I want you all to use logic to prove to me that God exists

[ReasoningIsStrong]

I have been an atheist for about 12 years now, I was raised in a Catholic family and went to church until I was 7, when I couldn't take it anymore. Due to all the Bible's contradictions and obscure punishments, I decided that any gods could not exist.

So I want you guys to do that. Use logic to prove your god exists.

 

[Dark_Lite]

Moved to Exploring Christianity

 

[Faulty]

Contradictions and obscure punishments?

Logic demands a cause and effect here. You have been taught faulty information from the beginning, therefore your understanding about God is also faulty.

God is not required to make Himself live up to faulty assumptions. Rather, He's revealed Himself in general through His creation, and specifically through His word.

He's also given you the ability to read His word for yourself and promised He'll be found by those why truly seek Him.

Seems to me the logical place to search for Him is in the place He's made such promises, and not on a forum. However, if you want an established teacher who approaches the scriptures from a primarily logical and scientific standpoint, PM me and I'll send you the info to look into it.

 

[bling]

To use “Logic” we need to start where we agree and work from there:

Can we agree:
1. Something does not come from nothing?

2. What is “proof” to one person may not be enough “proof” for another person, so what we are looking for is the most logical alternative at this time?

3. Do you agree with the concept: “The more we know the more we realize we do not know?”

4. Do we not need to come up with a way to explain the “apparent” existence of “intelligent” design in the universe and especially with life?

5. If there is a benevolent God and there is a good logical beneficial reason for at least some humans not to have “proof” of His existence, than this God would not provide “proof” of His existence to those people?

6. If something had to be around forever than that something would be intelligent or unintelligent and if unintelligent there would have to be a system or way for that unintelligent something to show signs of really intelligent behavior to create our fine tuned universe and life. Is that even logically possible and if so explain the logic and support showing that logic?

7. Is there a problem with matter, energy and gravity always existing?

8. Atheist sometimes try to suggest that we are just one of an infinite number of universes, but what, how and why create all these universes (that machine makes universes)?

9. Is our universe cycling recreating itself and if you think so what are the limiting factors to cycling back to big bangs and is our expansion rate not increasing beyond reversal?

 

[Jack544]

I'm pretty sure the fact that the universe even has "laws" is proof enough of intelligent design. And the prophecies in the Bible are also proof. I have studied apologetics for a long time, so I have too much to fit in one post. XD

 

[drich0150]

I have been an atheist for about 12 years now, I was raised in a Catholic family and went to church until I was 7, when I couldn't take it anymore. Due to all the Bible's contradictions and obscure punishments, I decided that any gods could not exist.

So I want you guys to do that. Use logic to prove your god exists.

If you truly want to know if God exist, then why do you not humbly ask Him to "prove" it to you.

truthfully have a 7 year olds understanding of religion, and think it is God. it is on this you have based a whole 12 year tirade. Logic would dictate that you take another honest look at what you have completely closed your mind of to, if your are indeed as progressive as you think you are.. (If you say your mind is not close then I ask did you ask God to prove to you that He does exist?)

 

[laconicstudent]

I have been an atheist for about 12 years now, I was raised in a Catholic family and went to church until I was 7, when I couldn't take it anymore. Due to all the Bible's contradictions and obscure punishments, I decided that any gods could not exist.

So I want you guys to do that. Use logic to prove your god exists.

Why?

 

[Jack544]

Because he asked you to. This is his thread after all. And why did you bold logic?

 

[laconicstudent]

Because he asked you to.

And?

This is his thread after all.

So?

And why did you bold logic?

Because I wanted to know why he chose logic as some sort of criterion for no apparent reason.

 

[Jack544]

Logic is important. And when a non believer is giving you a chance to plant the seed, you should.

 

[drich0150]

Drich0150 (quote) "If you truly want to know if God exist, then why do you not humbly ask Him to "prove" it to you

(Reply) I, along with millions of others have done this a thousand times already; trust me it doesn’t work.

Ken

How do you know it doesn't work? Because you did not get what you expected?

If you put your money in a coke machine and it dispenses a coke, but you were expecting/wanted a Pepsi. does it mean the machine did not work because you did not get what you wanted?

Perhaps instead of asking for a specific something as proof, maybe you and the millions of others should ask that your eyes and ears be open, so you can see and hear what has already been provided...

Just because you asked and didn't get what you were expecting doesn't mean there is no God. It simply means you are expecting God to cater to you, rather than accepting the role the bible tells us we are to have with Him. Asking for Proof does indeed work if your heart is in the right place. If it is not, ask Him to help you change what you need to change in order for you to see and hear what He has to say.

 

[drich0150]

(reply)
Why must it be so difficult? If your God were real, why can’t a person with a sincere heart simply ask/pray that this God reveal himself to you and show you the right way to believe and live and have this answer revealed to you in a way that you recognize? And please don’t say it is that simple because when I was a Christian, I this a thousand times and had it happened it would have been all the proof that I needed.

Face it! What you say works for you (yes I have my doubts) doesn't work for everybody.

Actually it is that simple, lest your calling Jesus a liar:
Luke11:

5 Then Jesus said to them, “Suppose you have a friend, and you go to him at midnight and say, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves of bread; 6 a friend of mine on a journey has come to me, and I have no food to offer him.’ 7 And suppose the one inside answers, ‘Don’t bother me. The door is already locked, and my children and I are in bed. I can’t get up and give you anything.’ 8 I tell you, even though he will not get up and give you the bread because of friendship, yet because of your shameless audacity[e] he will surely get up and give you as much as you need.
9 “So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. 11 “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for[f] a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

We ask through Prayer, We Seek in the bible, church and places like this. (From seeking we learn what to ask for) We knock by repeating this process till our hearts get what it was looking for.

I would say if a man spent his life looking for God in this fashion, it was a life well spent. However if a man spent his life earnestly asking for magic tricks, some kind of personal verification or some sign or wonder, then he will get the verification (or lack there of) of a god who must pander to his people in order to earn their trust and eventual belief. (Such a God does not exist, that is why you keep coming up with nothing.)

You get what you ask for. If you want proof of who God is, then learn who it is you are supposed to be seeking. So when "proof" does present itself, you know what it is your looking at.

Seriously could you expect to marry someone and have a loving and successful marriage with your spouse if you had no clue as to who she was, and made no effort other than expecting her to fill your needs? How is this different?

 

[eugler]

Actually it is that simple, lest your calling Jesus a liar:
Luke11:

5 Then Jesus said to them, “Suppose you have a friend, and you go to him at midnight and say, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves of bread; 6 a friend of mine on a journey has come to me, and I have no food to offer him.’ 7 And suppose the one inside answers, ‘Don’t bother me. The door is already locked, and my children and I are in bed. I can’t get up and give you anything.’ 8 I tell you, even though he will not get up and give you the bread because of friendship, yet because of your shameless audacity[e] he will surely get up and give you as much as you need.
9 “So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. 11 “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for[f] a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

We ask through Prayer, We Seek in the bible, church and places like this. (From seeking we learn what to ask for) We knock by repeating this process till our hearts get what it was looking for.

I would say if a man spent his life looking for God in this fashion, it was a life well spent. However if a man spent his life earnestly asking for magic tricks, some kind of personal verification or some sign or wonder, then he will get the verification (or lack there of) of a god who must pander to his people in order to earn their trust and eventual belief. (Such a God does not exist, that is why you keep coming up with nothing.)

You get what you ask for. If you want proof of who God is, then learn who it is you are supposed to be seeking. So when "proof" does present itself, you know what it is your looking at.

Seriously could you expect to marry someone and have a loving and successful marriage with your spouse if you had no clue as to who she was, and made no effort other than expecting her to fill your needs? How is this different?

Can't resist this one. If this wife you are talking about exists on a realm outside phyisical reality or is simply imaginary, there is indeed no difference. If she's a real person that can be seen, felt and heard, the difference is obvious.

 

[salida]

Logic? Even if we show you logic your will may choose to believe otherwise. Would you believe us if we told you?

 

[grasping the after wind]

I have been an atheist for about 12 years now, I was raised in a Catholic family and went to church until I was 7, when I couldn't take it anymore. Due to all the Bible's contradictions and obscure punishments, I decided that any gods could not exist.

So I want you guys to do that. Use logic to prove your god exists.

Why are you asking us to prove God does exist by using logic while your decision that gods could not exist was not based on logic but on an emotional reaction to what you at the mature and reasonable age of 7 saw as obscure punishments and contradictions in a book of one particular religion?

 

[drich0150]

Can't resist this one. If this wife you are talking about exists on a realm outside physical reality or is simply imaginary, there is indeed no difference. If she's a real person that can be seen, felt and heard, the difference is obvious.

In turn I can't resist a response...

The underlining point I was making is one can not expect to be in a relationship if both parties are not equally involved. I know how easy it is to say, that because God does not cater to our specific expectations of involvement, we can arbitrarily dismissed what He has done as none existent.

My original analogy stands, because like in dating situation a potential spouse will communicate and want to connect. If you are receptive to, and can identify with the effort that is being made, you will have the makings of a solid relationship. However if you will not, or refuse to acknowledge your potential spouses efforts because they are not packaged in the manner you prefer, or have come accustom to, then even if you do get married your marriage will be with out love or without a mutualy loving relationship. Which is the ultimate goal I speak of and not a physical connection.

So how can you love someone/something that you do not currently know is there?
You simply ask that your eyes and ears be open, and then take the time to learn the nature of God.

 

[bling]

Bling (quote)” Can we agree:
1.Something does not come from nothing?
2.What is “proof” to one person may not be enough “proof” for another person, so what we are looking for is the most logical alternative at this time?
3.Do you agree with the concept: “The more we know the more we realize we do not know?””

(reply) I can agree with the first 3 questions

(quote)” 4.Do we not need to come up with a way to explain the “apparent” existence of “intelligent” design in the universe and especially with life?”

(reply) Actually explaining it would help. Because I don’t know how an “unintelligent” design of the Universe would be different than what we now have

This is a good question. If we had enough knowledge and information we might conclude that unintelligence could not produce a universe. The more we do study it (I am a Chemist) the more we realize how fine tuned it has to be and there is no reason for these constants and ratios to be fine tuned. As a Chemist I have looked at the possibility of chemicals on their own coming alive and that is just impossible. Also scientist keep pushing back the point of the first DNA life to be very close to the time DNA life could remain on earth (liquid water is available), so when did it have time to develop? Why can we not under control environments and lots scientific minds at least come up with a possible way for it to happen?

There is either unintelligent doing the seemingly impossible or the possibility of intelligence, so which takes more faith?

(quote)” 5.If there is a benevolent God and there is a good logical beneficial reason for at least some humans not to have “proof” of His existence, than this God would not provide “proof” of His existence to those people?”

(reply) What’s the worst that can happen if he were to provide absolute proof of his existence to everybody on Earth? Seems to me that’s the least he should do especially when you consider what’s at stake.

The “worse that could happen” is: with human knowledge there is self reliance (pride) and a handicap that could keep some from fulfill their earthly objective. Man’s object is not to know there is a God, but it has to do with correctly accepting Charity. Correctly accepting Charity from a giver that paid a huge personal price to give the gift, requires humility and not self confidence. Trusting in the existence of a benevolent God is an act of humility (this goes against self reliance) and that humility is all that is needed to accept His Charity.
(

quote)” 6.If something had to be around forever than that something would be intelligent or unintelligent and if unintelligent there would have to be a system or way for that unintelligent something to show signs of really intelligent behavior to create our fine tuned universe and life. Is that even logically possible and if so explain the logic and support showing that logic?

(reply) Maybe lots of things have been around forever; some intelligent some unintelligent. And what proof do you have that something was ever “created” maybe everything that currently exist has always existed in one way or another and just evolved in to what it is right now.

I do not know of any scientist saying there was no “Big Bang”?

If there was/is some “intelligent” something that has been around “forever” it is much more likely to be the “creator” of our universe than random reactions.

Matter and energy do not “evolve”, but move toward equilibrium and entropy.


God is not going to be “proven” beyond a shadow of doubt on earth at this time. What I have been looking at is the alternative of there not being a God and trying to come up with the most logical alternative (Creator or no creator).

God has proven His existence to me, but I have already humbly accepted His Charity. God is not going to proof His existence to you in order to help you fulfill your objective in this life. Do you feel burdened by your past actions that have hurt others? Do you want a selfless type Love that would compel you to sacrifice your own desires?

 

[ddjones1230]

.

 

[Italianguy]

First: There are no contradictions! God's word is perfect!

Second: If His word isn't good enough for you, you have to answer for that, not us!

 

[elman]

First: There are no contradictions! God's word is perfect!

Second: If His word isn't good enough for you, you have to answer for that, not us!

If you are saying the Bible is perfect then the Bible is correct when it says Jesus is the Word--not the Bible. There are many contradictions in the Bible. All have been alleged to have been explained, but the explanations are not adequate for me. Example--God is good and truth according to Jesus and God sent a lying spirit according to Kings and is the source of evil according to Isiah.