proof of predestinstion.
No fallen entity has "free will." That is a human romanticism. We have the limited will to (re)act to our surroundings, and how we choose to sin or not sin.
If you believe you have "freedom" to determine the trajectory of your life, you ha e been deceived. No one is their own god, and no one is in control of their destiny. That is why, for now, the metaphor used was about a yoke: Christ's yoke is easy, while every other entity's yoke is harsh.
Only holy entities have free will, and they abdicate 100% of it to the Most High God. Look at Christ. Free will is an invention for the fragility of the human mind reconciling existentialism. It works, though.
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- Sep 18, 2010
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How does it feel for you? Do you feel you have free will, or does it feel like someone is choosing for you?
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Kaon
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I meant exactly what I said.
I know I don't have free will, I have the freedom to respond to life. However, I also know that I am still responsible for my own decisions.
Knowing that I don't have free will has made me a lot more empathetic, because my mind is no longer occupied by ignorant, often regurgitated, sophomoric life tropes about how and why everyone is in the state they are in (finance, health, etc.) Everyone has already been given their own unique cross to bear; it should be very obvious that one's life has been chosen for us - in terms of circumstance.
Do you honestly think God would afford SINNERS a free will? That goes against everything He has said to us.
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- Sep 18, 2010
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Yes I do! And I think you are wrong that the scripture teaches otherwise. We are over and over in the Word called upon to make a choice.
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Kaon
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Where does God say we have free will? Where is that phrase?
On the other hand, there are many times where God explicitly tells us the plans He has laid our us. It should go without saying that we do not have free will, but it feels better to believe we have control. That is a problem of carnality.
We have the limited will to choose how we respond to our surroundings, but the trajectory of our lives? No. It has already been written. I know this is a terribly anti-western sentiment, but we are not the masters of our own destiny. God is in control, not you, me or any other entity. Everything that is supposed to happen has already happned which is one reason why prophecy is solid.
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- Sep 18, 2010
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You said you know you don't have free will. I didn't ask what you know, I asked what you feel.
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