I used to feel the same urgent Apocalyptic CERTAINTY some here feel

[eclipsenow]

Life will be pretty much normal at the time of two major events: (1) the rapture/resurrection (2) the Antichrist going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood, triggering the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

How do you define generation, and when did it start?

Destruction of this current heaven and earth is not until after Jesus returns and His thousand year reign on this present earth from Jerusalem, commencing at the point of His return, are over.

The millennium is a snapshot of the souls of the martyrs in heaven, given the context of the 'thrones' that we saw in Revelation 4

 

[eclipsenow]

Can you now prove that Jesus was born, baptized, died on the Cross, was buried and rose again all on the same day?

That is what you did with the Second Coming compacting it down to one point in time.

It's what the texts above say about Judgement Day - not his death and resurrection. It's a little tricky because many - especially in America - are living with generations of cultural baggage from the Schofield bible. But if you try and really read the verses I have listed above and see how they cannot be plucked out as different events - you'll see the wholistic, universal, inescapable, unstoppable, final, eternal Judgement Day of the Amils. And then where does that leave the millennium?

 

[Douggg]

How do you define generation, and when did it start?

Based on Psalms 90:10, a generation is 70 to 80 years.

Started in 1967 when Jerusalem came back into the hands of the Jews.

 

[Douggg]

The millennium is a snapshot of the souls of the martyrs in heaven, given the context of the 'thrones' that we saw in Revelation 4

The generational timing of the resurrection/rapture event cannot be determine from Revelation. It can determined from the parable of the fig tree though.

 

[keras]

The 'generation' Jesus refers to in Matthew 24:34, is the people alive when the 'fig tree' is revived. That is; when Judah becomes a nation again.
Which was in May 1948.
So within the lifetime of anyone born on, before or after that date; it is possible they will be alive when the end time events take place and Jesus Returns to commence His Millennium reign.

This is proved by how none of the end time prophesies, from Revelation 6:11 to the end, have happened yet. [ Except Rev 12:1-5]
Also by the present untenable state of the world, esp the Middle East.

 

[Douggg]

The 'generation' Jesus refers to in Matthew 24:34, is the people alive when the 'fig tree' is revived. That is; when Judah becomes a nation again.
Which was in May 1948.
So within the lifetime of anyone born on, before or after that date; it is possible they will be alive when the end time events take place and Jesus Returns to commence His Millennium reign.

This is proved by how none of the end time prophesies, from Revelation 6:11 to the end, have happened yet. [ Except Rev 12:1-5]
Also by the present untenable state of the world, esp the Middle East.

1948 + 80 years = 2028. I don't think that combination works out because taking 7 years for the 70th week of Daniel 9:27 into account would put the beginning of the 7 years by the end of 2021. Very unlikely.

1967 +70 years = 2037. minus the 7 years would be by the end of 2030. Still possible.

__________________________________________________________

I think the best thing you came up with is the 7000 year concept.

From Adam to Jesus - 4000 years.

From Jesus to the Second Coming - 2000 years

Jesus's death and resurrection at age 33 would be 2000 years + 33 years = 2033.

2033 minus 7 years would be 2026 that the 7 year 70th week would begin. Assuming we are still around at that time, we will see how it turns out.

In my view, next up, I expect to see changes to the EU structure of government to there being one clear cut leader. Right now there are three presidents in the EU government structure. It may be that when the little horn comes to power he eliminates that three presidents system. i.e the three kings uprooted in Daniel 7. Having the endorsement of the ten kings to do so. Who those ten kings are is also not clear cut at this time.

 

[keras]

I think the best thing you came up with is the 7000 year cycle concept.

From Adam to Jesus - 4000 years.

From Jesus to the Second Coming - 2000 years

Jesus's death and resurrection at age 33 would be 2000 years + 33 years = 2033.

It seems to me ; you would fail 3rd grade math.
Jesus was born before 1 AD. It is the date of His acclamation as King of the Jews and His subsequent death, in 30 AD which ties to our calendar.

It also seems that you have a fixation about the European Union.
It is irrelevant to end times Prophecy, the Middle East is the focal point of God's plans.
And unless you want the curses of Rev 22:18-19 upon your head, the next prophesied event will be the Sixth Seal.

 

[Douggg]

It seems to me ; you would fail 3rd grade math.
Jesus was born before 1 AD. It is the date of His acclamation as King of the Jews and His subsequent death, in 30 AD which ties to our calendar.

It also seems that you have a fixation about the European Union.
It is irrelevant to end times Prophecy, the Middle East is the focal point of God's plans.
And unless you want the curses of Rev 22:18-19 upon your head, the next prophesied event will be the Sixth Seal.

We will see who is right and who is wrong regarding what's next.

 

[eclipsenow]

Based on Psalms 90:10, a generation is 70 to 80 years.

Started in 1967 when Jerusalem came back into the hands of the Jews.

What about 30 to 40 years?

So, when we read “generation” in the Bible, we have to consider the context. Usually, a generation in the Bible is roughly thirty years long or the people living during that time, the same as what we understand a generation to be in everyday talk. But there are times when generation is used poetically to refer to a class of people demarked by something other than age.
How long is a generation in the Bible? | GotQuestions.org​

 

[eclipsenow]

1948 + 80 years = 2028. I don't think that combination works out because taking 7 years for the 70th week of Daniel 9:27 into account would put the beginning of the 7 years by the end of 2021. Very unlikely.

1967 +70 years = 2037. minus the 7 years would be by the end of 2030. Still possible.

__________________________________________________________

I think the best thing you came up with is the 7000 year concept.

From Adam to Jesus - 4000 years.

From Jesus to the Second Coming - 2000 years

Jesus's death and resurrection at age 33 would be 2000 years + 33 years = 2033.

2033 minus 7 years would be 2026 that the 7 year 70th week would begin. Assuming we are still around at that time, we will see how it turns out.

In my view, next up, I expect to see changes to the EU structure of government to there being one clear cut leader. Right now there are three presidents in the EU government structure. It may be that when the little horn comes to power he eliminates that three presidents system. i.e the three kings uprooted in Daniel 7. Having the endorsement of the ten kings to do so. Who those ten kings are is also not clear cut at this time.

I also hope that the EU changes and streamlines and becomes a stronger, more streamlined FEDERATION than the Confederation of Federations that it is. It's a bit of a clunky mess, and I think Europe has a lot to offer the world and would hate to see more Brexit's. Maybe, in God's mercy, the EU will survive and bring more peace as it already has since its formation and not let Europe degenerate into a WW3.

See, one has to plan for the future but be prepared for the Lord tonight - because we honestly don't know and CANNOT know when he'll return.

 

[Timtofly]

It's what the texts above say about Judgement Day - not his death and resurrection. It's a little tricky because many - especially in America - are living with generations of cultural baggage from the Schofield bible. But if you try and really read the verses I have listed above and see how they cannot be plucked out as different events - you'll see the wholistic, universal, inescapable, unstoppable, final, eternal Judgement Day of the Amils. And then where does that leave the millennium?

Obviously amil have cut out the Millennium, although some apply it to the here and now, where it does not fit. Still, you are compacting several events down into one. Clearly the Second Coming cannot be compacted down, just like the first coming cannot be compacted down into one moment of time.

 

[Timtofly]

1948 + 80 years = 2028. I don't think that combination works out because taking 7 years for the 70th week of Daniel 9:27 into account would put the beginning of the 7 years by the end of 2021. Very unlikely.

1967 +70 years = 2037. minus the 7 years would be by the end of 2030. Still possible.

__________________________________________________________

I think the best thing you came up with is the 7000 year concept.

From Adam to Jesus - 4000 years.

From Jesus to the Second Coming - 2000 years

Jesus's death and resurrection at age 33 would be 2000 years + 33 years = 2033.

2033 minus 7 years would be 2026 that the 7 year 70th week would begin. Assuming we are still around at that time, we will see how it turns out.

In my view, next up, I expect to see changes to the EU structure of government to there being one clear cut leader. Right now there are three presidents in the EU government structure. It may be that when the little horn comes to power he eliminates that three presidents system. i.e the three kings uprooted in Daniel 7. Having the endorsement of the ten kings to do so. Who those ten kings are is also not clear cut at this time.

The point is not a specific amount of time. The point is a few will still be alive. It could have happened in 1958, all would have been alive, all would have had their souls harvested.

There is no guarantee of a decade or 7 years. The only time frame John gives is 1260 days, and 42 months, and the 2 witnesses happen at the same time as the 42 months. Some from 1948 will still be alive to witness the Second Coming is the point.

 

[parousia70]

Jesus's return relative to other end times events is known. What calendar date or specific year is not known. But the generation to not pass away is known - and we are living in it.

The apostles declared the exact same thing.

You can't both be correct.

When faced which choosing which of you is correct when making this exact same statement, the Divinely inspired, infallible, 1st century, apostolic declaration, or the non inspired, fallible, 21st century, random internet guy's declaration, my money is on the apostles being right and the random internet guy being wrong.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The church will not be on the earth. Why claim I said that?

You said Jesus would be on the earth. Why wouldn't the church be where He is?

So you do not think 2 Peter 3 will be the literal baptism of fire at the Second Coming?

I'm not sure what you mean by "baptism of fire, but I believe the heavens and earth will be literally burned up at His second coming as 2 Peter 3:10-12 indicates.

 

[eclipsenow]

There is no guarantee of a decade or 7 years. The only time frame John gives is 1260 days, and 42 months, and the 2 witnesses happen at the same time as the 42 months. Some from 1948 will still be alive to witness the Second Coming is the point.

A simple category mistake is why you think Amils have 'compacted down' Judgement Day. The verses I've quoted above still stand - the only thing that seems to get in the way is you reading Daniel prophecies overlaid on top of Olivet discussions about the end of that temple in 70AD - and the ever persistent error of reading Revelation literally. It's literary, not literal. It's a symbolic sermon, not a timeline. It's thematic, not linear.

Reading it properly will free modern Christians from the endless fretting over which credit card or computer chip might be the 'mark of the beast'. It will stop them being distracted by endless speculation over geopolitical matters and how they fit into a 'Revelation timetable'. Instead they'll find that as their timetables for the 'Last Days' get smaller, the gospel itself gets bigger and bolder. They'll live for Christ's mission more, and their own navel-gazing less. They'll be less prone to every wind of the latest tinfoil hat conspiracy theory. They'll be more realistic about life, wiser in their planning, and encouraging to all.

 

[eclipsenow]

I'm not sure what you mean by "baptism of fire, but I believe the heavens and earth will be literally burned up at His second coming as 2 Peter 3:10-12 indicates.

Yes - I agree - I just wanted to ask what you think about that day in regards to the new heaven and new earth. See, I'm wondering if the language of fire and melting is specifically about the universal, inescapable Judgement that is coming - not so much what will happen to this actual universe?

A little background before two more questions: we know God made it all and declared it good 6 times then VERY good on the 7th repetition - when it was complete. We read of God owning all creation in the Psalms - of his awareness of and influence over every part of it - his intimate care for it. We also see that when Jesus rose, it wasn't just hope for humanity in his physical resurrection - but hope for all creation itself. A physical body - made eternal.

Q1: I'm wondering what you make of the New Jerusalem? I see two possibilities - that Revelation 21 says the New Jerusalem has the very neat and symbolic 12,000 stadia in length which itself seems like a very theological number. But also the length and breadth of such a city seems to span the boundaries of the known Roman Empire back then.

Q2: I'm wondering if you think there's continuity between this world and the next, just as there was between Jesus earthly body and his eternal one? Like, will the laws of physics somehow be eternal - with entropy continually 'topped up' so the universe doesn't run down?

Aside that might not be relevant to the eschatology forum: Finally - this has triggered more on an apologetics question I've been wondering about - are you a Creationist or Theistic Evolutionist? If TE - which I am - I'm wondering what you make of entropy? Was that something God was going to take care of if we didn't fall - or something God left in the design because he knew we would fall? It's like the whole universe is a clock wound up but is now winding down. Barring Judgment Day - it would take 100 trillion years before the stars go out and vastly longer for all the black holes to evaporate - but eventually nothing would be left. What do you make of that - given the promise to the first humans was eternal life?

 

[Timtofly]

You said Jesus would be on the earth. Why wouldn't the church be where He is?

I'm not sure what you mean by "baptism of fire, but I believe the heavens and earth will be literally burned up at His second coming as 2 Peter 3:10-12 indicates.

The same reason those in Abraham's bosom were not resurrected to be witnesses for the 3.5 years between Jesus' baptism and the Cross. The same reason those in Abraham's bosom have not been resurrected to reign on the earth among humans for the last 1991 years. The NT church was only to gather a harvest between the Cross and the Second Coming. Not to work along side of Christ, the angels, and the sealed literal 144k during the Trumpets and Thunders.

It does not say the earth is burned up but the works are burned up leaving the earth a barren wasteland. Even you claim the earth is still here. The heavens and earth do not dissappear until Christ has handed back, not burned up, to God. Jesus does not surrender a charred earth. After 1000 years of iron rule, the earth is handed back as perfect.

 

[eclipsenow]

The same reason those in Abraham's bosom were not resurrected to be witnesses for the 3.5 years between Jesus' baptism and the Cross. The same reason those in Abraham's bosom have not been resurrected to reign on the earth among humans for the last 1991 years. The NT church was only to gather a harvest between the Cross and the Second Coming. Not to work along side of Christ, the angels, and the sealed literal 144k during the Trumpets and Thunders.

So you'll read the clearly symbolic as literal...

It does not say the earth is burned up but the works are burned up leaving the earth a barren wasteland.

...and the clearer - more literal writing - as symbolic....

Even you claim the earth is still here. The heavens and earth do not dissappear until Christ has handed back, not burned up, to God. Jesus does not surrender a charred earth. After 1000 years of iron rule, the earth is handed back as perfect.

....to wrangle your end times table into the clearer parts of scripture. How interesting.

 

[Timtofly]

A simple category mistake is why you think Amils have 'compacted down' Judgement Day. The verses I've quoted above still stand - the only thing that seems to get in the way is you reading Daniel prophecies overlaid on top of Olivet discussions about the end of that temple in 70AD - and the ever persistent error of reading Revelation literally. It's literary, not literal. It's a symbolic sermon, not a timeline. It's thematic, not linear.

Reading it properly will free modern Christians from the endless fretting over which credit card or computer chip might be the 'mark of the beast'. It will stop them being distracted by endless speculation over geopolitical matters and how they fit into a 'Revelation timetable'. Instead they'll find that as their timetables for the 'Last Days' get smaller, the gospel itself gets bigger and bolder. They'll live for Christ's mission more, and their own navel-gazing less. They'll be less prone to every wind of the latest tinfoil hat conspiracy theory. They'll be more realistic about life, wiser in their planning, and encouraging to all.

Just going by the OD. Jesus is not going to set up His Glorious throne per the OD?

 

[Timtofly]

So you'll read the clearly symbolic as literal...


...and the clearer - more literal writing - as symbolic....



....to wrangle your end times table into the clearer parts of scripture. How interesting.

So the first coming was symbolic? Not literal so never happened?

You could be less vague on what you are excusing as mere symbolism.

If not a literal dissolving of the heavens and the works on the earth, what actually comes to an end?