IDD is Gone

[Debi1967]

IDD is gone and a great deal of the reason is because from what I could tell it was a protestant stance against a RCC stance.
Now I have a question for people. Why do we all have such a negative view of the RCC when we get most of core teachings from them to begin with?
Trinity RCC
There are protestant religions that believe in Saints not just RCC and the Mother Mary
and confession and so forth.
So the ceremony is different and that is what makes wrong I guess.
To me this seems a little odd. But then again I am strange I have to keep reminding myself of this because my logic seems logical only to me I guess.

 

[BAChristian]

I very rarely see anyone say can we agree to disagree??

...and that's a major problem around here -- you're absolutely right.

There are a handful of people around here that just can't stand the fact that someone disagrees with them and they make it their sole purpose in life to refute anything and everything that they can.

We can only pray for those people...

 

[tigersnare]

There are a handful of people around here that just can't stand the fact that someone disagrees with them and they make it their sole purpose in life to refute anything and everything that they can.

We can only pray for those people...

What he said.

 

[Debi1967]

...and that's a major problem around here -- you're absolutely right.

There are a handful of people around here that just can't stand the fact that someone disagrees with them and they make it their sole purpose in life to refute anything and everything that they can.

We can only pray for those people...

That is what I say do you know how hard it is for me to get messages from people telling me not to listen to anything that Catholics say? All I am trying to do is learn and I am being told not to even do that because there is some taboo to it or something. And I guess that is what has me a little peeved right now. Everyone has the right to express there opinion but not at the expense of others. I shouldn't talk though because before I was properly educated to few things I fell into that line of thinking at times too. Now I just wish it would stop.

 

[tigersnare]

Now I just wish it would stop.

Convert to Catholicism! ..Joke...I hear ya loud and clear, now that my eyes have been opened to "the other side", I'm trying to show my Protestant friends how catholics aren't evil. Not an easy task.

 

[Debi1967]

Convert to Catholicism! ..Joke...I hear ya loud and clear, now that my eyes have been opened to "the other side", I'm trying to show my Protestant friends how catholics aren't evil. Not an easy task.

Would it be so bad if I converted to the other side would you still respect me or feel like I left ranks or something?? What if that is where my belief and Faith in Him led me would it be that bad?? I mean we make it sound like a death sentence or something. And if it is part of Christianity which it is then I would still be Christian and so therefore still one of you wouldn't I? We would trying to aquire the same things wouldn't we?

 

[A. believer]

And I challenge anyone in the bible to show me where it says that if you are doing things the way you should which is obey Jesus' commandments believe He is the only way to salvation and all of our other things we hold sacred like the Trinity and such that this behaviour is allowed towards another.

I guess I'm confused about whether your problem is with just plain rudeness and incivility or is your problem with the idea of professing Christians viewing other professing Christians as being outside the pale of orthodoxy for holding certain views?

 

[nyj]

How do you figure? My formal debate with Defens0rFidei took many, many hours (there was no research required) and the time spent on that debate would be worth at least four or five weeks of doing consistent, informal debate.

I guess I'm drawing from my own experiences. I could literally spend hours in IDD (especially "back in the day") posting message upon message and not doing anything else. If I had been forced to post in a Formal Debate Format, I would have been forced to be more organized, use primary resources and "clean up my act". Organization always helps maximize time by minimizing useless activities. Posting ad nauseum in IDD was, IMO, a useless activity.

Typically, and I'm drawing from own experiences here once again, if you're entering into a Formal Debate, you know what resources you will heavily rely on, you have them at your disposal and you are limited to a set amount of information you can divulge at any one time. This is conducive to time efficiency and results in time saved.

Unfortunately, my view of human nature is much more cynical. But we should hope for the best.

Formal Debates are more easily policed. If human nature, as you fear, gets the best of us, the moderators can much more easily step in and correct it. It's also easy to fly off the handle when you know that in a matter of minutes one's spiteful comments will scroll three to five pages off the top page.

 

[Debi1967]

I guess I'm confused about whether your problem is with just plain rudeness and incivility or is your problem with the idea of professing Christians viewing other professing Christians as being outside the pale of orthodoxy for holding certain views?

I stated my problem and my beliefs twice already and it had nothing to do with incivility or rudeness in fact it had quite the opposite. What baffles me is how you are only seeing the parts that if read by themselves could be viewed as such instead of viewing the whole context of meaning which was to encourage civility and nondivision. I have already said that to talk about fundamentals is one thing but to argue about them is still another. Arguing encourages anger and that defeats the purpose of the useful debate to begin with because nothing gets accomplished. that is the cruxt of my argument. Berating each other and demanding that the other uphold our views will get us nowhere. constuctive debate where both sides of the argument are heard in a rational manner and no one is berating or demanding of the other will always be fruitful. Even when talking to another Christian who is not of the same Faith as you I always try to keep in mind Jesus' example of being a good witness. And I never assume that anyone has to believe the same way that I do. In fact far from it. That is why I was given a mind and a conscience and told to pray so that I may make these decisions for myself.

 

[A. believer]

IDD is gone and a great deal of the reason is because from what I could tell it was a protestant stance against a RCC stance.
Now I have a question for people. Why do we all have such a negative view of the RCC when we get most of core teachings from them to begin with?
Trinity RCC
There are protestant religions that believe in Saints not just RCC and the Mother Mary
and confession and so forth.
So the ceremony is different and that is what makes wrong I guess.
To me this seems a little odd. But then again I am strange I have to keep reminding myself of this because my logic seems logical only to me I guess.

No your logic seems logical to the majority of Roman Catholics here, I'm sure, because it's based upon the presuppositions that they keep espousing. In fact, in having accepted those presuppositions as correct, you're making it clear that you're only a stone's throw from converting, yourself. In fact, I suspect that you've already made that decision.

The problem is that the presuppositions, themselves, have not been proven, but are only assumed, and it's that failure to allow the presuppositions to be examined that's made for such a profound failure to communicate on the IDD. This problem isn't limited to Roman Catholics, of course. Protestants who go around asking Roman Catholics/Eastern Orthodox, "Where's that in the Bible?" without being either willing or able to give a reasonable defense for sola Scriptura when questioned are equally guilty of it. And in fact, it's apparent to me that it's the question-begging Protestants who are the most susceptible to the sophist arguments of the question-begging Roman Catholics and/or Eastern Orthodox.

 

[A. believer]

demanding that the other uphold our views will get us nowhere.

Yes, this is what I suspected you might be getting at, and this is exactly what I'm defending. Question begging arguments are simply not helpful. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Debi1967]

Yes, this is what I suspected you might be getting at, and this is exactly what I'm defending. Question begging arguments are simply not helpful. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Well then I agree to disagree respectfully with you.

 

[Preachers12]

Brethren in Christ, God give you Peace.

For what it is worth, I too am saddened and disappointed that IDD was closed. I think it is a mistake and only serves to punish the majority for the actions of a few. As I said on OBOB, I'll leave it at that.

God Bless,
P12

 

[racer]

Really, when you get down to it though, while researching your topic (which is always a good thing) will take some time,

Really? How will researching the topic promote harmony? I have researched many of the topics which I discussed, Ree (A. believer) researched topics, Matt researched topics, Jason researched topics. Did we get any respect or grudging appreciation for actually taking the time to read the fathers, or Keating or Hahn? No. We got accused of misrepresenting them or twisting their words.

 

[nyj]

Really? How will researching the topic promote harmony?

I never said that researching would promote harmony. I said that Formal Debates would have to result in less insult and less ad hominem. Firstly, because one will be more readily accountable for their own comments. Secondly, because with less posts, the moderating staff will have less work to police.

 

[II Paradox II]

I never said that researching would promote harmony. I said that Formal Debates would have to result in less insult and less ad hominem. Firstly, because one will be more readily accountable for their own comments. Secondly, because with less posts, the moderating staff will have less work to police.

`

They probably actually will cultivate a less nasty atmosphere. Unfortunately, it'll probably also lead to a largely dead debate forum, as very few people have the inclination to pursue formal debates. I suspect actually that time isn't so much the issue for most people, but motivation. It's just hard for most to build up the desire to go back and forth in a debate for weeks at a time.

ken

 

[tigersnare]

Would it be so bad if I converted to the other side would you still respect me or feel like I left ranks or something?? What if that is where my belief and Faith in Him led me would it be that bad?? I mean we make it sound like a death sentence or something. And if it is part of Christianity which it is then I would still be Christian and so therefore still one of you wouldn't I? We would trying to aquire the same things wouldn't we?

You're preaching to the choir sister, I am investigating the Catholic faith for myself, I might convert, I might not, either way, I'm still a Christian, and so are the people whom are on the other side of my decision.

 

[Terri]

...and that's a major problem around here -- you're absolutely right.

There are a handful of people around here that just can't stand the fact that someone disagrees with them and they make it their sole purpose in life to refute anything and everything that they can.

We can only pray for those people...

Yes, this is true. And most of those people find it necessary to come into this forum and put us down because our beliefs are different from theirs.

 

[Debi1967]

You're preaching to the choir sister, I am investigating the Catholic faith for myself, I might convert, I might not, either way, I'm still a Christian, and so are the people whom are on the other side of my decision.

Already made my decision. Well actually i made just before although I was leaning that way anyway. So I am there now I have made the choice and I have changed my icon because of it. I am a baby and don't know all yet but I am willing to learn from those that are willing to help me. But I do know this part of my decision was made upon the fact that I was accepted even though I did not agree because I asked questions and they did not ask me nor want me to convert but instead just answered.

 

[Motor City Christian]

I am glad the IDD forum was closed. It seemed like there were more outright attacks on both sides. I was appalled with the hurtful things said and done on BOTH sides. If people could settle down and discuss things civily, we wouldn't have this problem.