ZephBonkerer

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This sounds like a highly abusive marriage where both you and her were abusing each other. Her being abusive to you does not let you off the hook for your response, but I can understand where you are coming from here.
That's about right. She didn't lose me, and I didn't lose her. We lost each other. After years of her manipulation and my angry reactions to it, there was nothing left to salvage. The marriage was too far gone. I tried, but there was just nothing that could be done.

I have no ill-will against my ex-wife. I'm disappointed in the decisions she made - and of course my angry reactions to these didn't help things. If I knew better, I would have arranged for some third-party help to alleviate these issues. I have no way of knowing if the outcome would have been any different.

Whether a spouse is allowed to leave an abusive marriage is very much debated in Christian circles ...
It has been debated for centuries. Frankly, I find it a bit embarrassing to the Faith as a whole that there's even any debate at all. The freedom to terminate a marriage due to a pattern of abuse should be a given. I think this is due to a number of things, including a gross misreading of Scriptures.

Some people read the words of Jesus at Matthew 19:6-9 and mistakenly believe that you are not allowed to divorce for any reason other than immorality. And if you do divorce, you are forever barred from marrying again lest it be considered adultery. This is asinine and brain-dead! If any and all remarriage after divorce is adultery, then either adultery was lawful under the Mosaic Law (Deuteronomy 24:2) or Jesus changed the Law (Matthew 5:17) to alter the definition of adultery. It's unbiblical either way.

Besides which, Paul the Apostle made it very clear that it is no sin to marry again at 1 Corinthians 7, verses 9, 15 (after abandonment), and 27-28. I read those verses as applicable to someone who is unmarried for any reason, regardless of any prior marital status.

One man dumped a faithful wife so he could run off with an Instagram cutie. Another man put up with years of abuse, drug use, etc and finally divorced his wife, then married a better woman five years later. I am firmly of the position that it is only the actions of the first man, not the second, that Jesus condemned as tantamount to adultery. The moral difference between the men in these two scenarios is obvious even to pagans, yet we are expected to believe God recognizes no difference!? What do they take us for? Better yet, what do they take God for?

You'll hear many people on the other side who advocate for the Permanence view of marriage (the one that says divorce is prohibited in general) claim that the Scriptures are crystal clear in support of their position. Nothing could be further from the truth. Divorce exists to provide relief to spouses in terrible positions. It was the abuse of divorce for selfish or frivolous reasons that Jesus condemned, not divorce per se. And God does not punish those who have no realistic alternative to divorce by subjecting them to unjust restrictions or second-class status. Why, oh why is this rocket science to some people!?

I've even heard many legalistic "Christians" claim that the Word of God says you must do X, you cannot do Y, and that anyone who teaches otherwise is "tickling the ears". But this assumes that the most reliable teaching on a matter is the one that is most restrictive. The truth is false teachings that tickle the ears is oftentimes legalistic. The implication being you can earn God's favor by following some legalistic formula. Legalistic doctrines often confer a false sense of holiness to the hearer while appealing to their self-righteousness and a sinful desire to consider themselves better than the unwashed cretins who do not observe their restrictive teachings on X and Y.

The problem is, abuse victims can become abusers themselves. What is worse, abusers attract abusers for marriage partners. And I'm going to be honest with you right now bro, you're using a ton of the language that my abusive dad used "unacceptable", "disrespectful", and also mirroring his attitude very strongly. "It's that simple." "nothing would change unless she was made aware that divorce is a very real possibility."

Now, I don't think you're purposefully intending to be an abuser. I don't think you think you are one. But at the very least, your wife's actions have put you on the path to becoming one, if you weren't one already ... Please, I beg of you, go see a therapist to help you fully recover...
You could be right about this one. I've had a number of people in my life refuse to take my concerns and my boundaries seriously. I would start with a more diplomatic approach. When that didn't work, I would get coercive. If they still didn't get the message, then I would terminate the relationship in the most callous and ruthless way possible. If they didn't want that outcome, then they should have taken my warnings seriously.

I know it isn't what most people want to hear, but coercion and ultimatums are very effective in forcing a change that would not have happened otherwise. I don't like resorting to these. But by the time I'm going there, all other remedies have been tried - and they have received multiple warnings. They have one last chance to make things right with me - if they fail, then I cannot guarantee they will receive another opportunity in this lifetime. I know it's not pleasant, but real life is not the Hallmark Channel.

And yes, I am seeing a therapist.
 
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linux.poet

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She didn't lose me, and I didn't lose her. We lost each other. After years of her manipulation and my angry reactions to it, there was nothing left to salvage. The marriage was too far gone. I tried, but there was just nothing that could be done.
As far as I know, abusive relationships are not reconciled. They are survived until they are escaped. Abusers enjoy inflicting pain on others and watching people grovel and become reduced to shells of themselves. Any attempt to reconcile with them gives them a license to inflict more pain.

Unfortunately, many of them enjoy having pain inflicted upon them by others, so retribution is also no solution. They will simply blame you for inflicting pain upon them and use their pain as an excuse to hurt you more.

They also enjoy watching people's angry reactions to their behavior, and know how to use those to take advantage of people and get what they want. If you were still in the relationship, my advice would be to stop reacting angrily to her, and to show her that her behavior will not give her what she wants. But all of that is probably in the past now.

I've had a number of people in my life refuse to take my concerns and my boundaries seriously. I would start with a more diplomatic approach. When that didn't work, I would get coercive. If they still didn't get the message, then I would terminate the relationship in the most callous and ruthless way possible. If they didn't want that outcome, then they should have taken my warnings seriously.
This sounds like threatening behavior that is probably making a lot of people in your life uncomfortable. People do not change in response to threats, my friend. They become more defensive and rooted in their ways. They have to want to change before they will, and they change in the way they want to, and in the way that God wants them to, not in the way that you want them to.

If someone is violating a boundary of yours, my recommendation for now is to skip the diplomacy, coercion, etc, and just walk away. This is a guide for proper boundary setting and enforcement that will come across as more stable to them:


Description: Dr. K, a Harvard Medical School psychiatrist, explains a good method for setting healthy boundaries and enforcing them.

I would also encourage you to talk with your therapist about ways to end relationships that aren't so "ruthless". Now, for abusers, callous and ruthless is probably what you need. But not everyone on this planet, believe it or not, is an abuser that deserves to be ruthlessly slaughtered just because they aren't up to your standards.
 
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ZephBonkerer

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As far as I know, abusive relationships are not reconciled. They are survived until they are escaped. Abusers enjoy inflicting pain on others and watching people grovel and become reduced to shells of themselves. Any attempt to reconcile with them gives them a license to inflict more pain.
Abusers are people that Paul identified in 1 Cor 6:10 as those who will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. I've been thinking about this stuff for a bit. I think you're right: the best course of action is to simply ghost them.

When you consider what God does to unrepentant abusers: He casts them into a place full of weeping and gnashing of teeth. In that place, they are forever locked away from everyone, unable to abuse anyone. In that place, they can no longer reach out to anyone, not even God.

As a side note: demons do not torture human souls in the Lake of Fire. They are just as tormented as the human souls are. The only authority that prevails there is the intense heat. That tormenting stuff is based on medieval folklore.
 
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linux.poet

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I think you're right: the best course of action is to simply ghost them.
Yeah, if you can do that, that is the best option. Another option is to use what is called the "gray-rock" technique where you don't display any emotional reactivity to them and become, in their eyes, the most boring person possible. They get off on emotional pain and reactivity, so the less emotional pain you display and the less you react to them, the less power they will have over you.

I recommend the latter method if you have to deal with your ex-wife for any reason.
 
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ZephBonkerer

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This is something that came up in therapy: I became adept at defensiveness and litigating my position to the bitter end. It was like I was a general and a lawyer. Being able to fight like that can come in handy, but I was getting weary of this. I wanted love, and nobody loves a lawyer. Nobody loves a general either.

When some people in the Church said it's either reconciliation or celibacy, of course I challenged their position. To me, being condemned to permanent lifelong celibacy because of my divorce would be a fate I would consider worse than death. Being able to love again in that way is that important to me. Maybe not all believers can relate to that, but they are not me, and I am not them.

When I told the elders that I would prefer death over celibacy, they accused me of idolatry. But that's nonsense. They don't get to dictate to us what we can and cannot value. When Patrick Henry said "give me liberty or give me death!" nobody accused him of making an idol out of liberty. When I fought tooth-and-nail for the right to remarry, and to love again, I did so like my life depended on it - in part because in a way, it did.

The Marriage Permanence Heresy is the doctrine that says Jesus abolished divorce in general, even for serious violations of the marital vows. The implication is that if you ever were married, you can never marry again so long as your so-called "covenant spouse" is still alive. Many variations of this teaching claim that if you do remarry, you will be in a "perpetual state of adultery" and will lose your salvation as a result! This doctrine is easy to disprove and there are multiple ways to do it - either with Scripture or common horse-sense. It's easy to understand why I would find this teaching so odious.

There are people who believe this doctrine and promote it relentlessly. They'll go to online forums like this one, Reddit, YouTube, etc. To support their doctrine, they rip verses out of context, ignore other key verses, all the while boldly claiming the Word of God clearly supports their position. Oftentimes when someone attempts to rebut their claims, they will accuse them of wanting to "pursue the lusts of the flesh", as if there was something shameful about wanting to be in a healthy relationship. Their tactics in supporting this monstrous heresy would be fit for a George Orwell novel.

At some point I expect that I will resume contact with other believers, either in a traditional church assembly setting or otherwise. I don't normally apply litmus tests to assemblies, but in this case that might not be a bad idea. I will do my due diligence regarding their positions. If their position on divorce and remarriage bears even the slightest resemblance to the Marriage Permanence Heresy, then I will count that as an automatic disqualification. At that point, they might as well teach that Zeus died for our sins.
 
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ZephBonkerer

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I revisited this thread recently to reflect on things.

I don't claim to be blameless regarding the demise of my marriage. My then-wife would do certain things that would infuriate me, and I would retaliate because of it. These things - and my reactions to them - destroyed the marriage from within. If we got third party counseling earlier on, perhaps the outcome would have been different. I'll never know for sure. That is something I will have to live with for the rest of my life.

I have been shamed by people for moving forward with divorce because of my role in its deterioration. This is absurd. Even if I was totally at fault, that is still no reason to deny divorce, especially if my wife wanted out (and she did). Either the marriage had to improve or it had to end. There is no good reason to prevent a couple from moving in the latter direction (divorce) if moving in the former direction (improvement) is impossible or inappropriate.

Again, I did not seek any kind of justification to get a divorce. I already had all the justification I needed to divorce. Instead, I persuaded my wife to enter counseling with me to determine what needed to be done to salvage the marriage. That is if anything could be done. While I did threaten divorce early on, the truth was that I saw divorce only as a remedy of last resort.

This process allowed me to be at peace with ending the marriage. If I went straight for divorce, I would have never known if the marriage could have been salvaged if I gave it a shot. Now I know for sure that it was too far gone.
 
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