If absolutely everything is predestined, and there is no choice, then wouldn't all have to be saved?

[Neogaia777]

Even if I did manage to make even one point, I feel like most of you, would just be and do like the Bible says, and look at your faces in the mirror (of truth, or a truth), then nearly instantly, just look away and completely forget about it all (and go back to the world and the ways of the world) anyway...

So, what is the point...?

God Bless!

Carried away (from the truth) by every manner and wind of teaching (of the world) never coming to a full knowledge or understanding of the truth (God's truth) (choosing the world instead)...

God Bless!

 

[Grip Docility]

I feel like giving up...

Everyone seems to have very limited views and narrow understanding... They can't seem to even comprehend the basic difference between God the Father, and God the Son... Heck, most don't even think of the Son being YHWH (yet)... Let alone comprehend the Father apart from that...

Maybe it's time for me to submit... Submit my will to the Father's will and just give up on all of "this"... Trying to get people to understand... I feel like none of my points, no matter how well made, are just not getting through to anyone...

But i'm driven, I feel compelled to do this, but, it feels like it's all very futile and in vain...

Cast my care... give it all to God... and give up trying to do it myself... Let the chips fall where they may... Let the world be ignorant, and go like lemmings over a cliff into their destruction... It will break my heart, and it will be very hard to do that, but maybe I should... Maybe I must...

Everyone seems to be going their own way, no matter how wrong that way is, and very, very few seem very willing to change it all, or ever...

Maybe it's time to just "let go and let God"... Realize he is in control and I can do nothing...

God Bless!

Giving up... aka Surrendering... AKA be still and know that “HE IS GOD”... and it is HIM that “Fights for us”

As in Exodus 14:14



Nothing to it but to “do it”.

Spoiler

As far as the complexities you’re pondering... do you really want to broach these matters?

To some people... these things can confuse and cripple them... and with all 1 John 2:27 Understanding comes much sorrow...

“They’re plugged in and their minds are too set to be freed from the system”

But above all... The highest wisdom we can genuinely understand... and yet dodge for a lifetime is simply that “there is a God and I’m not Him”.

To me, God the Son is and always has been the very Body... and Flesh of God. God the Father is the very Mind of God and The Holy Spirit of God is the Soul of God... and ofcoarse... they function independently and simultaneously... yet are always in perfect, righteous harmony.

Our body, soul and mind is never in perfect, righteous harmony...

Surrender is our most imperative coarse of action.

To be direct... there is a difference between knowing the path and walking it.

Being still is the hardest thing we can ever do...

As far as theologically understanding why we fail and such forth... the very fact that it is written that His power is perfected in our weakness is more than enough to carry us through height, depth and any spiritual force that contends for us.

All Love and Blessings to you, Brother In Him,

 

[fat wee robin]

That's why I said I didn't know if it was right or not... I was just speaking for the majority...

I do know that scripture and had it in mind when I said, I didn't know if it/that was right or not, and is why I said it...

But, how many people are going to be saying this to God, if everything and I mean everything, was preordered, or preordained, or predestined, and most don't know that scripture, (or very much (of) any scripture for that matter)...

And what does that mean...?

What about the ones that had no choice in being wicked and get judged at the judgement and go to hell...?

What are they being judged for (they might say)...?eally like to hear what God says, if that is the case... I know he will justify himself somehow, if that is the case (I'm confident about that)... I just can't figure it out...?

God Bless!

The kind of questions one asks, indicate the level of awareness and developement of the 'soul'
of a person . We are living in a school and in many ways while the bible hints at scientific and
more difficult questions ,it's purpose is to train the undeveloped soul to know and to act in accordance with God's will ,which can be seen in the laws of the Universe .
Just as a young child needs continual guidance ,step by step so do the souls which have just come up from 'hell'.
Most of the bible as it is used ,is for new souls ,stressing the basics neccessary to bring a soul into the basic alignment with God's will . Without this there would not be any moral beings or society ,and we would not have advanced ,but destroyed society and ourselves long ago .
Since Jesus we have grown in number ,as souls are brought up from hell ,and those 'saved ', have in many cases become the great scientists etc who have brought us the internet etc .

Most christians who do not ask difficult questions and are afraid to do so in case their faith is not strong enough yet . They are worried they might fall at the first change in the story they have been told .
More developed ones who have walked with God have less fear, as they have been shown that no matter what they ask ,God always answers with a most Logical and complete answer .

 

[Neogaia777]

Carried away (from the truth) by every manner and wind of teaching (of the world) never coming to a full knowledge or understanding of the truth (God's truth) (choosing the world instead)...

God Bless!

It's really depressing to (just) (sit back and do nothing) and watch...

God Bless!

 

[zoidar]

I can't say... It very might be for some of you, but only God and yourselves can know or say for sure...

It's important cause it might be necessary for some of you...

God Bless!

If you believe so I understand your concern for people and your will to inform people. As I see it the important thing is not understanding everything, but walking with Christ, to have a relationship with him, and in this some questions get unswered and others don't. What we need is to know God's undending love for all of us, that's the drive to living for him and to love others like He does.

 

[Grip Docility]

It's really depressing to (just) (sit back and do nothing) and watch...

God Bless!

Then it is on your heart to “do something”...

It sounds like “Love” is compelling you forward and surrender is allowing you to be utilized as His vessel of Love to all.

Utter surrender draws forth utter service that can become unknown to even the servant... and in that way... doing nothing becomes impossible.

 

[Neogaia777]

Then it is on your heart to “do something”...

It sounds like “Love” is compelling you forward and surrender is allowing you to be utilized as His vessel of Love to all.

Utter surrender draws forth utter service that can become unknown to even the servant... and in that way... doing nothing becomes impossible.

Sometimes it seems that utter surrender, and the compelling nature of utter service, (or drive and will to do) are opposed, or are at opposite ends of the spectrum...

And there seems to be a certain kind of conflict in that (kind of love, or nature, I guess)...

God Bless!

 

[Grip Docility]

Sometimes it seems that utter surrender, and the compelling nature of utter service, (or drive and will to do) are opposed, or are at opposite ends of the spectrum...

And there seems to be a certain kind of conflict in that (kind of love, or nature, I guess)...

God Bless!

And yet... being still and trusting Him is wise... lest we “make Ishmael”...

 

[Neogaia777]

And yet... being still and trusting Him is wise... lest we “make Ishmael”...

I go back and forth...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I know just tell people to love people right...

Well, if they don't "grow up", doing that right, (and in a way that might save us) is going to next to impossible...

God Bless!

 

[Grip Docility]

I go back and forth...

God Bless!

Amen! “Father... if possible... let this cup pass from me... nevertheless... Your Will, not mine be done”...

Interesting ... that Jesus highlighted this very struggle in a most immense way...

 

[Neogaia777]

I know just tell people to love people right...

Well, if they don't "grow up", doing that right, (and in a way that might save us) is going to next to impossible...

God Bless!

People of and belonging to the world, are mean, cruel, bitter, angry, and hateful people at their core, (envious, jealous) and they try to "cover it up" by smearing what appears to a little bit of love on the surface, but really is not, not deep down... (it's fake)...

Anyway, and that "mentality" (that core) is what they need grow up and out of, and get over, and change, or it's going to be the demise of us all...

But, it's next to impossible to change them, they being in the world and from and a part of the world...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

People of and belonging to the world, are mean, cruel, bitter, angry, and hateful people at their core, (envious, jealous) and they try to "cover it up" by smearing what appears to a little bit of love on the surface, but really is not, not deep down... (it's fake)...

Anyway, and that "mentality" (that core) is what they need grow up and out of, and get over, and change, or it's going to be the demise of us all...

But, it's next to impossible to change them, they being in the world and from and a part of the world...

God Bless!

And uncaring, unkind, cold, callous, and cruel... And that is the truth about them, anyone belonging to world and it's ways... I hate it when they try to be nice and pretend to be nice to me or others, when who they really are (inside) is a whole other different story...

They are fake... Very fake... And I'm wanting them not to necessarily show their true colors, and be at all comfortable with who they really are and accept it, but change it/them...

God Bless!

 

[Kenny'sID]

But, if God (the Father) doesn't tell anyone else, (including God, the Son) then what choice do we (all) have but to proceed as if we do have choice in the matter or have a free will in the matter...?

God Bless!

Tell them what?

 

[Devin P]

If absolutely everything and all is predestined, and there is no choice in anything, then wouldn't all have to be saved...?

Or not...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

Everything is predestined, but not in the way I believe you're thinking on it.

We have free will, but before we were even born, God knew what our choice would be: Him, or the world.

He worked about His plan of salvation through all of our choices, before we could make them, because He already knew what our choices would be. He's always an infinite amount of steps ahead of anything we could do, because He already knows whether or not we'll choose Him, or the world.

So, you have free will, and in a sense, you've already chosen whether or not you'll be after His heart, or your own. We'll all stumble occasionally, for sure, but the important thing is that we work on successfully walking out repentance. Turning back to Him, and desiring Truth enough to cast off what we've been taught and learned and walk in the Way that He has given us and those before us to do.

 

[zoidar]

Everything is predestined, but not in the way I believe you're thinking on it.

We have free will, but before we were even born, God knew what our choice would be: Him, or the world.

He worked about His plan of salvation through all of our choices, before we could make them, because He already knew what our choices would be. He's always an infinite amount of steps ahead of anything we could do, because He already knows whether or not we'll choose Him, or the world.

So, you have free will, and in a sense, you've already chosen whether or not you'll be after His heart, or your own. We'll all stumble occasionally, for sure, but the important thing is that we work on successfully walking out repentance. Turning back to Him, and desiring Truth enough to cast off what we've been taught and learned and walk in the Way that He has given us and those before us to do.

I agree with you except the part that we have allready made the choice if we are to follow Christ. Even God knows our choices we have free will in each choice every day and moment. But maybe you meant that?

 

[fat wee robin]

I go back and forth...

God Bless!

 

[fat wee robin]

There is free will, and that is a great proof that the Father is amazing. He does not want robots, he wants children that want to love him and want to be righteous. He is God, so he could have created us all exactly how he wanted and unable to sin, but then we would have no personality. Our faults and unique differences is what makes us his children, instead of just his creation.

The Word of God tells us how we are judged, and even stated "the Father judgeth no man". God in fact has no say at all and does not pick favorites, those that go to Heaven is judged by the "Son", which means "he that heareth my word". I posted else where, but Jesus is the Word of God...the Bible....if you learn it and obey it, you will go to Heaven. That is the glory of the Father, at the end people asking "why did you send me to the Lake of Fire!?" The Lord will reply very simply, "I sent you no where, your feet guided you to where you are". The Father knows everything, he knows what we will choose and where we will go, but he does not force our hand. He waits for us to damn ourselves, so we know it was our choice. He could create us day 1 and then on day 2 have the white throne of judgment, telling his new creation "you are going to the lake of fire because you will be evil, so no reason to waste anyone's time". But that would not be just, and the Father is putting himself and everyone else through the evil of this world so we will be a witness for ourselves at the end.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Yes God could have created Robots ,but instead He created free will agents who have given Him a headache ever since ,but as you say He wanted children who would love Him,not just creatures .

 

[Devin P]

I agree with you except the part that we have allready made the choice if we are to follow Christ. Even God knows our choices we have free will in each choice every day and moment. But maybe you meant that?

Well, as it's written, before they were born, God loved Jacob, and hated Esau. He felt that way, because, just as the lamb was slain before the foundation of the earth, God isn't subject to time. He created time, and is outside of it.

He hated Esau before he was born, because He knew what Esau would do, and that Esau would reject Him. He loved Jacob, because He knew that Jacob would desire Him. We already have chosen. Maybe not in this timeline, but He already knows who will and who won't be after His Heart. Meaning that certain people, out of their own freewill, because of the gift He blesses us with, will choose Him, and certain people will reject the gift that He gives to them. Some will reject, and some will accept.

I agree that God knows our choices, and He knows when we will mess up, and when we will succeed. This is how He was able to prophesy about our actions. So, in a way we cannot change what will happen, the only thing we can do, is praise Him, and walk our walk of repentance and constantly check ourselves to make sure we're living as His word says we should be living, and not the ways that our traditions and father's say we should live. Because our traditions as Jesus points out, are almost never compatible with God's word unfortunately.

 

[zoidar]

Well, as it's written, before they were born, God loved Jacob, and hated Esau. He felt that way, because, just as the lamb was slain before the foundation of the earth, God isn't subject to time. He created time, and is outside of it.

He hated Esau before he was born, because He knew what Esau would do, and that Esau would reject Him. He loved Jacob, because He knew that Jacob would desire Him. We already have chosen. Maybe not in this timeline, but He already knows who will and who won't be after His Heart. Meaning that certain people, out of their own freewill, because of the gift He blesses us with, will choose Him, and certain people will reject the gift that He gives to them. Some will reject, and some will accept.

I agree that God knows our choices, and He knows when we will mess up, and when we will succeed. This is how He was able to prophesy about our actions. So, in a way we cannot change what will happen, the only thing we can do, is praise Him, and walk our walk of repentance and constantly check ourselves to make sure we're living as His word says we should be living, and not the ways that our traditions and father's say we should live. Because our traditions as Jesus points out, are almost never compatible with God's word unfortunately.

I'm not in agreement with that.

God didn't hate Esau, He just didn't choose him to be the progenitor to Christ.

Of course God sees it through foreknowledge like our choices are allready made, but at the same time He deals with each choice in the present moment. Example, he won't reward someone for a future choice until the time where that choice is made.