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I want to be saved but

ToBeLoved

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James 2:19-20
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble!
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?


An intellectual assent, a belief, in God, or in Christ as the Redeemer of humanity, is no greater a feat than what a demon can boast. As James points out here, "even the demons believe -- and tremble!" Are demons going to heaven? No. Are they disciples of Christ? No. Clearly, then, mere belief in Christ or God is not sufficient to obtain salvation and a relationship with either one. The kind of belief the Bible calls us to is the sort that emanates from the heart, not just the mind. It is a belief that is powerful enough to shape our thoughts, attitudes and conduct. And that belief, Scripture tells us, must be intimately connected to a love for Christ and God. Our Maker intends that our conduct, shaped by our belief, is motivated by love for Him.

This is one of the worst uses of scripture I have seen in a long time. We cannot compare OUR relationship with God and what a demon's relationship is with God.

The only thing similar between a demon and man as they were both created by God. The resemblance ends there. Demon's do not have access to salvation through Christ, we do.

You are saying that demons believe in God and we believe in God so demons are like us and it's not about belief in Christ? That is complete and utter nonsense.

There is nothing that ever compares human beings and demons as far as God is concerned. The angels that choose to forsake God and leave their heavenly dwelling are totally separate from us. The Bible is about human beings and their relationship to God.
 
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Steven Wood

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Hey Steve I remember ya man lol. Sorry it took a while to respond but yeah I've learned a lot from this thread as it is a little old but still good. Oh and you were like one of the first cool Christians on here no offense to anyone lol. And yeah death shouldn't bother me but it does idk why. I don't know like life is useless ya know if fhey only point is heaven or whatever idk. Maybe god doesn't want me to know everything but why? Idk about reading the bible like it is so much? Is the old testament useless now or no? Thanks for being cool tho.
No man, The way I really see it, Jesus read the Old Testament, he said he not only came to enforce it but to Re-enforce it. Plus I find more in it the more I read it. As for you not really being ready to have faith buddy, I can really tell you this. First, You can't be expected to put your faith in someone you don't know right off the bat, That's why It's an ever groing relationship with Christ. Human conditioning has put doubt in our mind and made us know that people are out to put one over on us. We can't excpect others to to give us something for nothing. Now we have to remember that though Jesus was a man he was also more than that and without sin so he didn't fall to human conditioning. Second. Jesus said if we have faith the size of a mustard seed we can do anything, more specifically he said we can tell a mountain to jump into the sea and it will, look at this like a problem you're facing. o don't worry about not having faith enough buddy, You're faith will grow the more you see GOD working in your life, he knows that we're creatures that need to see to believe, that's where doubting Thomas comes into the story.Everyone has there own personal walk and there own personal story. I do believe there's a reason you're here and a reason you're having a struggle. You will get there. Start with prayer. I can tell you this though, The more you think about GOD the more struggles you'll have in your life, things work that way. There's alway a tug of war going on buddy. You have to decide for yourself and I'll be praying with ya bub. If you want to start reading the Bible sart out readin the New testament and the Gospels first then hit the Old Testament later.
 
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Zandy12

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Maybe you are right about that. Should I jus believe in Jesus and I'll be fine is that all. Do I have to follow the other rules or no?

This isn't an easy question to answer. But definitely belief in Jesus is start to a christian's life. I recommend that you read the book in the bible Ecclesiastes. It's a book written King David's son Solomon as he questions the meaning of life and christian's purpose in it. Then he concludes his conquest by stating "Fear God, and keep his commandments; for that is the whole duty of everyone" (12:13). Whatever political views you hold beyond that and what you believe is right is your choice. There isn't really a conveyor belt path for a christian (although it would make life ten times easier) but you shouldn't be too paranoid about it. Definitely read that book it helped me alot.
 
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ToBeLoved

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I'm afraid you've not carefully considered what I wrote. Almost nothing of your characterization of my comments is accurate. Try a re-read. Perhaps you'll better understand my comments the second time around.

Selah.

This is what you wrote:

As James points out here, "even the demons believe -- and tremble!" Are demons going to heaven? No. Are they disciples of Christ? No. Clearly, then, mere belief in Christ or God is not sufficient to obtain salvation and a relationship with either one


Using the fact that demons believe in Christ also as a justification that it is not only belief in Christ for humanity. However, the demons have seen God and know that God and Jesus exist. Humanity has not had that. We believe and have faith.

Two entirely different scenarios.
 
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RDKirk

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I want to be a Christian but I can't. I would like to believe in god but the thing is I just can't due to certain questions I have in mind. Like the redsea parting, the ark and a few more. I don't know maybe it's because I'm scared of death that I'd like to believe in god. If it matters I was sort of a Christian years ago and well kind of just lost complete faith for reasons.

Read this closely:

But at midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them. Suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and everyone’s chains were loosed.

And the keeper of the prison, awaking from sleep and seeing the prison doors open, supposing the prisoners had fled, drew his sword and was about to kill himself. But Paul called with a loud voice, saying, “Do yourself no harm, for we are all here.”

Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house.

And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.
-- Acts 16

The Philippian jailer was a Roman citizen. He had a proud national history and a Greek philosophical and scientific background. But at that hour of midnight, he realized he needed to be "saved"--and that was after learning that the prisoners were still captive, so he knew he needed to be saved from something more than that moment's urgency.

He was baptized that very same hour. But what theology did he have to know? How much doctrine had he assented to? Had he consciously abandoned his Graeco-Roman concepts of creation or Hades? Had he gotten an "A" in the full courses of the books of Romans and the Apocalypse of John before he was baptized?

The gospel is much slimmer than most Christians make it out to be.

Would he get it eventually? Probably--but all else is founded on his relationship with Jesus and His Church, and can be deferred until then.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
...
By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
-- Hebrews 11

A whole lot of Christians seem to have their faith based in "things seen"--the things God created instead of in God. They fear that if they change their beliefs about the created things, they will lose their belief in the uncreated God. Their belief in the uncreated God is founded on what they believe about the things God created.

That is backward belief and weak. Faith is that the worlds (notice the plural) were framed by the word of God--how they were framed is irrelevant to real faith.

Defer the details, get to the heart, Jesus and Him crucified.
 
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aiki

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Using the fact that demons believe in Christ also as a justification that it is not only belief in Christ for humanity. However, the demons have seen God and know that God and Jesus exist. Humanity has not had that. We believe and have faith.

Two entirely different scenarios.

Since my comments were based on what the apostle James wrote, are you suggesting he is in error, too? I certainly hope not.

How do you interpret James' comment about the demons believing and trembling in the context of his remarks about faith needing to have corresponding works? It is not enough simply to point out the differences between demons and humans in their experience of God. How does doing so make any difference to James' comments and my own?

Selah.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Since my comments were based on what the apostle James wrote, are you suggesting he is in error, too? I certainly hope not.

How do you interpret James' comment about the demons believing and trembling in the context of his remarks about faith needing to have corresponding works? It is not enough simply to point out the differences between demons and humans in their experience of God. How does doing so make any difference to James' comments and my own?

Selah.
You said that Christians are not saved purely by faith and as an example of this you use the fact that demons believe in Jesus. However, demons know God and the Son of God. It is therefore not a matter of faith with them, because they knew God and turned away. To say that human beings are not saved by faith and belief because demons believe also in God is two totally different scenarios, which two totally different created beings.

I do not have a problem with the verbage that demons believe in Christ or what James said. I have a problem with you proofing that we are not justified by faith in Jesus Christ because even the demons believe and they are not saved. That's where I have the issue. God sent Jesus Christ as a redeemer for His human creation. Us.

If you believe in works, than say that but don't misconsrew what James said by comparing our salvation with any other part of God's creation. God didn't make a covenant with demons and send Jesus. God made a covenant with human beings and sent Jesus.
 
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ToBeLoved

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How do you interpret James' comment about the demons believing and trembling in the context of his remarks about faith needing to have corresponding works? It is not enough simply to point out the differences between demons and humans in their experience of God. How does doing so make any difference to James' comments and my own?
Selah.

Works is a natural progression of a changed heart and mind. Faith brings about works as a natural progression of who we are in Christ and our expressing that.
 
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aiki

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You said that Christians are not saved purely by faith and as an example of this you use the fact that demons believe in Jesus. However, demons know God and the Son of God. It is therefore not a matter of faith with them, because they knew God and turned away. To say that human beings are not saved by faith and belief because demons believe also in God is two totally different scenarios, which two totally different created beings.

But this isn't actually what I said. Again, read more carefully what I wrote. I did not say that belief was not important to salvation. What I did say was that not just any kind of belief will do. Mere intellectual assent, simply agreeing that something is true, is not the kind of belief that saves. As James pointed out, the kind of belief that does save is the kind that results in action, that shapes behaviour. Many people agree that Jesus was God and died on a cross for their sins, but this agreement, this intellectual assent, has no bearing at all on how they live. And this is true of demons, too. The know and agree that Jesus is God and that he died on a cross for the sins of humanity, but agreeing that this is true does not make them any less the enemies of God. You see, then, that not just any kind of belief is required for salvation. As James explained, a faith, a belief, that does not produce corresponding behaviour is not saving faith.

I have a problem with you proofing that we are not justified by faith in Jesus Christ because even the demons believe and they are not saved. That's where I have the issue. God sent Jesus Christ as a redeemer for His human creation. Us.

But I did not write that "we are not justified by faith in Jesus Christ." That is the construction you have put on my words. I most certainly do believe we are justified by faith and that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. But saving faith, as I have explained, always has a resulting effect on behaviour. If you tell me you've been saved and you're still living like the devil, I have good cause to doubt your claim of salvation.

Maybe next time, before you jump all over somebody, you ought to make sure you actually understand their position.

Selah.
 
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oi_antz

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I want to be a Christian but I can't.
Maybe you are right about that. Should I jus believe in Jesus and I'll be fine is that all. Do I have to follow the other rules or no?
Hey Josh, it's as though these two things are really central to this. It is important to know why you want to be Christian, but it is also important to know what being Christian means (what does it require from you, what is it for). You can understand that if you don't have the right view of the second question, then your answer to the first question might be misplaced. So I feel like I should go ahead and describe a bit to you of what being Christian is, what it requires of you, and why. Then when you take that and think about it, as the gravity (size) of the situation dawns on you, then probably you will become motivated to be Christian and nothing will stop you. But then again, we do know that some people are naturally resistant to it that they will prevent the reality from dawning on them. You don't seem to have gone too far that way though.

So you know the story is that God made a bunch of wonderful creatures in His world, some angels and some humans and some animals and plants and things, and He looked on all of this and was pleased with it. Can you imagine the sort of joy that He must have had, as He was watching the butterflies fluttering around the flowers, and the calves leaping in the grass? So something happened eh, because now we have a world where atrocities happen, where so many of His wonderful creatures that should be thrilled and loving life and praising Him for it, hate life and are eager to die, and they despise Him too. Maybe you can imagine how this is heart breaking for Him.

But you know too that some people are not content when they have enough, they always seem to want more of what they like? (That's all of us too btw, if we allow ourselves to become focused on the material life). Have you seen how this results in people taking away from others the things that they need and are naturally designed to have, that makes them content? This is because the civilisation we have established is accustomed to a concept of property ownership and the earning of it.

There's two ways to motivate people, that is by force and by desire. We have a civilisation that is motivated by force. If you want your house painted, you pay someone to do it, and they will do it. Because you have enough money to motivate them to do it, you are able to force them to do it. However, if you don't have enough money to motivate them to do it, you are not able to force them to do it. On the other hand, people often feel good about doing things as they are motivated by love. For an example of this, my friend's computer recently got hacked and she brought it around for me to fix it. I was fully pleased to do it without any expectation of money, because I know that she could not do it herself and I could see that she was suffering without it, and it only took me 2 hours to fix it. Well she didn't have to force me, because I was motivated to do it by my own willing desire. Also, a sort of a surprise is that she brought around a bag of chicken food for my chooks, because she has found it is popular among her customers and she thought my chooks might quite like it. But keep in mind, the whole world normally operates in a coercive manner, whereby people aren't motivated by what they are doing for someone else's sake, but they are only motivated if it is going to satisfy their own needs.

If you begin to look into the idea of Christianity in terms of setting up a world where life never ends, you find that this is really at the very centre of it. You can see in Matthew 25:34-36 and Matthew 25:41-43, that those who are selected for everlasting life are the very ones who care about others, who actually provide for others the things they need, that is not contingent on recompense. From this we can imagine a society in heaven where everyone actually cares about each other and is always motivated for the other's concerns. This is a supportive, nurturing, loving society where nobody should be discontent. If you look at Luke 6:30, you can see that the resurrected world will be like this. Jesus lived that way too, see Matthew 21:1-3 and Mark 14:13-15 for examples.

The vision that God had to bring this about, and that He promised to Abraham too, is that through his offspring, the world would come to know Him and worship Him. This was promised to Abraham because of his faith, which is the type of faith that is the very nature as we are describing. If you know the story of the test to sacrifice his son Isaac, you can see that Isaac was very special to Abraham, as being a 100 year old man with a 90 year old wife, and Isaac being his only son, we can easily imagine that probably there is nothing else in his life that he would want more than his own son. Yet, he did choose faithfully to forego his own desire so that he would do what God required of him.

Make sure you understand that, because it is what Christianity requires.

We do know that God sometimes requires us to forego our own desires, and that often it is difficult to do so. We can observe too, that whenever He does this, it is for a good cause. We are never expected to suffer our own desires for a no-good reason. Consider this in context of Jesus Christ's own life. Take for example His 40 day fast in the desert. He was tempted to turn stones to bread, and He was tempted to take the easy route to rule. Later on too, He was tempted by the religious leaders to perform for them, yet He chose to do what God required of Him, which we can sort of imagine was extremely costly, but probably we can not really absorb the fullness of. For some examples: He became sin so that we can live - that is to say, He allowed Himself to be tried and found guilty of blasphemy, and was executed as a criminal without defending Himself, even though He could rightfully have justified Himself and forced the world to surrender. He has allowed the world to continue in darkness for two thousand years, whereby people do the most atrocious things that I don't want to imagine. They mock and taunt God, they persecute, torture and kill the ones He loves, the ones who challenge their sinful ways. They cultivate a culture to confuse people such as yourself to follow them, whereas under ideal conditions you would be rejoicing and praising Him. This is not to mention too the personal humiliation that He has suffered as He has allowed the world to indulge in all such disbelief. So I have thought about this a bit and have been able to imagine that the temptations expressed in Matthew 16:22-23 and Matthew 26:53 are far beyond our imaginations' ability to comprehend. This all goes to emphasise why Jesus' perseverance right to the end has proven that the human can overcome sin, so that He is satisfied that we can truly be entrusted again with the tree of life, and this is why it is said about Jesus, that every knee shall bow to Him, and every tongue shall confess that He is The Lord.

So what that means for us, anyone who loves life so much that they really do want for it to never end, is that we too need to be prepared to live in such a way. We need to please God with our lives. We need to make life good for those who we share the world with, and not destroy their natural, God-given right to love life and to praise Him. In order to do this, we need to know about ourselves, the limitations of our own gratification. It is natural to have desires, because some things are simply pleasant to us. But we need to know of ourselves, the extent at which our desires begin to influence us to behave in a way that displeases God, or that makes life less pleasant for those we share the world with.

I have been considering a lot lately, the description of the seven deadly sins, which probably you are surprised I have only recently learned. Well, on the Wikipedia page, it describes how these sins have been identified as the ones that can cause a loss of "grace" and "charity". Both grace and charity are requirements of our character for others to be pleased to have us in their life. Grace is the pleasant, soft, kind, warm treatment (regard) for each other, that makes us someone who people like to know. On the other hand, someone who is not graceful is rude, harsh, unkind etc and usually makes us want to get rid of them. Charity is the one that is described in Matthew 25 as whereby if someone needs, we share. The opposite of this is to hoard. For an example of this, if we are sharing lunch with someone and they have only enough for a coffee and a cookie, and we have enough for a meal, the sin of "gluttony" might cause us to be uncharitable, where we might not share our meal with them. This in turn might cause them to "envy" us, which too is a sin, and that can cause them to be disgraceful toward us and uncharitable. Whereas on the other hand, if we are to sacrifice our own desire, we would overcome the sin of gluttony and we would be able to exercise charitably to share our meal with them. The other ones are Lust, Pride, Wrath, Envy, Sloth, Gluttony, Greed.

So to be a Christian is to realise that life is not all for us alone, but it is for everyone. So we are called to shift out of the status-quo of the world, which is to use every day to do as much as we can for our own pleasure. Instead what a Christian comes to realise, is that this life is temporary, it is passing away, but when the end comes, we are called to stand before God and to give an account of our life. At this time, if we are standing comfortably with Him, there can be a mutual agreement to have life forever. A Christian fixes that as their target, they learn about what God wants from them and they pay attention to the lessons He gives them in life, as they encounter situations and reflect upon the way they acted. When a Christian perceives that God is teaching them of some error in their nature, they recognise their error and accept that they must change. That is what "repentance" describes, and it is something that we can expect for the rest of our life, and probably in the one hereafter.

Jesus said that no person can serve two masters, because he will end up loving one and hating the other. This goes to describe that if there is anything that we are attached to that is causing us to commit any of those seven deadly sins, then it is contrary to what God wants, and it is therefore sin for us. But it is not to say that everyone struggles in the same way. For an example of this, take the sin of Lust. The effect of Lust is not that we aren't allowed to look at human beauty, but rather that when we commit the sin of Lust, we are actually degrading the person from being regarded in our view as someone to be honoured, to being regarded in our view as a thing to give us pleasure. What naturally causes, is a lesser amount of grace toward that person. Yet, it doesn't mean to say that we can't look at human beauty and admire it, but that we should keep our mind pure so that the sin does not cause a death of spiritual countenance.

So if you are considering to be a Christian, this is what it means: it is literally the choosing to forego your own love of life in order to give everyone else a life that they love. And this would please God. And then to go the full measure in this, to really hand over your whole life to God, is to give up everything altogether. Jesus describes it this way: "whoever gives up family and homes for my sake will be repaid a hundred times, and will have eternal life". Make sure you understand that it doesn't mean you need to instantly become a homeless vagabond preacher, but rather what it means is that you are no longer attached to anything about your life to an extent that will prevent you from cutting it loose if God one day tells you to. What it means is that you become His slave, because He has purchased you. You no longer belong to sin, but you belong to Him, and He will redeem you from the clutches of sin. A slave's master knows that a happy slave is one that serves his master well. So Jesus said "I no longer call you my slaves, but I call you my friends. Because a master does not confide in his slaves". That is the nature of the relationship between God and His people.

So perhaps Josh, what you should consider is how much you really want to live life your own way, and compare it to how much you really believe that God's vision for the whole world is right, and decide then whether you want to serve Him, or whether you want to make the most of life to be what you want it to be. It seems to me that you are quite young, and that you probably haven't been subjected to much temptation yet. I only say this because you haven't yet become committed to God and you haven't yet become hardened toward Him either. So you probably still have a good opportunity to go either way. Though what we should always discourage is having one foot in each camp, because as Jesus described about serving two masters: you will love one and hate the other. If it is God who you end up hating, then your hatred toward Him would be less if you had not sacrificed some of your own desires. The hatred a person develops toward God can actually cause them to act in ways that He resents, and He is the only someone that you can't escape, so you don't want to go that way. But having said that, the other side of the situation is that all I have described to you here is not that well understood, and you already know that lots of people out there take a negatively biased view against God that distracts people from loving Him and living the way that truly is best. So you could actually make a valuable offer to Him, that if He is to reveal to you the secrets of His promises, then you will dedicate your life to promoting this good news.
 
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In response to the person who said he was acting like a child...

So? You can still be an adult and ask basic questions. One time I was seriously taking a survey on some stuff I was going to build and I was asking people what their favorite color was because the winning color (received the most poll votes) would end up being the color of my creation. It may have sounded like I was a child, but the fact is, I was 28 years old. And I never ask basic questions without there being a good reason/purpose behind it.
 
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Dr.J0sh

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Hey Josh, it's as though these two things are really central to this. It is important to know why you want to be Christian, but it is also important to know what being Christian means (what does it require from you, what is it for). You can understand that if you don't have the right view of the second question, then your answer to the first question might be misplaced. So I feel like I should go ahead and describe a bit to you of what being Christian is, what it requires of you, and why. Then when you take that and think about it, as the gravity (size) of the situation dawns on you, then probably you will become motivated to be Christian and nothing will stop you. But then again, we do know that some people are naturally resistant to it that they will prevent the reality from dawning on them. You don't seem to have gone too far that way though.

So you know the story is that God made a bunch of wonderful creatures in His world, some angels and some humans and some animals and plants and things, and He looked on all of this and was pleased with it. Can you imagine the sort of joy that He must have had, as He was watching the butterflies fluttering around the flowers, and the calves leaping in the grass? So something happened eh, because now we have a world where atrocities happen, where so many of His wonderful creatures that should be thrilled and loving life and praising Him for it, hate life and are eager to die, and they despise Him too. Maybe you can imagine how this is heart breaking for Him.

But you know too that some people are not content when they have enough, they always seem to want more of what they like? (That's all of us too btw, if we allow ourselves to become focused on the material life). Have you seen how this results in people taking away from others the things that they need and are naturally designed to have, that makes them content? This is because the civilisation we have established is accustomed to a concept of property ownership and the earning of it.

There's two ways to motivate people, that is by force and by desire. We have a civilisation that is motivated by force. If you want your house painted, you pay someone to do it, and they will do it. Because you have enough money to motivate them to do it, you are able to force them to do it. However, if you don't have enough money to motivate them to do it, you are not able to force them to do it. On the other hand, people often feel good about doing things as they are motivated by love. For an example of this, my friend's computer recently got hacked and she brought it around for me to fix it. I was fully pleased to do it without any expectation of money, because I know that she could not do it herself and I could see that she was suffering without it, and it only took me 2 hours to fix it. Well she didn't have to force me, because I was motivated to do it by my own willing desire. Also, a sort of a surprise is that she brought around a bag of chicken food for my chooks, because she has found it is popular among her customers and she thought my chooks might quite like it. But keep in mind, the whole world normally operates in a coercive manner, whereby people aren't motivated by what they are doing for someone else's sake, but they are only motivated if it is going to satisfy their own needs.

If you begin to look into the idea of Christianity in terms of setting up a world where life never ends, you find that this is really at the very centre of it. You can see in Matthew 25:34-36 and Matthew 25:41-43, that those who are selected for everlasting life are the very ones who care about others, who actually provide for others the things they need, that is not contingent on recompense. From this we can imagine a society in heaven where everyone actually cares about each other and is always motivated for the other's concerns. This is a supportive, nurturing, loving society where nobody should be discontent. If you look at Luke 6:30, you can see that the resurrected world will be like this. Jesus lived that way too, see Matthew 21:1-3 and Mark 14:13-15 for examples.

The vision that God had to bring this about, and that He promised to Abraham too, is that through his offspring, the world would come to know Him and worship Him. This was promised to Abraham because of his faith, which is the type of faith that is the very nature as we are describing. If you know the story of the test to sacrifice his son Isaac, you can see that Isaac was very special to Abraham, as being a 100 year old man with a 90 year old wife, and Isaac being his only son, we can easily imagine that probably there is nothing else in his life that he would want more than his own son. Yet, he did choose faithfully to forego his own desire so that he would do what God required of him.

Make sure you understand that, because it is what Christianity requires.

We do know that God sometimes requires us to forego our own desires, and that often it is difficult to do so. We can observe too, that whenever He does this, it is for a good cause. We are never expected to suffer our own desires for a no-good reason. Consider this in context of Jesus Christ's own life. Take for example His 40 day fast in the desert. He was tempted to turn stones to bread, and He was tempted to take the easy route to rule. Later on too, He was tempted by the religious leaders to perform for them, yet He chose to do what God required of Him, which we can sort of imagine was extremely costly, but probably we can not really absorb the fullness of. For some examples: He became sin so that we can live - that is to say, He allowed Himself to be tried and found guilty of blasphemy, and was executed as a criminal without defending Himself, even though He could rightfully have justified Himself and forced the world to surrender. He has allowed the world to continue in darkness for two thousand years, whereby people do the most atrocious things that I don't want to imagine. They mock and taunt God, they persecute, torture and kill the ones He loves, the ones who challenge their sinful ways. They cultivate a culture to confuse people such as yourself to follow them, whereas under ideal conditions you would be rejoicing and praising Him. This is not to mention too the personal humiliation that He has suffered as He has allowed the world to indulge in all such disbelief. So I have thought about this a bit and have been able to imagine that the temptations expressed in Matthew 16:22-23 and Matthew 26:53 are far beyond our imaginations' ability to comprehend. This all goes to emphasise why Jesus' perseverance right to the end has proven that the human can overcome sin, so that He is satisfied that we can truly be entrusted again with the tree of life, and this is why it is said about Jesus, that every knee shall bow to Him, and every tongue shall confess that He is The Lord.

So what that means for us, anyone who loves life so much that they really do want for it to never end, is that we too need to be prepared to live in such a way. We need to please God with our lives. We need to make life good for those who we share the world with, and not destroy their natural, God-given right to love life and to praise Him. In order to do this, we need to know about ourselves, the limitations of our own gratification. It is natural to have desires, because some things are simply pleasant to us. But we need to know of ourselves, the extent at which our desires begin to influence us to behave in a way that displeases God, or that makes life less pleasant for those we share the world with.

I have been considering a lot lately, the description of the seven deadly sins, which probably you are surprised I have only recently learned. Well, on the Wikipedia page, it describes how these sins have been identified as the ones that can cause a loss of "grace" and "charity". Both grace and charity are requirements of our character for others to be pleased to have us in their life. Grace is the pleasant, soft, kind, warm treatment (regard) for each other, that makes us someone who people like to know. On the other hand, someone who is not graceful is rude, harsh, unkind etc and usually makes us want to get rid of them. Charity is the one that is described in Matthew 25 as whereby if someone needs, we share. The opposite of this is to hoard. For an example of this, if we are sharing lunch with someone and they have only enough for a coffee and a cookie, and we have enough for a meal, the sin of "gluttony" might cause us to be uncharitable, where we might not share our meal with them. This in turn might cause them to "envy" us, which too is a sin, and that can cause them to be disgraceful toward us and uncharitable. Whereas on the other hand, if we are to sacrifice our own desire, we would overcome the sin of gluttony and we would be able to exercise charitably to share our meal with them. The other ones are Lust, Pride, Wrath, Envy, Sloth, Gluttony, Greed.

So to be a Christian is to realise that life is not all for us alone, but it is for everyone. So we are called to shift out of the status-quo of the world, which is to use every day to do as much as we can for our own pleasure. Instead what a Christian comes to realise, is that this life is temporary, it is passing away, but when the end comes, we are called to stand before God and to give an account of our life. At this time, if we are standing comfortably with Him, there can be a mutual agreement to have life forever. A Christian fixes that as their target, they learn about what God wants from them and they pay attention to the lessons He gives them in life, as they encounter situations and reflect upon the way they acted. When a Christian perceives that God is teaching them of some error in their nature, they recognise their error and accept that they must change. That is what "repentance" describes, and it is something that we can expect for the rest of our life, and probably in the one hereafter.

Jesus said that no person can serve two masters, because he will end up loving one and hating the other. This goes to describe that if there is anything that we are attached to that is causing us to commit any of those seven deadly sins, then it is contrary to what God wants, and it is therefore sin for us. But it is not to say that everyone struggles in the same way. For an example of this, take the sin of Lust. The effect of Lust is not that we aren't allowed to look at human beauty, but rather that when we commit the sin of Lust, we are actually degrading the person from being regarded in our view as someone to be honoured, to being regarded in our view as a thing to give us pleasure. What naturally causes, is a lesser amount of grace toward that person. Yet, it doesn't mean to say that we can't look at human beauty and admire it, but that we should keep our mind pure so that the sin does not cause a death of spiritual countenance.

So if you are considering to be a Christian, this is what it means: it is literally the choosing to forego your own love of life in order to give everyone else a life that they love. And this would please God. And then to go the full measure in this, to really hand over your whole life to God, is to give up everything altogether. Jesus describes it this way: "whoever gives up family and homes for my sake will be repaid a hundred times, and will have eternal life". Make sure you understand that it doesn't mean you need to instantly become a homeless vagabond preacher, but rather what it means is that you are no longer attached to anything about your life to an extent that will prevent you from cutting it loose if God one day tells you to. What it means is that you become His slave, because He has purchased you. You no longer belong to sin, but you belong to Him, and He will redeem you from the clutches of sin. A slave's master knows that a happy slave is one that serves his master well. So Jesus said "I no longer call you my slaves, but I call you my friends. Because a master does not confide in his slaves". That is the nature of the relationship between God and His people.

So perhaps Josh, what you should consider is how much you really want to live life your own way, and compare it to how much you really believe that God's vision for the whole world is right, and decide then whether you want to serve Him, or whether you want to make the most of life to be what you want it to be. It seems to me that you are quite young, and that you probably haven't been subjected to much temptation yet. I only say this because you haven't yet become committed to God and you haven't yet become hardened toward Him either. So you probably still have a good opportunity to go either way. Though what we should always discourage is having one foot in each camp, because as Jesus described about serving two masters: you will love one and hate the other. If it is God who you end up hating, then your hatred toward Him would be less if you had not sacrificed some of your own desires. The hatred a person develops toward God can actually cause them to act in ways that He resents, and He is the only someone that you can't escape, so you don't want to go that way. But having said that, the other side of the situation is that all I have described to you here is not that well understood, and you already know that lots of people out there take a negatively biased view against God that distracts people from loving Him and living the way that truly is best. So you could actually make a valuable offer to Him, that if He is to reveal to you the secrets of His promises, then you will dedicate your life to promoting this good news.

Holy if I could curse on this I would lol not in a bad way but like ya know. Just dang that is just no way to describe how much info that is. I saw that and at first I was like alright, lol. Then little into I'm like should be half way but little did I know of how much info you truly posted xD. Man where do I begin like wow haha... Alrigh so what I got from this was like there is two driving forces in the world. Desire and force and like most things we are forced to but sometime we do them because we want to. So like a Christian is good because they usually are more desirous or something lol to help others. Or is that like a good trait that a Christian should have idk man lol. And that although we may not desire something we should still do it because it is needed or better for us idk... My mind is done after all that haha... But yoo the seven deadly sins. What I got was that sins are more like losing of purity and stuff and so it is only bad when like you do somethin in a wrong way? I don't wanna hate god or something i just don't wanna go to hell. But you don't believe in hell I think. Idk I just hate this world I guess it's just depressing ya know like yeah. And like Id to live forever but that ain't gonna happen I'm gonna die and be gone... Sorry for rambling. But like Ain't there a sin that like if you do it you can never be forgiven. Like the unforgivable sin idk. Isn't like blaspheming against impossible to be forgiven. Idk but like i did that sin a while back and now I'm kinda scared. Maybe god never will forgiven me and I'm doomed to go to hell :/.
 
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oi_antz

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Holy if I could curse on this I would lol not in a bad way but like ya know. Just dang that is just no way to describe how much info that is. I saw that and at first I was like alright, lol. Then little into I'm like should be half way but little did I know of how much info you truly posted xD. Man where do I begin like wow haha... Alrigh so what I got from this was like there is two driving forces in the world. Desire and force and like most things we are forced to but sometime we do them because we want to. So like a Christian is good because they usually are more desirous or something lol to help others. Or is that like a good trait that a Christian should have idk man lol. And that although we may not desire something we should still do it because it is needed or better for us idk... My mind is done after all that haha... But yoo the seven deadly sins. What I got was that sins are more like losing of purity and stuff and so it is only bad when like you do somethin in a wrong way? I don't wanna hate god or something i just don't wanna go to hell. But you don't believe in hell I think. Idk I just hate this world I guess it's just depressing ya know like yeah. And like Id to live forever but that ain't gonna happen I'm gonna die and be gone... Sorry for rambling. But like Ain't there a sin that like if you do it you can never be forgiven. Like the unforgivable sin idk. Isn't like blaspheming against impossible to be forgiven. Idk but like i did that sin a while back and now I'm kinda scared. Maybe god never will forgiven me and I'm doomed to go to hell :/.
Hi Josh, no probably it required more patience than you could afford, but what I was describing is that if you need someone's help with anything, either they will do it because you can force them to do it (using money or legal coercion or blackmail or whatever it takes to make them do what you want), or they can choose to do it willingly because they actually want to do it. This is the contrast of the world vs Christianity. In the world we have, we expect people to do it for us because we pay them to do it, whereas in the world that Jesus rules, people will give even the shirt off their back.

You should look into the Wikipedia descriptions of sin according to the Catholic church, it's quite interesting. Probably it should take you about half an hour, but you would understand why sin destroys our spiritual life, and how repentance can restore it, and this would be valuable information to have even if you aren't Christian officially, just so you can be aware of the way that sin in your life is impacting your nature: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal_sin

.. See even if you can't accept the eternal consequences described here according to Catholic belief, what you can see as a universal concept across people of all faiths, is that their energies being focused on controlling these sins in their life has an impact on their nature toward others (grace and charity). Haven't you encountered sales people who are so obviously fixed on getting money out of you, that they have no grace or charity? I have. It is clear that they are interested in their own greedy pursuits instead of my own interests, although their entire sales pitch is based on selling me a service that I need. When they offer an upgrade or a discount, it is because they know that they can't get from me the target they first aimed for, and they are appealing to my own sense of greed by saying that I can have more value for less cost. It's all calculated, de-humanising, unloving, material, self-gratifying activities, and all it does is makes people into resources available for exploit. It's the opposite of godly love.
 
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TheyCallMeDave

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I want to be a Christian but I can't. I would like to believe in god but the thing is I just can't due to certain questions I have in mind. Like the redsea parting, the ark and a few more. I don't know maybe it's because I'm scared of death that I'd like to believe in god. If it matters I was sort of a Christian years ago and well kind of just lost complete faith for reasons.

Why do u have a problem with miracles on earth when God created an entire universe from nothing ? The BIG miracle has already been done and any other miracles are less spectacular albeit truly remarkable . All God did with the Red Sea was to take what was already a segment of nature (running water) and alter it somewhat.

People aren't a sort of CHristian, they either are fully or they are not at all. To make it to heaven, and have your sins forgiven freely, and to realize the true meaning to this life/you life....you have to become a Full CHristian in Gods eyes and that means a complete surrender of your will and authority. Its something that a good many people don't want to do which is why Jesus said 'the way to heaven is thru the narrow road and gate which few find' . I hope you will choose this way . Regards., Dave.
 
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ToBeLoved

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No man, The way I really see it, Jesus read the Old Testament, he said he not only came to enforce it but to Re-enforce it.

Jesus didn't say that.

Jesus said that He came to fulfill the Law. Jesus brought the New Covenant, not to enforce and re-enforce Old Testament and Old Covenant ideologies.
 
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RLBeers

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Josh. It comes down to this, God is infinite in every meaning of that word, including his patience and his love and forgiveness. There is a movie called The Encounter you may want to check out, but as for salvation, it is as easy as asking for a glass of water. Simply speak to Jesus as if He was standing there, tell him you want to be saved. He will take it from there.
 
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Steven Wood

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Jesus didn't say that.

Jesus said that He came to fulfill the Law. Jesus brought the New Covenant, not to enforce and re-enforce Old Testament and Old Covenant ideologies.
When I say re-enforce I take that from Matthew chapter 5 when he talks of the law. When he speaks clearly of not only the physical sin that the Old testament law bound us to but the spiritual sin that the New covenant brought. I apologize for not wording it correctly.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Well yeah I'm a sinner I guess. It just that I don't understand like why. Can't you be a good person without god?

We all need God because we are all sinners. In the beginning God created man in His own image...holy. Satan tempted Adam and Eve and they obeyed him and fell into sin...the fall of man. Mankind then was spiritually dead, destined to hell. God then cursed Satan and promised a Savior to Adam and Eve. (Genesis 3:) God went on to pronounce curses on Adam and Eve. Eve up until the fall was named simply woman...after the fall Adam renamed the woman Eve, Scripture states because she would be the mother of all the living. All mankind therefore carry around the original sin of Eve and are spiritually dead by nature.

God was faithful to His promise of a Savior and did send Jesus so that all who call upon Him will be saved.
It is only that we are sinful and live in a sin cursed world that makes us view ourselves as not so sinful or a good person. Also, we are here b/c God put us here...everything exists and works because of God so we should try to get to know Him through the Word He gives us and see what His good and perfect will for us is.
 
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