I would very much like your opinions on this...

[Talmidah]

It is a radio show, and the section about which I'd love to hear your opinions starts at about 24:00 into the show.

The Dilemma of the Double Edged Sword

 

[Bananna]

Sad that we have to fight deception and missunderstanding to get aid to people in need.

I don't think people should use Israel as their personal fishing pond either. On the other hand any torah is better than no Torah and it is not just the pour that are believing in Yeshua it is the drug addicts and the prostitutes and morally decaying. Any one reaching them is better than no one reaching them and the more christians and Jews in the State of Israel the more likely to push out the borders.

Just because a Jew believes in Yeshua does not mean someone made them believe for favors. No one is stopping the Jews from feeding their own people. If you want to support the synagogues to support their pour we find this pretty much solves the problem.

Our missionary support is for a group that just brings aid. Opens doors to work together with Jews, just getting the aid where it is needed. We are a serving not prostelitizying and our missionaries have a hard time because of those who go in with motives to convert them all to Christianity.

Shoving your beliefs in a Jew's face and telling them they are a heretic or just don't believe in God, because they are not Chrisitians is horrible.

I also find it extremely prejudice to claim that one cannot be messianic and Jewish. It is clear there is a lot of hurt in the woman's voice as she sees people undermining her religion and her beliefs. That is really sad. However I feel that the focus should be to give people the freedom to stand on the street corners and share only with those who want to listen. Gagging and keeping out the Christians is not going to save the nation.

The fact that they cannot share with children about Yeshua is a big plus for me. I believe children should remain under their families authority.

(is that clear as mud)
bananna

 

[BereanTodd]

I think that MJ should be able to make Aliya, which seems to be the ladies' main contention, being upset that MJ believers are wanting to find a way to be able to make Aliya.

I love and support Israel, I have considered trying to find a way to move there myself; but I do have serious issues about the religious discrimination of the state.

edit: Also somewhere around 38:40 or so they took serious issue with the fact that (according to them at least) it was now no longer illegal to evangelize as long as gifts and other co-ertions were not used. Again, this goes to the lack of religious freedom that I take very strong issue with.

 

[ChazakEmunah]

It's quite simple really. If the government of Israel were based on the Torah, then we would not even have a problem because missionaries wouldn't even be allowed in the country.

Todd, the Torah does not allow for so-called "freedom of religion." Such a concept is foreign to it. The Torah lays out one path to follow. The Torah is haDerekh, haEmet, v'haChaim. There is no other way.

IMO, if a Jew wants to return to Israel and make aliyah, then they should be required to accept Judaism as their sole faith and renounce all other religious beliefs.

 

[BereanTodd]

Chazak, Israel is a secular state, most of the citizens are themselves secular, and the rule of law in the nation is not Torah and the Rabbis, but the Knesset and the civil and military authorities. I disagree strongly - Jewish atheists come back all of the time, Jewish seculariest make Aliyah all of the time, it is only the Messianics/CHristians who are not accepted and that is unaceptable discrimination.

 

[Bananna]

It's quite simple really. If the government of Israel were based on the Torah, then we would not even have a problem because missionaries wouldn't even be allowed in the country.

Todd, the Torah does not allow for so-called "freedom of religion." Such a concept is foreign to it. The Torah lays out one path to follow. The Torah is haDerekh, haEmet, v'haChaim. There is no other way.

IMO, if a Jew wants to return to Israel and make aliyah, then they should be required to accept Judaism as their sole faith and renounce all other religious beliefs.

That is not a torah requirement to renounce all other faiths. False preachers and teachers were stoned. If it were truly a torah observant state I would rejoice, but it is better they be taught moral teaching than anti moral teaching.

 

[Bananna]

Chazak, Israel is a secular state, most of the citizens are themselves secular, and the rule of law in the nation is not Torah and the Rabbis, but the Knesset and the civil and military authorities. I disagree strongly - Jewish atheists come back all of the time, Jewish seculariest make Aliyah all of the time, it is only the Messianics/CHristians who are not accepted and that is unaceptable discrimination.

Actually those who are Torah observant should be fighting to keep all Torah observant in the state of Israel and increase their numbers daily. The fact that the MJ and Christians can increase the moral rule and compas of the state of Israel is to the entire country's benifit.

Israel needs more in numbers to push out and defend the boarders.

Morality is important to God... not just Jewish blood.

Bananna

 

[ChazakEmunah]

Chazak, Israel is a secular state, most of the citizens are themselves secular, and the rule of law in the nation is not Torah and the Rabbis, but the Knesset and the civil and military authorities. I disagree strongly - Jewish atheists come back all of the time, Jewish seculariest make Aliyah all of the time, it is only the Messianics/CHristians who are not accepted and that is unaceptable discrimination.

Trust me... I know full well that Israel is a secular country, was founded by secular Zionists, and that most of it's citizens are secular. That is why I said "if the government of Israel were based on the Torah." It is not that way right now, but it will change. If observant Jews would rise up and get rid of the current regime, we could effect the change now. However, since that is not likely to be the case, we will have to wait for Mashiakh. It is unfortunate that the law of the land is based on the prior British civil administration and not the Torah. Israel today is not a Jewish State, it is a state that happens to be full of Jews. A true Jewish nation would be based on the Torah alone.

As for the atheists and secularists, I know about them as well. That's also why I said that all Jews should only be allowed to enter the country if they 1) renounce any other belief system (including atheism and secularism) 2) accept Judaism as their sole faith.

The Messianics and C*hristians (and all others) currently living in Israel should be a given a choice.
For Jews: A) They can renounce their beliefs and return to Judaism or B) They can leave the country.
For Non-Jews: A)They can renounce their beliefs and become Gerim or B) They can leave the country as well.

 

[ChazakEmunah]

Actually those who are Torah observant should be fighting to keep all Torah observant in the state of Israel and increase their numbers daily. The fact that the MJ and Christians can increase the moral rule and compas of the state of Israel is to the entire country's benifit.

First: It is not a benefit when they are trying to convert Jews to C*hristianity. It is called extermination by conversion. This is the stated goal of the majority of C*hristianity. Oh they won't use the term "extermination" but they will tell you that they think every Jew needs to be converted to C*hristianity.

Second: I completely disagree about needing C*hristians/MJs to be a moral compass. We already have one. It's called the Torah. If we would just follow it we wouldn't have the problems that we are seeing today.

Israel needs more in numbers to push out and defend the boarders.

Once we as a people do t'shuva and return to Torah, we will no longer need to worry about having more people to defend the borders. HaShem can use a small amount of people to defeat entire armies.

Morality is important to God... not just Jewish blood.

I certainly agree. I would like to think that once we have a Torah government, Gerim will be welcome to live in Israel alongside Jews.

 

[Talmidah]

First: It is not a benefit when they are trying to convert Jews to C*hristianity. It is called extermination by conversion. This is the stated goal of the majority of C*hristianity. Oh they won't use the term "extermination" but they will tell you that they think every Jew needs to be converted to C*hristianity.

Second: I completely disagree about needing C*hristians/MJs to be a moral compass. We already have one. It's called the Torah. If we would just follow it we wouldn't have the problems that we are seeing today.



Once we as a people do t'shuva and return to Torah, we will no longer need to worry about having more people to defend the borders. HaShem can use a small amount of people to defeat entire armies.


I certainly agree. I would like to think that once we have a Torah government, Gerim will be welcome to live in Israel alongside Jews.

 

[Bananna]

First: It is not a benefit when they are trying to convert Jews to C*hristianity. It is called extermination by conversion. This is the stated goal of the majority of C*hristianity. Oh they won't use the term "extermination" but they will tell you that they think every Jew needs to be converted to C*hristianity.

Second: I completely disagree about needing C*hristians/MJs to be a moral compass. We already have one. It's called the Torah. If we would just follow it we wouldn't have the problems that we are seeing today.



Once we as a people do t'shuva and return to Torah, we will no longer need to worry about having more people to defend the borders. HaShem can use a small amount of people to defeat entire armies.


I certainly agree. I would like to think that once we have a Torah government, Gerim will be welcome to live in Israel alongside Jews.

Wouldn't it be nice to have the Sanhedrin replace the government? and control the army of God?

 

[TheRabbi]

I supported and still support the ICEJ participation in the annual jerusalem parade. But you guys have to understand that there are ugly incedents at these events every year and they just add fuel to the fire.

In another thread I explained that at this years parade, which is an annual event put on by the Jerusalem municipality. Three Christians from NY hoisted a large wooden cross and began to yell "This is our march!"

Now next year, when the ICEJ says "We don't come with an agenda", people aren't going to remember the thousands of other Christians who came and acted like mentschen. They are going to remember the guys with the big cross yelling at them.

 

[Bananna]

I supported and still support the ICEJ participation in the annual jerusalem parade. But you guys have to understand that there are ugly incedents at these events every year and they just add fuel to the fire.

In another thread I explained that at this years parade, which is an annual event put on by the Jerusalem municipality. Three Christians from NY hoisted a large wooden cross and began to yell "This is our march!"

Now next year, when the ICEJ says "We don't come with an agenda", people aren't going to remember the thousands of other Christians who came and acted like mentschen. They are going to remember the guys with the big cross yelling at them.

Okay that is just plain sick.

(quivers with revulsion)

bananna

 

[TheRabbi]

That's okay. We have these "special" police that ride in pairs on 750CC Kawasaki dirtbikes. They dress in black with all sorts of body armor and special weapons. They can always be seen cruising up and down the streets of Yerushalayim. Believe me, you don't want to get on their bad side. The above-mentioned gentlemen did just that. I don't think it was a pleasant experience for them.

 

[ChazakEmunah]

Wouldn't it be nice to have the Sanhedrin replace the government? and control the army of God?

Eventually it will replace the so-called "Supreme Court," and when it does, Mashiakh will reign as our Melekh.

 

[ChazakEmunah]

That's okay. We have these "special" police that ride in pairs on 750CC Kawasaki dirtbikes. They dress in black with all sorts of body armor and special weapons. They can always be seen cruising up and down the streets of Yerushalayim. Believe me, you don't want to get on their bad side. The above-mentioned gentlemen did just that. I don't think it was a pleasant experience for them.

If these are the same "special" police I have heard of, then they are nothing to be proud of. I think that the Russian Yassakim should be tried as criminals.

 

[TheRabbi]

What are you talking about? Yassamnikim? No, they aren't Yassam.

 

[Lulav]

It's quite simple really. If the government of Israel were based on the Torah, then we would not even have a problem because missionaries wouldn't even be allowed in the country.

Todd, the Torah does not allow for so-called "freedom of religion." Such a concept is foreign to it. The Torah lays out one path to follow. The Torah is haDerekh, haEmet, v'haChaim. There is no other way.

IMO, if a Jew wants to return to Israel and make aliyah, then they should be required to accept Judaism as their sole faith and renounce all other religious beliefs.

But if we renounce Yeshua we renounce haDerekh, haEmet, v'haChaim.

I actually made a jacket with that written on it in ancient hebrew.

 

[Lulav]

Wouldn't it be nice to have the Sanhedrin replace the government? and control the army of God?

And chop off all the heads of those who won't renounce Yeshua?

 

[ChazakEmunah]

What are you talking about? Yassamnikim? No, they aren't Yassam.

Oh ok. Good. Yassam are brutal.