Ibogaine

[ThatRobGuy]

I stumbled across an article about this drug. It's for opiate addictions. It can cure addiction, remove all cravings, a supposedly work in 24 hours.

While reading the article, I'm wondering "wonder why this isn't more popular in the US", then find out, that US has it under lock and key and it's regulated under the strictest of prohibition schedules. Yet Canada and Mexico allow it... and according to wikipedia (which means I'm not sure of how factual it is), it's not even subject to any regulation in Canada.

My first thought was "This has got to be the big drug companies pushing their usual SOP of charging big buck for a treatment when a cheap cure is available like they do for everything else". But, then I thought, the only major existing competitor to Ibogaine is Methadone and that's provided by Merck, a company that has headquarters in both US and Canada. I read that many people travel to Canada just for this 24 hour treatment. So if Merck were behind this, they certainly wouldn't have strongarmed one government without strongarming the two governments that are within driving distance of the country. With a government that allows the corruption that Mexico does in terms of drugs, certainly they would have shut it down if Merck was willing to throw enough money at it...so I don't think it's Merck behind this.

I hate to say this, but that only leaves the US Government (the entity that's supposed to be providing the best opportunities for us) or the FDA (the entity that's supposed to look out for our health and well-being)

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Shane Roach]

The FDA has a long and glorious tradition of dragging its feet regarding approving drugs. I am not sure if in this specific instance there is anything more behind it than that.

 

[Shane Roach]

You might do better asking in a more open minded forum where drug use is concerned. I can't help but imagine a lot of my hippie friends would know a lot more about this than I do.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The FDA has a long and glorious tradition of dragging its feet regarding approving drugs. I am not sure if in this specific instance there is anything more behind it than that.

From what I'm reading, it looks like they were testing it out in the 60's and 70's then banned it abruptly.

The FDA has re-reviewed 7 times since then and they keep giving the same answers

"high potential of abuse"
"lack of a currently accepted medical use"
"lack of accepted safety procedure for use"

There are many other countries using this and none have reported the 3 things above to be a problem.

I just get the bad feeling that theirs some foul play of somekind involved with this.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

You might do better asking in a more open minded forum where drug use is concerned. I can't help but imagine a lot of my hippie friends would know a lot more about this than I do.

This isn't a recreational drug per say, it's a treatment drug. I don't think anyone would use it for partying since it kills addiction, makes you fall asleep, and neutralizes the effects of any other drug that might be in your system.

The question of morality comes in to play when we're discussing an entity willfully witholding a known cure. I just can't decide which entity it is.

 

[Shane Roach]

Well, sadly, for me, the morality is pretty straight forward. Despite multiple Christian crusades to the contrary, there really isn't anything in the Bible to forbid one from taking drugs. Now... some drugs... well, common sense dictates.... But if someone is addicted to something exceedingly destructive, and a lesser "evil" of a drug knocks that craving down, then it should be legalized and made available ASAP in my not often humble opinion.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Well, sadly, for me, the morality is pretty straight forward. Despite multiple Christian crusades to the contrary, there really isn't anything in the Bible to forbid one from taking drugs. Now... some drugs... well, common sense dictates.... But if someone is addicted to something exceedingly destructive, and a lesser "evil" of a drug knocks that craving down, then it should be legalized and made available ASAP in my not often humble opinion.

Well said.

I'm not speaking from a Christian perspective obviously, but I've always been of the opinion that one should have every right to put whatever they want in their own body. If someone wants to do something destructive, it's not my job to tell them they can't or stop them from doing it.

For this one, I'm kind of surprised that there isn't more of an outcry to have it legalized. It's for treating heroin addition. From studies I've read, most people on heroin really want to quit. It's not that they continue to take it for the buzz, they take it to avoid the withdrawal symptoms. I've never partaken of that drug myself (in high school, I just stuck with old fashioned weed), but from what I hear, the withdrawal from H is pretty brutal (body aches, vomiting, cold sweats, shortness of breath all of these things for days at a time)

 

[Shane Roach]

I'd probably stop a little short of saying people have some sort of "right" to be self destructive, especially if in the process they tend to be destructive of others as well, but by and large I find American attitudes towards drugs in general rather bizarre. I have read that feminism and Christianity took a rather odd turn in the early 20th century, and that if you look at prohibition through the eyes of women often abused by drunk husbands and seeing the family bank account drained to feed a drinking habit, it is a lot less offensive than it comes across otherwise.

I do not understand though why they would not just push for some level of responsibility. Even today, while I think drunk driving laws are the right way to go, the low BAC levels needed for a conviction and the severity of the punishment even at very low levels speak of the continuation of a rather draconian attitude towards any sort of mind altering drug that does not have any cognate in the Bible, nor indeed in anything rational I can identify.

 

[keith99]

The Wiki page gives a very different impression than the OP does.

Ibogaine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a alkaloid that has psycoactive properties.

Think Mushrooms or LSD.

Yup no chance of abuse. (Sarcasm).

 

[dies-l]

The FDA has a long and glorious tradition of dragging its feet regarding approving drugs. I am not sure if in this specific instance there is anything more behind it than that.

I actually think that the FDA is often too trigger happy to get new drugs to market. There are too many instances where the drugs get released to the general public to find that there was some horrific side effect that was never discovered or was suppressed during testing. Personally, I try not to take any medication that has not been around long enough for the patent to have expired and the drug to be available in a generic form. This isn't because I don't like to pay for brand name drugs, but because I don't trust to FDA to thoroughly ensure the safety and efficacy of new pharmaceutical products.

I don't know much about the drug in question, but I can say that, based on what I have seen, I would never accuse the FDA of "dragging its feet regarding approving drugs".

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The Wiki page gives a very different impression than the OP does.

Ibogaine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a alkaloid that has psycoactive properties.

Think Mushrooms or LSD.

Yup no chance of abuse. (Sarcasm).

Yes, but the psycoactive properties are far less harmful (if psycoactive properties are even "harmful"...unless seeing pink unicorns for 8 hours can be considered "harm") than the life threatening side effects associated with methadone. And they only last about 8 hours and the person getting the treatment feels no cravings once it wears off. Plus, it's administered in medical centers by doctors under their supervision.

Right from the FDA
On November 29, 2006, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration issued a Public Health Advisory about methadone titled "Methadone Use for Pain Control May Result in Death and Life-Threatening Changes in Breathing and Heart Beat." The advisory went on to say that "the FDA has received reports of death and life-threatening side effects in patients taking methadone. These deaths and life-threatening side effects have occurred in patients newly starting methadone for pain control and in patients who have switched to methadone after being treated for pain with other strong narcotic pain relievers. Methadone can cause slow or shallow breathing and dangerous changes in heart beat that may not be felt by the patient."

Yet, Methadone is legal in the US and Ibogaine is not.

So, which part of my OP paints a different picture?

My statement "It can cure addiction, remove all cravings, a supposedly work in 24 hours" are all backed up by recorded scientific data from 18 different countries and there are no reports of Ibogaine addiction that I can find.

 

[Shane Roach]

I actually think that the FDA is often too trigger happy to get new drugs to market. There are too many instances where the drugs get released to the general public to find that there was some horrific side effect that was never discovered or was suppressed during testing. Personally, I try not to take any medication that has not been around long enough for the patent to have expired and the drug to be available in a generic form. This isn't because I don't like to pay for brand name drugs, but because I don't trust to FDA to thoroughly ensure the safety and efficacy of new pharmaceutical products.

I don't know much about the drug in question, but I can say that, based on what I have seen, I would never accuse the FDA of "dragging its feet regarding approving drugs".

I hate to say, but I think your opinion is misinformed nonsense.

FDA drags feet on generic approvals - FiercePharma

The FDA has also dragged its feet on drugs that were approved in Europe much more quickly. The tendency seems to be to favor expensive drugs U.S. pharmaceutical companies can make tons of money from without much regard for the health and welfare of American citizens.

But hey, if you can show me this opposite trend you are speaking of, I would be glad to hear it. It's quite literally the first time I have heard anyone accuse them of being too quick on the trigger in modern memory.

 

[Shane Roach]

As well as other idiotic nonsense just to be REALLY sure that we clutter up our "open market" with obstructionary regulations.

Red yeast rice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A thousand year old rice recipe has a "drug" later associated with lowering cholesterol. Heaven forbid you get it almost free from the way you prepare your rice, for crying out freaking loud.

The USA is basically in full scale criminal operations at this point -- threatening people for profit and just for the sake of instilling fear and motivating blind compliance.

 

[Shane Roach]

More general information on how the FDA and big Pharma work hand in hand to destroy the rights of the customer.

FDA Suddenly Bans Drugs That Have Been On The Market For Decades | Techdirt

 

[Illuminaughty]

If a person is suffering from opiate addiction and they think Iboga might be useful they can find a way around the FDA pretty easily. They have been doing it all along after all. One can purchase the bark online legally (quasi legally?) they just aren't allowed to eat it. It would be nice if it were legal and could be taken with trained medical supervision though. It's a rather intense trip and people should have a sitter who knows what they are doing.

Did you know the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous Bill Wilson considered LSD a great tool for treating alcohol addiction?
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[FONT=verdana,arial,sans-serif] "It was not "the material itself [that] actually produces these experiences. It seems to have the result of sharply reducing the forces of the ego — temporarily, of course. It is a generally acknowledged fact in spiritual development that ego reduction makes the influx of God's grace possible. If, therefore, under LSD we can have a temporary reduction, so that we can better see what we are and where we are going — well, that might be of some help. The goal might become clearer. So I consider LSD to be of some value to some people, and practically no damage to anyone. It will never take the place of any of the existing means by which we can reduce the ego, and keep it reduced."

Bill Wilson
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[ThatRobGuy]

If a person is suffering from opiate addiction and they think Iboga might be useful they can find a way around the FDA pretty easily. They have been doing it all along after all. One can purchase the bark online legally (quasi legally?) they just aren't allowed to eat it. It would be nice if it were legal and could be taken with trained medical supervision though. It's a rather intense trip and people should have a sitter who knows what they are doing.

Correct.

Obviously you can get your hands on anything you want and circumnavigate the law...it'd just be nice if the laws were drawn up according to the peoples' needs and not the lobbyists' wants.

 

[Illuminaughty]

It's funny that they will trust you with an assault rifle but not some plant substance for personal consumption. If you are 18 you are old enough to go to war and kill people but if you're 30 or even 80 you still aren't old enough to decide what you want to eat.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

It's funny that they will trust you with an assault rifle but not some plant substance for personal consumption. If you are 18 you are old enough to go to war and kill people but if you're 30 or even 80 you still aren't old enough to decide what you want to eat.

Yep, there's some things in the system that are backwards.

The only thing is, I wouldn't compare guns to certain drugs. It's possible to use an assault rifle safely, I don't think the same can be said for crystal meth.

 

[Shane Roach]

It's funny that they will trust you with an assault rifle but not some plant substance for personal consumption. If you are 18 you are old enough to go to war and kill people but if you're 30 or even 80 you still aren't old enough to decide what you want to eat.

Well, second ammendment notwithstanding, they actually do not trust you with an unmodified assault rifle. They cannot be sold to the public fully automatic, and getting caught bypassing that is also illegal if I am not mistaken.

Still, banning consuming things derived from plants is pretty hair brained. It is enough to have a law for which being on such a substance can be counted as an agravating circumstance for other crimes. Still, someone should have to do SOMETHING -WRONG- I think before being arrested and convicted of doing something... wrong.....

 

[mzlynnem]

I registered with this forum specifically to reply to this topic. I have worked with ibogaine myself at a clinic in Mexico, and have firsthand experience ingesting this substance in attempt to overcome opiate addiction. I've been active in the ibogaine "community" for nearly five years now. I want to post a couple of thoughts in case others stumble upon this while searching for a way to beat addiction.

First of all - ibogaine is something that WILL NOT be abused. Anyone who's taken it will LAUGH at the notion. It can be an extremely psychedelic experience... But while you are on the drug, you cannot move around- literally. You must lie in bed for many hours. The experience itself is harsh on the body, leaving one with insomnia for several days afterward as well as a general exhaustion. And oh yeah, the trip isn't all pink elephants and lollipops and such. It's impossible to explain- not like LSD or mushrooms at all. The trip itself is beneficial to many in overcoming past trauma and seeing the truth about the sin in their lives. It is definitely a therapeutic drug, not a drug of abuse.

The truth about ibogaine in regards to treating opiate addiction is that it is NOT a "cure". What it will do is instantly take away physical withdrawal symptoms upon dosing. After the ibogaine has worn off (6-12hrs, more or less, though most feel more like staying in bed for around 24hrs), the person will feel exhausted and restless, and some minor withdrawal symptoms may reappear. These can be treated- if the person so wishes- by taking small amounts of ibogaine (not enough to cause psychedelic effects).

Overall, people tend to report an immediate 12-24hr cessation of physical withdrawal symptoms, and about an 80%+ reduction in withdrawal symptoms after that. Ibogaine also causes your mind and body to heal faster after detox than it would otherwise (cold turkey). So you are left with, depending on what your habit was like and how you prepared in advance for the ibogaine treatment, about 2-4 weeks of not feeling *great*, but being able to function. Ideally, one needs to set aside at least a week for the body to start to readjust after having gone through such an experience and with the insomnia. The majority of people feel strongly a new sense of "cleanliness", and a repulsion to drugs afterward. But that sensation will last only a few weeks at best, so immediate involvement in aftercare is a must (counseling, therapy, rearranging one's entire life... which is the REAL work).

Ibogaine is the most humane method of detox. If anyone has questions, please feel free to ask me. If I don't know the answer, I'll find someone who does.