I think there is a big difference

[visionary]

Of course he does, but your question is loaded. You are judging the observance of the law by a standard that you have decided works for you. This has been flogged to death on this forum but at the end of the day, if a person is following the law as they understand it applies to them, you really can't judge them- they are another's servant, after all.

Rather than slag off at Jews who aren't "Jewish enough" for you by insinuating that they don't keep the law (which could well be a false assumption) try understanding that no one on this forum or elsewhere keeps all 613 mitzvot, including yourself.

Are we not sick of perpetually discussing the law? It looks to me that this forum has always been rather confused about it.

You should clarify your statement to reflect it is your thoughts as you are not the ambassador to speak on our behalf, thus remove the "we" from your statements so that others reading it will know where this attitude comes from.

 

[ContraMundum]

You should clarify your statement to reflect it is your thoughts as you are not the ambassador to speak on our behalf, thus remove the "we" from your statements so that others reading it will know where this attitude comes from.

No, it makes perfect sense, and I don't need to change to suit you. The "we" is you and I. Are we not sick of the same old tired attempts to slam us Jews into little boxes to make the Gentiles comfortable with us? I know I am sick of it. I've been sick of it for years, actually. I thought you might have picked up on that by now. It's been years, Vis. Years. The same old stuff. Move on. There are actually more interesting topics than slamming Jews into little Jesus shaped boxes to make you comfortable.

Here's the bottom line: it doesn't matter what you or anyone else personally thinks about who is doing what in their religious life- it's a personal choice, and the rather common Christian desire to force others into conformity and agreement of thought and practice is one that doesn't seem to die when one becomes "Messianic", does it? Rather, it amplifies. Now one gets to judge people on their conformity to one's personal understanding of the law, and the main target of such judgement is of course the Jews. To the Jewish observer like myself, it just looks like many on this forum are still quite confused by the law and the presence of Jews, both in and out of "Messiah". I say relax and let us live according to our conscience, and stop shoving us into boxes. It's hard enough without our "brethren" constantly nit-picking at us.

 

[yedida]

I agree. It's gotten to the point of ridiculousness.
I will stop those that come in with the lame "Torah has been nailed to the cross, it ain't for gentiles" short in their tracks. No, Torah is for all God's family. It's not an option. But once someone has picked it up and begun walking it out, how they do that is none of my business. It's between them and Hashem. (For that matter, even if they choose not to walk it out, is none of my business - just can't let the "nailed to the cross" thing stand unchallenged, that's all.)
Do they want to celebrate Christmas, Easter, Hallowween? None of my business. And all the arguments have grown old and weary.

 

[visionary]

No, it makes perfect sense, and I don't need to change to suit you. The "we" is you and I. Are we not sick of the same old tired attempts to slam us Jews into little boxes to make the Gentiles comfortable with us? I know I am sick of it. I've been sick of it for years, actually. I thought you might have picked up on that by now. It's been years, Vis. Years. The same old stuff. Move on. There are actually more interesting topics than slamming Jews into little Jesus shaped boxes to make you comfortable.

Here's the bottom line: it doesn't matter what you or anyone else personally thinks about who is doing what in their religious life- it's a personal choice, and the rather common Christian desire to force others into conformity and agreement of thought and practice is one that doesn't seem to die when one becomes "Messianic", does it? Rather, it amplifies. Now one gets to judge people on their conformity to one's personal understanding of the law, and the main target of such judgement is of course the Jews. To the Jewish observer like myself, it just looks like many on this forum are still quite confused by the law and the presence of Jews, both in and out of "Messiah". I say relax and let us live according to our conscience, and stop shoving us into boxes. It's hard enough without our "brethren" constantly nit-picking at us.

Who is talking about Jews in a box. God's Law is not nitpiking, it is the criteria for living in His kingdom, Jew or Gentile.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

So then what is it about Yeshua's death that the Jew must believe on? Is it for redemption reasons? Yeshua was a first century Jew who followed Torah. Why shouldn't the Jew just follow his example by being Torah observant?

The example should be followed.

 

[ContraMundum]

I agree. It's gotten to the point of ridiculousness.
I will stop those that come in with the lame "Torah has been nailed to the cross, it ain't for gentiles" short in their tracks. No, Torah is for all God's family. It's not an option. But once someone has picked it up and begun walking it out, how they do that is none of my business. It's between them and Hashem. (For that matter, even if they choose not to walk it out, is none of my business - just can't let the "nailed to the cross" thing stand unchallenged, that's all.)
Do they want to celebrate Christmas, Easter, Hallowween? None of my business. And all the arguments have grown old and weary.

Well said.

 

[MessianicMommy]

I agree. It's gotten to the point of ridiculousness.
I will stop those that come in with the lame "Torah has been nailed to the cross, it ain't for gentiles" short in their tracks. No, Torah is for all God's family. It's not an option. But once someone has picked it up and begun walking it out, how they do that is none of my business. It's between them and Hashem. (For that matter, even if they choose not to walk it out, is none of my business - just can't let the "nailed to the cross" thing stand unchallenged, that's all.)
Do they want to celebrate Christmas, Easter, Hallowween? None of my business. And all the arguments have grown old and weary.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

To the Jewish observer like myself, it just looks like many on this forum are still quite confused by the law and the presence of Jews, both in and out of "Messiah". I say relax and let us live according to our conscience, and stop shoving us into boxes. It's hard enough without our "brethren" constantly nit-picking at us.

Indeed...