I was excommunicated for getting a divorce

[ZephBonkerer]

This seems to be a good place to share my story and to weigh where to go from here...

In the Spring 2021, my marriage was in serious trouble due in large part to my then-wife's refusal to provide anything resembling normal marital intimacy. After putting up with enough excuses, I told her that this was unacceptable and that I would pursue a divorce if this does not improve. She did agree to enter into marital counseling with me. And when she agreed, I took divorce off the table.

At the time, I informed the elders of the state of my marriage (she attended a different assembly at the time). I told the elders that I would work in good faith to make my marriage viable. But if the marriage cannot be saved, then I would pursue a divorce and that I would date and remarry - but only as a last resort. I made it clear that I would recognize no doctrine that says I have to put up with a loveless or sexless marriage or be condemned to celibacy for the rest of my life (and that is still my position). I then asked the Church leadership if my position would be a problem concerning my relationship to that assembly. In other words, should I begin the search for a new assembly? They informed me that it would not.

Then six weeks into counseling, I saw the writing on the wall. Sure enough, my then-wife said she wanted to end the marriage. This time I was prepared for it. I accepted her decision to wind down the marriage and we began that process. Some time later (Aug 2021), I informed the Church leadership of this. When I did, I was placed under church discipline! After they assured me that they would not if it came to that. I quickly ended my association with that assembly, and I have been reluctant to even associate with other believers ever since.

I did not seek out an excuse or justification to get a divorce - I already had that. Instead I sought a way to make divorce unnecessary. I only pursued divorce as a remedy of last resort, that is when it became clear I had no reasonable alternative. Yet the Church leadership, in their vast wisdom, saw fit to treat me as no different from a man who is dumping his faithful wife just to run off with an Instagram model. I don't get up on Sunday mornings to associate with people who would slander me to my face and condemn me for doing something I had no choice but to do.

Any thoughts on this? The respect I used to have for Christians in general has been severely compromised because of this. I took it as a huge slap in the face to be subjected to a process reserved for liars and thieves. I don't forget nor do I forgive such things easily.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

Some further notes:

The position of the Church Leadership was that adultery and abandonment by an unbeliever were the only grounds for divorce they recognized as valid. I informed them that I didn't read the Scriptures that way. I also offered to find a new assembly if my position would be a problem for them. They said that would not be necessary.

When I asked them why I was being subjected to Church discipline after they falsely assured me that they would not, they were evasive. To this day, I never got a straight answer from them regarding their duplicity.

 

[Aussie Pete]

This seems to be a good place to share my story and to weigh where to go from here...

In the Spring 2021, my marriage was in serious trouble due in large part to my then-wife's refusal to provide anything resembling normal marital intimacy. After putting up with enough excuses, I told her that this was unacceptable and that I would pursue a divorce if this does not improve. She did agree to enter into marital counseling with me. And when she agreed, I took divorce off the table.

At the time, I informed the elders of the state of my marriage (she attended a different assembly at the time). I told the elders that I would work in good faith to make my marriage viable. But if the marriage cannot be saved, then I would pursue a divorce and that I would date and remarry - but only as a last resort. I made it clear that I would recognize no doctrine that says I have to put up with a loveless or sexless marriage or be condemned to celibacy for the rest of my life (and that is still my position). I then asked the Church leadership if my position would be a problem concerning my relationship to that assembly. In other words, should I begin the search for a new assembly? They informed me that it would not.

Then six weeks into counseling, I saw the writing on the wall. Sure enough, my then-wife said she wanted to end the marriage. This time I was prepared for it. I accepted her decision to wind down the marriage and we began that process. Some time later (Aug 2021), I informed the Church leadership of this. When I did, I was placed under church discipline! After they assured me that they would not if it came to that. I quickly ended my association with that assembly, and I have been reluctant to even associate with other believers ever since.

I did not seek out an excuse or justification to get a divorce - I already had that. Instead I sought a way to make divorce unnecessary. I only pursued divorce as a remedy of last resort, that is when it became clear I had no reasonable alternative. Yet the Church leadership, in their vast wisdom, saw fit to treat me as no different from a man who is dumping his faithful wife just to run off with an Instagram model. I don't get up on Sunday mornings to associate with people who would slander me to my face and condemn me for doing something I had no choice but to do.

Any thoughts on this? The respect I used to have for Christians in general has been severely compromised because of this. I took it as a huge slap in the face to be subjected to a process reserved for liars and thieves. I don't forget nor do I forgive such things easily.

Don't let wounded pride be your downfall. You must forgive all those who have offended you. God will not let you off the hook as long as you harbour unforgiveness. I know what it's like. My circumstances were not identical but I also was treated like the guilty party, even though I had no opportunity to share my side of the sorry tale. Read the Lord's prayer again. It's sobering to say the least.

I was blessed to know a true man of God. He advised me how to forgive those that I could not forgive, including my ex wife and people I once thought of as friends and brethren. I suggest that you read the following article. It will give you the key to forgiving, in this instance and for the rest of your life.

Can you forgive from your heart? - Christian Life Frankston

Christian teaching and encouragement for those who want to grow in Christ

www.christianlife.org.au

 

[ZephBonkerer]

I know what it's like. My circumstances were not identical but I also was treated like the guilty party, even though I had no opportunity to share my side of the sorry tale.

While you were going through your ordeal, did you have the impression that those involved had reached their desired conclusion (that you were the guilty party) and were only interested in evidence that would justify their predetermined conclusion?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

This seems to be a good place to share my story and to weigh where to go from here...

In the Spring 2021, my marriage was in serious trouble due in large part to my then-wife's refusal to provide anything resembling normal marital intimacy. After putting up with enough excuses, I told her that this was unacceptable and that I would pursue a divorce if this does not improve. She did agree to enter into marital counseling with me. And when she agreed, I took divorce off the table.

At the time, I informed the elders of the state of my marriage (she attended a different assembly at the time). I told the elders that I would work in good faith to make my marriage viable. But if the marriage cannot be saved, then I would pursue a divorce and that I would date and remarry - but only as a last resort. I made it clear that I would recognize no doctrine that says I have to put up with a loveless or sexless marriage or be condemned to celibacy for the rest of my life (and that is still my position). I then asked the Church leadership if my position would be a problem concerning my relationship to that assembly. In other words, should I begin the search for a new assembly? They informed me that it would not.

Then six weeks into counseling, I saw the writing on the wall. Sure enough, my then-wife said she wanted to end the marriage. This time I was prepared for it. I accepted her decision to wind down the marriage and we began that process. Some time later (Aug 2021), I informed the Church leadership of this. When I did, I was placed under church discipline! After they assured me that they would not if it came to that. I quickly ended my association with that assembly, and I have been reluctant to even associate with other believers ever since.

I did not seek out an excuse or justification to get a divorce - I already had that. Instead I sought a way to make divorce unnecessary. I only pursued divorce as a remedy of last resort, that is when it became clear I had no reasonable alternative. Yet the Church leadership, in their vast wisdom, saw fit to treat me as no different from a man who is dumping his faithful wife just to run off with an Instagram model. I don't get up on Sunday mornings to associate with people who would slander me to my face and condemn me for doing something I had no choice but to do.

Any thoughts on this? The respect I used to have for Christians in general has been severely compromised because of this. I took it as a huge slap in the face to be subjected to a process reserved for liars and thieves. I don't forget nor do I forgive such things easily.

Honestly I would be more concerned about the covenental marriage both of you have broken. Blessings.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Some further notes:

The position of the Church Leadership was that adultery and abandonment by an unbeliever were the only grounds for divorce they recognized as valid. I informed them that I didn't read the Scriptures that way. I also offered to find a new assembly if my position would be a problem for them. They said that would not be necessary.

When I asked them why I was being subjected to Church discipline after they falsely assured me that they would not, they were evasive. To this day, I never got a straight answer from them regarding their duplicity.

I'm amazed there are still congregations that practice church discipline. Very rare. You left a good grounded God fearing group. They failed you by not being part of the counciling process but it sounds like your wife ( according to scripture she still is) did not attend .

 

[ZephBonkerer]

I'm amazed there are still congregations that practice church discipline. Very rare. You left a good grounded God fearing group. They failed you by not being part of the counciling process but it sounds like your wife ( according to scripture she still is) did not attend .

I have nothing against church discipline per se, in fact more assemblies should practice it. The problem I have is when the disciplinary process is conducted in a manner that is other than godly and transparent. When I met with the Church elder, the meeting resembled a Star Chamber inquisition, not any genuine call to repentance. Godly church elders do not conduct their disciplinary practices this way.

What was especially egregious in this case is that they lied to me regarding their own policies. There is absolutely no excuse for any kind of untruthfulness in this regard. This thoroughly destroyed the trust I had in them. I was truthful to them regarding my actions and efforts to move ahead in a godly way.

As for the marriage itself, I did everything I reasonably could to provide a path to reconciliation. She didn't want to reconcile, and I cannot force her to. I also resented the pressure from others to pursue reconciliation reconciliation reconciliation regardless of its prospects for success. How long am I supposed to keep that up? Until I die of old age? Until she files for a restraining order against me? It was this lack of respect for reality that I found appalling.

The message I got from my then-wife, our marital counselor, and the Good Lord Himself was all unanimous: "Just let it go". Some people seem to think divorce is a sin regardless of the circumstances, but I don't see it that way. Not that I would divorce if I had a reasonable alternative.

Some people would insist that we stay in the same household as roommates, essentially married on paper only. I have a hard time understanding how living that way is supposed to bring honor to God.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

You left a good grounded God fearing group...

Something to add regarding this: I would not presume that this group was a "good grounded God fearing" one simply because they practiced church discipline. Practicing church discipline in a grossly unethical manner is worse than not practicing it at all. The list of ethical violations I witnessed here was quite long.

If it were simply a difference over doctrine, I would have respected their opinion and acted accordingly. But this was far different.

 

[peaceful-forest]

I don't think divorce should be limited to adultery and a non-believer not wanting to stay married to a believer. What about women that are abused by their husbands? Isn't that "marital unfaithfulness"?

 

[ZephBonkerer]

Have you left this church, I hope?

I don't think divorce should be limited to adultery and a non-believer not wanting to stay married to a believer. What about women that are abused by their husbands? Isn't that "marital unfaithfulness"?

Yes I have long since left. Not that I had much choice! On paper, I formally ended my association with them when my excommunication was imminent. A bit like being asked to resign - do you really have much of a choice?

And yes, their view was that domestic violence was not a "scriptural" (read: "valid") reason to divorce. I told them that alone was reason to reject as unbiblical their entire doctrine on divorce and remarriage. I can make a strong case as to why that doctrine is utterly void of biblical merit, but that's a topic for another thread.

This actually strikes at the heart of the issue concerning misuse of church disciplinary proceedings: such actions are supposed to be to encourage a repentance from sin. In such a case, the conduct in question clearly is sin without a doubt. But in my case, I worked in good faith to restore the marriage to the extent possible and only moved to divorce when it was clear that no such restoration was possible. It's hard to see just how that constituted "open and unrepentant sin" per their words.

It is totally inappropriate and unethical to use church discipline in an attempt to strong-arm someone into accepting the "official" point of view on a controversial doctrinal matter. Especially when the scriptural basis for that viewpoint is debatable at best. In that meeting, I remained steadfast and I refused to back down even under threat of excommunication.

 

[Aussie Pete]

While you were going through your ordeal, did you have the impression that those involved had reached their desired conclusion (that you were the guilty party) and were only interested in evidence that would justify their predetermined conclusion?

Absolutely. I'm male therefore guilty.

I accepted my part in the marriage breakup. It takes two to untangle. That was not enough for many that I considered friends at one time. It was black and white to most of them. I had two friends that remained objective. They were enormously helpful.

 

[linux.poet]

In my view, the way this church treated you was extremely cruel. The way that this process should have started is confronting your wife for violating 1 Corinthians 7:2-5:

2 But because of sexual immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. 3 The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise the wife also to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise the husband also does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

So yes, a church discipline process should have occurred, but it should have been church discipline against your wife for violating this set of instructions and forcing you to live in a sexless marriage (depriving you). If we consult Matthew 18, this is the process:

15 “Now if your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be confirmed. 17 And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, he is to be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

So the process starts with you confronting her over the 1 Corinthians 7 violation that I mentioned. If she had repented and chosen to engage with you again, that is where the process ends. But if she still refuses to follow the Scripture, you bring in a second witness to her misdeeds. In this case, the marriage counselor would have likely sufficed. If she persists even after this second witness is brought, you take her to the church and have her, not you, excommunicated for failing to obey the Scripture and follow this particular set of verses. Let the Church not be cowardly.

Once your wife is excommunicated, she is functionally declared an unbeliever "whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven" and then if she wants to leave the marriage, you can file for a divorce under 1 Corinthians 7:15. This is the way that the church should have guided you.

But unfortunately, brother, I think you may have responded to your wife's sin in a sinful manner by jumping to the divorce as the solution without going through the correct process to obtain it. This has left you in a situation where you do not know what would have occurred had you followed the correct discipline procedure. So be careful how you view your church in your mind. No church will discipline you for being sinned against, and that might have been the reassurance that your church gave you before the divorce filing. But you didn't correctly finish the discipline procedure to excommunicate your wife first, so the church be like "this divorce is unbiblical and we have to excommunicate somebody, and the guy filed for divorce, so it's his fault for violating Matthew 19:3-9". They failed to consider the facts of the case, and that is cruel.

Excommunication is very common in divorces between two believers in my neck of the woods. The assumption is that someone is violating the Scriptures in some form or fashion, and they are usually right. The tragedy here, in my view, is not that an excommunication happened, but that the church excommunicated the wrong person. Plenty of blame to go around.

I am sorry that you had to go through this. I hope that you are able to find a new church and a new lady friend who are able to treat your situation with sympathy and understanding.

 

[Sketcher]

I don't think divorce should be limited to adultery and a non-believer not wanting to stay married to a believer. What about women that are abused by their husbands? Isn't that "marital unfaithfulness"?

When we look at the text, no. It's clearly for adultery:

matthew 19:9 - Interlinear Bible Search

matthew 19:9 -

www.biblestudytools.com

https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/inappropriate contenteia.html

That being said, it doesn't mean that those in physical danger must stay in physical danger (consider Luke 21:20-22, Acts 8:1). They may get to safety. But this is not permission to remarry while the spouse still lives.

 

[Sketcher]

When I asked them why I was being subjected to Church discipline after they falsely assured me that they would not, they were evasive. To this day, I never got a straight answer from them regarding their duplicity.

This wasn't right, they should have been straight with you at first - or at least gotten the information at first that would have allowed them to tell you what would happen, before they told you what they would/wouldn't do.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

So yes, a church discipline process should have occurred, but it should have been church discipline against your wife for violating this set of instructions and forcing you to live in a sexless marriage (depriving you). If we consult Matthew 18, this is the process:

So the process starts with you confronting her over the 1 Corinthians 7 violation that I mentioned. If she had repented and chosen to engage with you again, that is where the process ends. But if she still refuses to follow the Scripture, you bring in a second witness to her misdeeds. In this case, the marriage counselor would have likely sufficed. If she persists even after this second witness is brought, you take her to the church and have her, not you, excommunicated for failing to obey the Scripture and follow this particular set of verses. Let the Church not be cowardly.

In my case, a church disciplinary proceeding against my wife would not have been an option. She was already attending a separate assembly and had no connection to the assembly I was going to at the time.

While they did agree that her actions were sinful in depriving me of the due marital rights - they said that her refusal to do so did not constitute valid grounds for divorce. In other words, I would have no choice but to put up with her neglect. In other words, yes her actions are sin, but you have to put up with it because God Hates Divorce.

I told the Church elders in no uncertain terms that I would have none of it. I was also adamant from the start that I would recognize no obligation to either put up with repeated neglect, or be condemned to celibacy for the rest of my life. I considered neither of these options acceptable. I told them that I would refuse to be celibate no matter what happened in my marriage.

Aside from that, I don't believe Jesus condemned any and all divorce and remarriage, regardless of the facts and circumstances.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

This wasn't right, they should have been straight with you at first - or at least gotten the information at first that would have allowed them to tell you what would happen, before they told you what they would/wouldn't do.

I would have had more respect for them if they would have said "if you do get a divorce for reasons we consider unscriptural, we will bring disciplinary actions against you and possibly ask you to leave." At least they would have been honest and up-front by doing so. What I do with that information is my business, not theirs.

I was very clear in what I was going to do in the event there is no possible solution other than divorce, so they have no excuse for pulling the rug out from under me.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

I don't think divorce should be limited to adultery and a non-believer not wanting to stay married to a believer. What about women that are abused by their husbands? Isn't that "marital unfaithfulness"?

You're right. If adultery were in fact the only valid grounds for divorce, the Law of Moses should have - and would have - been explicit on that point. There actually is no exhaustive list in Scripture for offenses that constitute grounds for divorce.

The tone in Scripture is that you don't divorce for selfish or trivial reasons. Instead, you can divorce for any material violation of the terms of the marital covenant. The whole point of divorce is to be rid of toxic and sinful bums who refuse to honor their marital vows.

To hold that adultery is the only valid ground for divorce is morally absurd and outrageous. By that reasoning:

Domestic violence is not a valid ground for divorce.
Neglect is not a valid ground for divorce.
Gross financial recklessness is not a valid ground for divorce.
Abandonment is not a valid ground for divorce. (Some variations say it is, but only if the abandoning spouse is an unbeliever!)
Attempted murder is not a valid ground for divorce.
But adultery, and adultery alone, is the one and only valid ground for divorce.

I hope this makes it clear as to why I don't recognize that doctrine as being of God.

 

[linux.poet]

While they did agree that her actions were sinful in depriving me of the due marital rights - they said that her refusal to do so did not constitute valid grounds for divorce. In other words, I would have no choice but to put up with her neglect. In other words, yes her actions are sin, but you have to put up with it because God Hates Divorce.

I wouldn't feel very much of a loss in having no contact with this church. I hope God leads you to find a new one.

I highly recommend that you and your wife attend the same church in your next marriage and that you make same church attendance a requirement for you entering into the marriage with her, so you can take church disciplinary action against your spouse if need be and have the process stick.

 

[angelsaroundme]

My thoughts are that if two people enter a partnership and the other person does not act like a partner over a long period of time, that is valid grounds for ending the partnership.

 

[dqhall]

You're right. If adultery were in fact the only valid grounds for divorce, the Law of Moses should have - and would have - been explicit on that point. There actually is no exhaustive list in Scripture for offenses that constitute grounds for divorce.

The tone in Scripture is that you don't divorce for selfish or trivial reasons. Instead, you can divorce for any material violation of the terms of the marital covenant. The whole point of divorce is to be rid of toxic and sinful bums who refuse to honor their marital vows.

To hold that adultery is the only valid ground for divorce is morally absurd and outrageous. By that reasoning:

Domestic violence is not a valid ground for divorce.
Neglect is not a valid ground for divorce.
Gross financial recklessness is not a valid ground for divorce.
Abandonment is not a valid ground for divorce. (Some variations say it is, but only if the abandoning spouse is an unbeliever!)
Attempted murder is not a valid ground for divorce.
But adultery, and adultery alone, is the one and only valid ground for divorce.

I hope this makes it clear as to why I don't recognize that doctrine as being of God.

Some Christians do not believe in recreational sex. They refuse birth control in favor of abstinence. Their only reason for sex is to produce offspring; to train and equip the next generation.

When two partners disagree about this, divorce might happen.

Most first marriages last a lifetime. Second and third marriages are more likely to split apart. The statistician did not mention fourth marriages.

I did not think highly enough of the marital calling. I regret missed opportunities. Being single is not easy either. The other day I saw a photo of a young healthy couple engaged to be married. I thought not as many in their 60’s are planning weddings. One of my uncles divorced, then found a lady housemate in his old age. They supported each other until she died. She left him the house and her relatives got her investments. At 63 I am handicapped. Too late for me to produce children.

Paul was single. He taught his people to avoid fornication. I think John the Baptist was single. The Essene community at Qumran was comprised of celibate males. They copied the Dead Sea Scrolls. Archaeologists found an all male cemetery there. Qumran is near where the Jordan River empties into the Dead Sea. The Roman Catholic clergy practices celibacy.