Identity

[GraceDriven]

Should one lose ones self to make another one love them? We are talking in a marriage here.

Would that be putting someone's needs and welfare above our own? Is that what God would want?

 

[ValleyGal]

You can't make someone else love you, even if you "lose yourself" trying. If your spouse can't love you for the genuine you, then they won't ever love you; they are in love with some semblance of another "you" that you are trying to be. It is misleading to lose yourself to make him love you, too. And no, losing yourself to make someone else love you is not putting their needs and welfare above your own. Quite the contrary; it is misleading and deceptive, and if you are not the person they are in love with, it is not in their best interest to try because that would be living a lie - and lying is not in anyone's best interest.

Putting someone else's needs above your own means being your genuine self and genuinely meeting their needs from the love that motivate sacrificial acts - notice I say acts, and that has nothing to do with sacrificing identity or personhood. Here's what it looks like: a husband moving the washing machine in order to retrieve and dispose of the dead rat behind it. Or like a wife quitting her job and packing up her life to move when her husband receives a lucrative job offer in a different town. Or like a husband giving up the lucrative job in another town so that she does not have to leave her family who she provides care for. Or like a wife who leaves her job in order to stay home and raise their children.... it's like doing (a verb, not an identity) things that are in the other's best interest. It's believing in the other, thinking the best of the other, etc.

 

[mkgal1]

Should one lose ones self to make another one love them? We are talking in a marriage here.

Would that be putting someone's needs and welfare above our own? Is that what God would want?

No.....I don't believe that would be what God would want. YOU were created to be YOU---not to be absorbed into another person's version of who you should be (presuming you're not a lying narcissist).

I don't even believe the Bible ever says, "putting someone's needs and welfare above our own". Where are you getting that from in the Bible? I can think of Philippians 2:4....but that says, "Don't look out only for your own interests, but take an interest in others, too." To me......there's an equal priority (and one isn't sacrificed for the other's sake).

 

[GraceDriven]

No.....I don't believe that would be what God would want. YOU were created to be YOU---not to be absorbed into another person's version of who you should be (presuming you're not a lying narcissist). ).

Do I appear to be a lying narcissist? I have been called a lot of things in the last few years. I tend to be sensitive...

I don't even believe the Bible ever says, "putting someone's needs and welfare above our own". Where are you getting that from in the Bible? I can think of Philippians 2:4....but that says, "Don't look out only for your own interests, but take an interest in others, too." To me......there's an equal priority (and one isn't sacrificed for the other's sake).

I was repeating what Valley Girl had said in another thread. I think that love is often putting needs and welfare of others first. But I do agree that if you constantly putting out - you will run out of fuel sooner or later.

It is not fun being around him. I don't have the energy for it anymore.

 

[mkgal1]

Do I appear to be a lying narcissist?

No not at all.

Sorry I didn't express that very well :/

 

[mkgal1]

It is not fun being around him. I don't have the energy for it anymore.

(((HUGS))) There's a term "emotional vampire" (that comes from a book by the same name) and until a person experiences it.....(as you seem to be) they just can't understand just how draining it is. The only thing I can suggest is for you to try to offset that by figuring out your boundaries and giving yourself the freedom to do things for YOU.

 

[ValleyGal]

Do I appear to be a lying narcissist? I have been called a lot of things in the last few years. I tend to be sensitive...


I was repeating what Valley Girl had said in another thread. I think that love is often putting needs and welfare of others first. But I do agree that if you constantly putting out - you will run out of fuel sooner or later.

It is not fun being around him. I don't have the energy for it anymore.

Just to clarify - I don't believe that one person in the relationship should be always sacrificial and the other not. Relationships are reciprocal, so sacrifice should be reciprocated when appropriate, but I also believe in firm boundaries. If one is making sacrifices and one isn't (and expects the other to always make them), then that is a lopsided relationship and will not last long without one being emotionally and spiritually crushed (what I believe the OP is referring to regarding "losing identity"). Love includes strong boundaries. After all, it is not loving to allow someone else to treat you poorly or emotionally beat your identity out of you. It is loving to teach the other to take responsibility for how they treat you.

Grace, take responsibility for your self by protecting your identity. Learning boundaries can certainly teach him how he can and can't treat you - what you will and will not accept and how you will and will not respond.

 

[Dave-W]

I don't even believe the Bible ever says, "putting someone's needs and welfare above our own". Where are you getting that from in the Bible? I can think of Philippians 2:4....but that says, "Don't look out only for your own interests, but take an interest in others, too." To me......there's an equal priority (and one isn't sacrificed for the other's sake).

OK lets look at that verse.

First off - the "only" or as some versions have "merely" is not in the Greek at all. So that renders the first phrase "Don't look out for your own interests..." that changes the whole idea.

Secondly - the Greek word rendered in your version as "too," can be translated a number of ways. It is kai (strongs G2532) which can be translated as any of these words depending on context: and, also, both, but, even, for, if, or, so, that, then, therefore, when, yet. If we have to get rid of the "only," then the "also" or "too" makes little sense. So if we take it as "therefore," we get this wording:

"Don't look out for your own interests, but therefore take an interest in others."

That changes it quite a bit, don't you think?

 

[GraceDriven]

OK lets look at that verse.

First off - the "only" or as some versions have "merely" is not in the Greek at all. So that renders the first phrase "Don't look out for your own interests..." that changes the whole idea.

Secondly - the Greek word rendered in your version as "too," can be translated a number of ways. It is kai (strongs G2532) which can be translated as any of these words depending on context: and, also, both, but, even, for, if, or, so, that, then, therefore, when, yet. If we have to get rid of the "only," then the "also" or "too" makes little sense. So if we take it as "therefore," we get this wording:

"Don't look out for your own interests, but therefore take an interest in others."

That changes it quite a bit, don't you think?

But what should one do when the other person is always putting their interests before yours? What happens when boundaries are cross in terms of putting someone else first and slowly it chips away at who you are or who you really think you should be to that person?

 

[Dave-W]

But what should one do when the other person is always putting their interests before yours? What happens when boundaries are cross in terms of putting someone else first and slowly it chips away at who you are or who you really think you should be to that person?

Turn the other cheek.

Luke 17:33 Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

When you are looking at remediating the negative impact of what the other person is doing or not doing; you are seeking to save your own life.

 

[GraceDriven]

Turn the other cheek.

Luke 17:33 Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

Now, I know why people in the masses have walked away from religion. I have seen scripture taken out of context often. I don't think God would not want me to not stand up for myself especially when the consequences involves others outside of myself.

I am married to an atheist by the way. And he definitely, 80% of the time thinks about himself - which goes along with the rest of population. He is just keeping up with everyone else.

 

[Dave-W]

I don't think God would not want me to not stand up for myself especially when the consequences involves others outside of myself.

No. You stand up for THEM - not yourself.

 

[GraceDriven]

No. You stand up for THEM - not yourself.

By standing up for me I am standing up for them.

 

[mkgal1]

Grace, take responsibility for your self by protecting your identity. Learning boundaries can certainly teach him how he can and can't treat you - what you will and will not accept and how you will and will not respond.

I absolutely agree.

Grace--do you see the category "Married Women Personal Topics" (does this link work for you: http://www.christianforums.com/forums/married-women-personal-topics.1113/ ? ) Maybe it would be better to take this discussion there?

 

[razzelflabben]

Should one lose ones self to make another one love them? We are talking in a marriage here.

Would that be putting someone's needs and welfare above our own? Is that what God would want?

there are two things about this OP I don't understand...1. how do you make another one love you? Love is not something forced or coerced, it is either freely given or it is not Love. So, please clarify here what you mean. 2. How do you lose yourself? What do you mean by this? Do you mean just putting the other person ahead of yourself or do you mean denying who you are so that you can pretend to be someone you are not in hopes that the other person will love you?

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[mkgal1]

Now, I know why people in the masses have walked away from religion. I have seen scripture taken out of context often. I don't think God would not want me to not stand up for myself especially when the consequences involves others outside of myself.

I totally agree with you. Hearing this "door mat theology"--especially when you're already hurting (suggesting that's what God wants of us) completely goes against His goodness. God certainly doesn't want people using others up until they have nothing left (and encouraging those that are being used to keep on giving MORE ---that's enabling selfishness and pride---things God detests). The Bible emphasizes over and over again that His desire is to bring those that are prideful down low and those that are humble to be lifted up.

As I said earlier, people that haven't experienced what you're going through just don't understand (but, unfortunately, they heap on even more burden rather than having compassion).

 

[mkgal1]

 

[razzelflabben]

add to Phil. 2:4, Romans 15:1 and Phil. 2:21...the totality of scripture is important here. But one thing I want to mention that no one else seems to be doing is that Love that is Biblical Love always has a purpose or goal. The purpose or goal of Love is reconciliation/restoration. That means that everything done in Love is for the purpose of bringing about reconciliation/restoration, first to God and secondly to others, including but not limited to ourselves. Sometimes that involves our giving in, sometimes it involves standing firm, just like we see in Christ's examples throughout His earthly ministry.

 

[mkgal1]

In order to protect our love for others---boundaries are imperative. Pastor and author Danny Silk does an excellent job (I think) at describing this. Here's a link to some of his resources: http://www.lovingonpurpose.com/podcast/

 

[mkgal1]

For everyone that's posting to Grace and suggesting that she give MORE...sacrifice MORE and that this is what God wants of her, you may want to take a look at her profile page. I doubt she'll be back here. Let's just hope that this doesn't affect her faith in God (and only her faith in churches/communities).

She's right. This *is* what's driving people out of the church (and faith-based communities).