Identify?

[gitlance]

He has a compeltely valid point - and from his perspective ECUSA left him. Everythign Lance stands for can be backed up as Christian. Everything ECUSA stands for takes a lot more wrangling to fit into Christianity. That is fine and I can live with it, but we have to be honest about ECUSA and Anglicanism.

This is exactly how I feel. Thank you for saying that.

I did not want to make this decision, but given the circumstances I feel that there is no other choice. I just wanted to make sure everyone knew that it wasn't for personal reasons, but rather for doctrinal reasons, that I am making this decision. I love everyone here very much.

 

[gitlance]

I apologize if this has started a war. That was not my intention. I just felt that some people were a little confused about why I am leaving (guess I haven't officially left, yet, since I'm not yet confirmed Catholic).

I presume that statement has been there for awhile, and of course it never affected my theology or probably anyone else's in the Church. My concern, I suppose, is for those (like I did) who have their first interaction with the Church through that webpage.

Now, of course the Church has never officially held the view of transubstantiation or some such thing. But, if we were to go back to the articles or to the BCP, we would find an historic Anglican belief in at least a spiritual presence of Christ in the Eucharist. I suppose that statement just disturbed me a bit when it doesn't seem to take into account any sort of presence of Christ.

I apologize for causing strife.

 

[PaladinValer]

From the Visitor's Centre. A page full of short one-paragraph explainations to help visitors understand the terms that they encounter, using words that are in common use among such unchurched Americans as don't already know what a "Eucharist" is, and without making a theological argument for one churchmanship over another. It does not say "only a symbol", and even high sacramentalists agree that a sacrament must also symbolize the grace that it effects.

Basically, this is about what I'd say.

I'd also say "Fallacy of Appealing to Ignorance." It doesn't say it is only a symbol, as Pam says. It doesn't say that it is truly God's BBSD, but it doesn't say that it isn't either.

Lance, I'm sorry, but this really was a cheap shot and deep down, you know it too. I have a feeling that a bunch of us know the real reasons why you left Anglicanism, and if that is really the reason you want to use, sobeit. If those in OBOB knew them, however, they'd probably ask you to think harder and more logically before you do anything rash.

As they often say, "it is better to be a good non-(V)Catholic than a bad (V)Catholic." To that, I would have to agree.

 

[higgs2]

I apologize if this has started a war. That was not my intention. I just felt that some people were a little confused about why I am leaving (guess I haven't officially left, yet, since I'm not yet confirmed Catholic).

I presume that statement has been there for awhile, and of course it never affected my theology or probably anyone else's in the Church. My concern, I suppose, is for those (like I did) who have their first interaction with the Church through that webpage.

Now, of course the Church has never officially held the view of transubstantiation or some such thing. But, if we were to go back to the articles or to the BCP, we would find an historic Anglican belief in at least a spiritual presence of Christ in the Eucharist. I suppose that statement just disturbed me a bit when it doesn't seem to take into account any sort of presence of Christ.

I apologize for causing strife.

I don't think you have caused any strife here, don't feel bad about that. I just pray that you will find some peace.

 

[gitlance]

Basically, this is about what I'd say.

I'd also say "Fallacy of Appealing to Ignorance." It doesn't say it is only a symbol, as Pam says. It doesn't say that it is truly God's BBSD, but it doesn't say that it isn't either.

Lance, I'm sorry, but this really was a cheap shot and deep down, you know it too. I have a feeling that a bunch of us know the real reasons why you left Anglicanism, and if that is really the reason you want to use, sobeit. If those in OBOB knew them, however, they'd probably ask you to think harder and more logically before you do anything rash.

As they often say, "it is better to be a good non-(V)Catholic than a bad (V)Catholic." To that, I would have to agree.

If I were to publicly give every single reason why I am leaving, I am afraid it would cause some people to feel ostracized. That is not my intent. I refuse to make anyone here think that I have a personal problem with any Episcopalian. So, I have refrained from publicly giving every reason, so as to not make some people feel uneasy.

 

[higgs2]

If I were to publicly give every single reason why I am leaving, I am afraid it would cause some people to feel ostracized. That is not my intent. I refuse to make anyone here think that I have a personal problem with any Episcopalian. So, I have refrained from publicly giving every reason, so as to not make some people feel uneasy.

I think people are okay with not knowing your reasons, please don't worry. You are not making people uneasy and you have not started a war. I wish you joy in the Roman Catholic church.

 

[pmcleanj]

Um, Higgs? Have you been into the peroxide?

 

[higgs2]

Um, Higgs? Have you been into the peroxide?

um ...

yes

 

[gtsecc]

I fail to see what is wrong with the description

But, that is because you don't see any need to know much about eucharistic theology. That is perfectly fine, but you should be aware you are arriving there from a position of ignorance, not from one who has read really anything at all about Eucharistic theology. If you are genuinely currious, I would suggest Schemann's For The Life of the World.

 

[cathromang]

Does anyone remember that first breakup with someone?
That first love?
How you thought I will never ever love anyone again?
Then you think about how, man if things could just be different we could be together again?

Both of you went on to better things - usually.
But that break is HARD.

You grow to love a church and it's people. But sometimes things change, and just like in a relationship you come to realize no matter how much you love someone or something you realize that things have changed, you can't live with the change, and it's best for the break-up.

Git could be feeling some of that. I know, cause I'm currently one of those "hanging by a thread" Anglicans (as I think some of you are aware by some of my "hysteria".) I don't know what Git's reasons are, mine came when in 03 when they voted down the motion to continue following S,T, and R.

As someone stated earlier, the pendulum could swing back the other way - but that's a symptom of a bipolar disorder .

For Git though do me a favor. Love him and try to show support for him and realize that this is a type of heartache for him. I know, I'm there too.

If he can't talk to you guys about it, who can he talk to? He's not trying to flame the church, but just explain some of his reasonings - kind of thinking out loud, if I don't miss my guess.
Besides, I'm the one always going off - not Git.

I'll write something soon I'm sure, as I sit here wearing my brand new Caterpillar cap.

Git, my prayers for you brother

 

[Aymn27]

I fail to see what is wrong with the description

roflmao!! I knew you wouldn't!!! LOLOL.....I love ya Naomi (even though I don't agree with ya always!!)

 

[higgs2]

roflmao!! I knew you wouldn't!!! LOLOL.....I love ya Naomi (even though I don't agree with ya always!!)

I know, isn't she great?

 

[Naomi4Christ]

I know, isn't she great?

:o

 

[Fish and Bread]

Hey, someone's awake. How is your morning going, Noami? It's still evening hereabouts. Well, 2:25am, which I suppose is technically morning, but it's dark.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

Hey, someone's awake. How is your morning going, Noami? It's still evening hereabouts. Well, 2:25am, which I suppose is technically morning, but it's dark.

I'm catching some Olympic action and about to get everyone ready to be out the door for church.

 

[Fish and Bread]

I'm catching some Olympic action and about to get everyone ready to be out the door for church.

For some reason, I've never really been a big fan of the Olympics. I think it's because whenever I find an Olympic sport that I'm vaguely interested in, such as basketball, baseball, or hockey, the coverage goes something like this: Five minutes of action, followed by seven minutes of commericals even though there is only a one minute break in play, followed by a cutaway to ballroom dancing or some such, followed by seven more minutes of commercials, etc. In the end, I can only see a very small portion of the games I want to watch, because of all the cutaways to other events I don't want to watch and commercial breaks that overlap with the action. So, I gave up on the Olympics around 1992. Hopefully the coverage overseas is a bit better!

 

[Naomi4Christ]

For some reason, I've never really been a big fan of Hopefully the coverage overseas is a bit better!

It's not hard to be better than US coverage!

We are very blessed with TV coverage of major sporting events. The BBC, which is commercial free, covers everything and you virtually watch what you want via the interactive TV (as many as 8 different live feeds). We also have Eurosport which is fairly comprehensive.

 

[higgs2]

:o

 

[Naomi4Christ]

But, that is because you don't see any need to know much about eucharistic theology.

Correct. There is no need to know anything about theology or any other form of knowledge in order to be saved. The key thing is faith. I'm sorry that you find faith in reading just about any academic reference book, and not in the Bible itself.

That is not to say that I have read nothing about the Christian faith outside of the Bible. I have a reasonable bookshelf, if I say so myself. But I don't need to read these books for my own faith, although I do find them useful in my teaching ministry. There is a big difference between needing and wanting.

If you are genuinely currious, I would suggest Schemann's For The Life of the World.

And I recommend to you, Evangelical Eucharistic Thought in the Church of England by Christopher Cocksworth

 

[gtsecc]

And I recommend to you, Evangelical Eucharistic Thought in the Church of England by Christopher Cocksworth

Ok.
I'll make you a deal.
You read
For the Life of the World: Sacraments and Orthodoxy (Paperback)
by Alexander Schmemann
and I'll read Evangelicals Eucharistic Thought in the Church of England.