I want to talk

[cubinity]

I don't want to talk about something that is isolated to CF, but seems to happen a lot in much of my experience with the faith.

People get so emotional about what they believe, and what they believe not only differs dramatically from those who claim not to believe in it, but their individual beliefs also differ in many ways from those who claim to share the same faith.

I understand something about the Gospel, and I consider it good news, and I believe that if others get to hear it, it will help them accept more of the Gospel.

The problem is that I can't even get agreement from my fellow Christians, so we end up going back and forth between us.

I'm into the Law, and that's seen as living in bondage.
I'm not into the Law, and that's seen as missing God's will.
I listen to the Westboro Baptist Church, and that's seen as too hateful.
I listen to Rob Bell, and that's seen as too new age.
I espouse loyalty to the RCC, and only accept church-approved ideas.
I am a non-denominational Protestant who doesn't even want to be labelled as that.
Whatever it is about me, they are a world of Christians out there ready and waiting to argue with me about it.

Now, unbeknownst to me, this argumentative nature of faith-based dialogue is perfect because non-believers can sit back, listen to the dialogue, and get something meaningful out of each side.

I see the debating as somehow hurting my message, so I start to get upset, and then I start saying things I shouldn't, and before I know it, the thread that I started in order to share some bit of good news is being closed for review because I have resorted to flaming my fellow Christians!

[staff edit]

 

[cubinity]

If God's Law isn't binding, then why did Jesus die on the cross for your sins?
I would like to hear you explain justification of Christ's death without getting into binding laws stemming from God's legal system.
When you can do that, then maybe I'll buy that the Law has been abolished.

 

[beleeue firstati]

I don't want to talk about something that is isolated to CF, but seems to happen a lot in much of my experience with the faith.

People get so emotional about what they believe, and what they believe not only differs dramatically from those who claim not to believe in it, but their individual beliefs also differ in many ways from those who claim to share the same faith.

I understand something about the Gospel, and I consider it good news, and I believe that if others get to hear it, it will help them accept more of the Gospel.

The problem is that I can't even get agreement from my fellow Christians, so we end up going back and forth between us.

I'm into the Law, and that's seen as living in bondage.
I'm not into the Law, and that's seen as missing God's will.
I listen to the Westboro Baptist Church, and that's seen as too hateful.
I listen to Rob Bell, and that's seen as too new age.
I espouse loyalty to the RCC, and only accept church-approved ideas.
I am a non-denominational Protestant who doesn't even want to be labelled as that.
Whatever it is about me, they are a world of Christians out there ready and waiting to argue with me about it.

Now, unbeknownst to me, this argumentative nature of faith-based dialogue is perfect because non-believers can sit back, listen to the dialogue, and get something meaningful out of each side.

I see the debating as somehow hurting my message, so I start to get upset, and then I start saying things I shouldn't, and before I know it, the thread that I started in order to share some bit of good news is being closed for review because I have resorted to flaming my fellow Christians!

[staff edit]

The Lord bless you a 1000 times more as much as you have in your life now.
amen

 

[Edial]

​

Thread was renamed and some stuff edited out.

We can discuss all things, flames and fighting we could do without.

Thank you.
In Christ,
Ed

 

[cubinity]

Fantastic!!!!

 

[Yarddog]

I want to talk

SHUT UP.





Just kidding. I feel your pain. Be comforted that none of us will argue when in the presence of the Lord.

 

[Blueforest]

Why not just live your life, let others live theirs and be happy?

Life is too short for petty religious arguments that don't matter worth a hill of beans.

Be who you are, be true to yourself and don't let others define who you are. Let them say what they want and follow your own path, as they follow theirs.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I think that I understand your frustration, cubinity. I find myself bewildered sometimes that a good portion of the church isn't concerned with the same issues as the rest.

However, my wife reminded me of something important the other day: it's best to lead by example. It's true, and maybe that's how your side of things would best be presented? I know that if I want to see more concern for the oppressed and marginalized, that myself and others need to continue setting an example for the rest to follow.

Either way, your OP is good, I think it's raising some challenging points.

 

[mindlight]

I don't want to talk about something that is isolated to CF, but seems to happen a lot in much of my experience with the faith.

People get so emotional about what they believe, and what they believe not only differs dramatically from those who claim not to believe in it, but their individual beliefs also differ in many ways from those who claim to share the same faith.

I understand something about the Gospel, and I consider it good news, and I believe that if others get to hear it, it will help them accept more of the Gospel.

The problem is that I can't even get agreement from my fellow Christians, so we end up going back and forth between us.

I'm into the Law, and that's seen as living in bondage.
I'm not into the Law, and that's seen as missing God's will.
I listen to the Westboro Baptist Church, and that's seen as too hateful.
I listen to Rob Bell, and that's seen as too new age.
I espouse loyalty to the RCC, and only accept church-approved ideas.
I am a non-denominational Protestant who doesn't even want to be labelled as that.
Whatever it is about me, they are a world of Christians out there ready and waiting to argue with me about it.

Now, unbeknownst to me, this argumentative nature of faith-based dialogue is perfect because non-believers can sit back, listen to the dialogue, and get something meaningful out of each side.

I see the debating as somehow hurting my message, so I start to get upset, and then I start saying things I shouldn't, and before I know it, the thread that I started in order to share some bit of good news is being closed for review because I have resorted to flaming my fellow Christians!

[staff edit]

There is a definite right and wrong in my view although its not always what we passionately believe it is. Gods thoughts are always higher than our own. The humility to listen for when we are in the wrong and apologise for when we spread lies or misinformation is important.

I have been online for almost 15 years now debating in forums like that and my experiences have moulded the way I try and discuss important issues - like the good news, politics and history for instance.

One formative experience I had was of debating with someone who said they were female but who turned out to be male for instance. The way they spoke sounded female and they seemed to communicate female emotions. But then someone who knew them showed them to be male. Big deal you might think but it radically altered the way I spoke online. As I suddenly realised I have no way of really knowing the person on the other end through this medium. But regarding the issues it really does not matter who they are - it only matters if they can support the case they argue. For all I know many of the most beligerant Christians on these boards are actually only atheists trying to give Christians a bad name. Many of those who say they are of a certain nationality may actually be immigrants intent on slagging off societies they feel have marginalised them. So I tend to ignore the emotion and stick to the issues. After a while you start to trust some peoples judgment on a matter and to doubt the judgment of others but based on the things they have actually shared on these boards. They may be entirely different people in real life of course but on these boards they have credible identities and seem to be wise and knowledgeable and true.

In the end I try and live with integrity in accordance with the words I share because in the long run I believe this honesty shines through. When we betray the principles we share sooner or later that comes out in the way we speak and share with others, if we are living in accordance with what we share I believe our words have more power in the long run.

 

[Edial]

​

Folks.
The purpose of GT is to discuss theology.

Otherwise this is turning into an off-topic thread.

 

[Emmy]

Dear cubinity. I want to talk about two Commandments, and Jesus told us: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." In Matthew, chapter 22, verses 35-40, Jesus told a Lawyer: " The first and great Commandment is: Love thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: Love thy neighbour as thyself." Then Jesus states the fact that these two Commandments mean all the Law and the Prophets: O.T. as well as N.T. It is Love which God wants from us: With all our heart, with all our soul, and with all our mind: And love for our neighbour as for ourselves. Needless to point out that God wants selfless, and beneficial love for all we know and all we meet, whether friends or not friends. That is straightforward and easy to remember. a good way to start: Treat all we know and all we meet as we would love to be treated: with kindness, consideration, a listening ear and helpful hand, if needed, and a friendly smile rather than angry looks or words, be forgiving as God has forgiven us, in short, be a good neighbour. God will see our sincere efforts, and God will approve and bless us. God will know that we love Him, by following His Commandments to love, and being the sons and daughters He wants us to be. We have Jesus who will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit empower us with His Love. " Ask and ye will receive," is what Jesus promised us. Our lives will become as Jesus promised us: we will have Life abundantly. With God on our side, who, or what can be against us? I say this with love, cubinity. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ. P.S. Love is a Christian`s weapon, and no argument can wrong it.

 

[singpeace]

Hi Cubinity.

You aren't the only Christian losing his temper in CF debate forums. At least you are honest about your issue in this area, and that is hopeful. When I was young, God showed me how my temper and pride were bringing dishonor to him. I had to practice, practice, practice until I gained full control over my thoughts and words and actions towards others.

We should all be practicing self-control, and we should find it a joy to remain loving and peaceful even when others attack us. I hope you have begun to work on making this your goal as it is something that we are told to pursue.
“Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.” (Ps. 34:14).
“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord” (Heb. 12:14).

God's Word says,
“Let your [gentleness] be known unto all men . . . .” (Phil. 4:5).
“Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous: Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing” (1 Pet. 3:8-9).

This 'being of one mind' doesn't mean we all agree on every shade of doctrine. It does mean we are all to have compassion, love, pity and peace toward one another in our minds and in the words we use.

In the world, even the most trivial issues can lead to mayhem, and when emotions take over reasoning, proper perspective and importance of the issue is completely lost. Both parties generally think they are right, yet the Bible says,
“There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death” (Prov.14:12).


“The discretion of a man deferreth his anger; and it is his glory to pass over a transgression” (Prov. 19:11).

"You are so proud of knowing the law, but you dishonor God by breaking it." (Rom. 2:23)

“A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident” (Prov. 14:16).

“He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls” (Prov. 25:28).



"But the fruit of the Spirit is Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Gentleness, Goodness, Faith, Meekness, Temperance [Self Control]: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another." (Gal. 5:22-26)

"Always be humble and gentle. Be patient with each other, making allowance for each other’s faults because of your love." (Eph. 4:2)

"Since God chose you to be the holy people he loves, you must clothe yourselves with tenderhearted mercy, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience." (Col. 3:12)

"But the wisdom from above is first of all pure. It is also peace loving, gentle at all times, and willing to yield to others. It is full of mercy and good deeds. It shows no favoritism and is always sincere." (James 3:17)

 

[Optimax]

SHUT UP.[/b]





Just kidding. I feel your pain. Be comforted that none of us will argue when in the presence of the Lord.

AMEN!!

Then you guys will see that I was right all along.

 

[funestis]

I think it can be both good and bad that the Christian church is fractured. Bad because there's so much more we could accomplish if we were unified, and we would present one face to the world. Good because if we were all completely unified I think there would be little progress towards understanding what God wants from us and how we can benefit the world. Ultimately I think being a Christian comes down to two fundamental ideas 1 - Love God with all your strength, 2 - love your neighbor as you do yourself. The rest is just extra.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I think it can be both good and bad that the Christian church is fractured. Bad because there's so much more we could accomplish if we were unified, and we would present one face to the world. Good because if we were all completely unified I think there would be little progress towards understanding what God wants from us and how we can benefit the world. Ultimately I think being a Christian comes down to two fundamental ideas 1 - Love God with all your strength, 2 - love your neighbor as you do yourself. The rest is just extra.

Hi funestism and welcome to CF!

Being able to discuss and debate theological differences causes us to think, rethink, and study God's word.

I can't help but think that if there were only one denomination to which we all belonged, that there would be a tendency to become stagnant.

Certainly some will changes Churches on account of how they grow; others like myself will grow more steadfast and comfortable in our denom's own skin.

I believe such diversity is a blessing!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

SHUT UP.[/b]

Just kidding. I feel your pain. Be comforted that none of us will argue when in the presence of the Lord.

When on the GT board, best to speak softly and carry a nice pair of ear plugs

Acts 7:51 Ye stiff-necked and uncircumcised to hearts and to the ears,......
Acts 7:54 Now when they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed upon him with their teeth.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord;
Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon and saying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit"

 

[quantumboy7]

I'm a newbie here, but I can certainly relate, cubinity. Theology can be a dangerous word. "Theology" literally means "knowledge of God" or "discourse about God." By definition, our theology can never be complete or chiseled into stone because God is infinite and we, actually, are not. I am always suspicious of those who want to hammer the Gospel into a rigid little box, because the truth of God is so much richer! I experience the same frustrations you do mainly because people often seem to be more in love with their theology than with Jesus.

Unfortunately, human nature tends to allow or even encourage differences to separate us, but when we come together, our differing theologies ought to unite us in conversation, and stimulate us toward unity so we can delve in together and discern the truth. I don't know why many Christians seem to believe that God's truth is so fragile. I say let's dive in and allow our theology to evolve. Yes, evolution does not have to be a dirty word.

 

[from scratch]

I don't want to talk about something that is isolated to CF, but seems to happen a lot in much of my experience with the faith.

People get so emotional about what they believe, and what they believe not only differs dramatically from those who claim not to believe in it, but their individual beliefs also differ in many ways from those who claim to share the same faith.

I understand something about the Gospel, and I consider it good news, and I believe that if others get to hear it, it will help them accept more of the Gospel.

The problem is that I can't even get agreement from my fellow Christians, so we end up going back and forth between us.

I'm into the Law, and that's seen as living in bondage.
I'm not into the Law, and that's seen as missing God's will.
I listen to the Westboro Baptist Church, and that's seen as too hateful.
I listen to Rob Bell, and that's seen as too new age.
I espouse loyalty to the RCC, and only accept church-approved ideas.
I am a non-denominational Protestant who doesn't even want to be labelled as that.
Whatever it is about me, they are a world of Christians out there ready and waiting to argue with me about it.

Now, unbeknownst to me, this argumentative nature of faith-based dialogue is perfect because non-believers can sit back, listen to the dialogue, and get something meaningful out of each side.

I see the debating as somehow hurting my message, so I start to get upset, and then I start saying things I shouldn't, and before I know it, the thread that I started in order to share some bit of good news is being closed for review because I have resorted to flaming my fellow Christians!

[staff edit]

I very much share your pain. It is a pathetic shame really what goes on here.

Some (well many) refuse to read their Bible and only push what they have herad without examination. What goes on here is a discussion of religion and not our relationship with God. Now don't get me wrong here. I didn't say both don't get discussed. They do, but out of perspective. I find we can't even agree on published definitions. Is it because they don't fit our agenda. Speaking of which - can folks with a personal agenda be recognized from those who don't? Will some people not listen to anything? How can one participate in a discussion and be ignored or ignore others? beats me. But it goes on all the time without regard if one party responds to the ideas of the other. Seems like to me some demand to be parroted. Ah emotionalism to the max. Who doesn't get caught up in it at least sometimes?

I could go on but wish to stay out of some trouble. Yeppers that's right the rules restrain me.

 

[from scratch]

If God's Law isn't binding, then why did Jesus die on the cross for your sins?
I would like to hear you explain justification of Christ's death without getting into binding laws stemming from God's legal system.
When you can do that, then maybe I'll buy that the Law has been abolished.

Beats me. Some say that they can keep the law. Isn't that saying they don't sin? I think so. What does the Bible say? Who is right them or the Bible? They say it is them. We're not talking about the laws of magnetism here. Opposites don't attract - they repell in spiritual matters. So what ya gonna do? Let them be deceived? Or try and show them and others the truth. But of course we both say we have the truth. Who then tries to get around the Scriptures by posting a seemingly opposing Scripture and ignoring many others?

 

[from scratch]

Why not just live your life, let others live theirs and be happy?

Life is too short for petty religious arguments that don't matter worth a hill of beans.

Be who you are, be true to yourself and don't let others define who you are. Let them say what they want and follow your own path, as they follow theirs.

Ah then there's not much need for anything in life except food and water. But vanity is so appealing and very few can resist.