I think I've given up on Christains

[radhead]

At some point you should realize that church is not there just for us to take from. Someone has to give first. We are all supposed to give.

I know that churches are full of hypocrites. Some even worse than myself. It doesn't stop me from going. I thank God for these "hypocrites" who form the church.

Small groups are a must for any Christian. (Thanks to the person who brought up this point.) It's important to have people in your life who know of your struggles who are always praying for you.

 

[CoachR64]

The church is the body of believers in Christ. If you feel that God is calling you away from your present place of worship, then listen.

A "church" serves many purposes. One of which is fellowship with other believers.

I also think Rad has an excellent point. Part of being a member of the Church, or the body of Christ, is doing your part. You can not be dependent on the other parts to serve you and never give in return.

I think a lot of churches today are declining because there are too many people wanting to be served and very few servants.

For me, the times I felt the most blessed and fulfilled by my church was when I was serving others.

Coach

 

[intricatic]

You just need to find a good Church. I think we've all experienced that kind of thing, to some extent.


(This coming from the guy who has yet to find a decent Church, after 4 years of searching)...

They're out there, it's just a matter of finding them.

 

[charlie_hunter]

there's a reason i dont go to church!!!

if i did i'd doubt i'd still be a christian.

Great if you can find a good church, but rare. find some great christian mates and stick close.

 

[RosaVernal]

I've been to enough churches to realize that most of the people there are, well, people. And sadly, this means they're going to be and do all of the stupid things people do, but they'll hide it behind their "faith".

They've already got their rewards.

 

[SonicBOOM]

I've been to enough churches to realize that most of the people there are, well, people. And sadly, this means they're going to be and do all of the stupid things people do, but they'll hide it behind their "faith".

They've already got their rewards.

I've never liked this answer because there should be something that seperates Christains from the rest of the world. I know people are people..... but even in that I expect a little more from Christains. Todd Agnew laments in one of his songs that "if we are God's children, than why do we look so much like the world". Christains shouldn't use the "i'm imperfect and only human" response as an excuse, Jesus said you would reconize them by their fruits and that you don't pick figs from thorn bushes. As for additude I'd say most Christains are by far worse off than the world. I find unbeleivers more Christlike than most Christains are...... now there's something seriously wrong with that.

 

[intricatic]

I've been to enough churches to realize that most of the people there are, well, people. And sadly, this means they're going to be and do all of the stupid things people do, but they'll hide it behind their "faith".

They've already got their rewards.

Hey, you and I are people too, I hope.

 

[intricatic]

I've never liked this answer because there should be something that seperates Christains from the rest of the world. I know people are people..... but even in that I expect a little more from Christains. Todd Agnew laments in one of his songs that "if we are God's children, than why do we look so much like the world". Christains shouldn't use the "i'm imperfect and only human" response as an excuse, Jesus said you would reconize them by their fruits and that you don't pick figs from thorn bushes. As for additude I'd say most Christains are by far worse off than the world. I find unbeleivers more Christlike than most Christains are...... now there's something seriously wrong with that.

Isn't that kind of the point? Look at the apostles; each and every one of them did something dreadfully wrong to Christ, or acted like an idiot, or said something incredibly stupid, at some point in His ministry. Yet He still died for their salvation. If you aren't human, you have no need of Grace. That doesn't change after salvation, either. We need Grace each and every day of our lives.

 

[SonicBOOM]

Isn't that kind of the point? Look at the apostles; each and every one of them did something dreadfully wrong to Christ, or acted like an idiot, or said something incredibly stupid, at some point in His ministry. Yet He still died for their salvation. If you aren't human, you have no need of Grace. That doesn't change after salvation, either. We need Grace each and every day of our lives.

well as much as I agree that God works perfectly among our weaknesses. I still say that if your not moving up, your going down. Or as Christ said "anyone who doesn't gather with me, scatters". I still say that there needs to be some sort of diffrence in the human that Christ redeems. Now I'm not saying that Christains are perfect, but if your not moving forward, your going backwards. If your not gathering, your scattering. The point isn't instant perfection, the point is progress. Besides Paul says we're free from the tiranny of sin, sin should no longer have dommionion in the beleiver.

 

[Johnnz]

Two perspectives. C S Lewis & Tolkien understood a vital point. Their 'heroes' were not at all like supermen, no Brice Willis look alikes. God can use very ordinary people in extraordinary ways.

The biblical message has become too narrow. We have been given a sin/saviour paradigm that makes many inward looking, often feeling guilty and unworthy, and with little vision of life and society beyond getting other's saved.

The message of the Kingdom of God is far more exciting and all encompassing that that simple message. A mediocre message will not produce radically changed people.

John
NZ

 

[intricatic]

well as much as I agree that God works perfectly among our weaknesses. I still say that if your not moving up, your going down. Or as Christ said "anyone who doesn't gather with me, scatters". I still say that there needs to be some sort of diffrence in the human that Christ redeems. Now I'm not saying that Christains are perfect, but if your not moving forward, your going backwards. If your not gathering, your scattering. The point isn't instant perfection, the point is progress. Besides Paul says we're free from the tiranny of sin, sin should no longer have dommionion in the beleiver.

That's a dangerous line of reasoning. We will still sin, and we will still find ourselves struggling against that influence, what Paul was saying is that sin has no more power over us. Where man's imperfection is found wanting, Christ's perfect Grace abounds all the more.

The problem isn't that Christians should be following in the steps of Christ, to their own betterment as people and the strengthening of their own humility, but that those works aren't what matter in the long run. There's a balance to be had between the two; works follow faith, but works without faith are meaningless examples of worldly lawyerism.

 

[GuacaMolly]

well as much as I agree that God works perfectly among our weaknesses. I still say that if your not moving up, your going down. Or as Christ said "anyone who doesn't gather with me, scatters". I still say that there needs to be some sort of diffrence in the human that Christ redeems. Now I'm not saying that Christains are perfect, but if your not moving forward, your going backwards. If your not gathering, your scattering. The point isn't instant perfection, the point is progress. Besides Paul says we're free from the tiranny of sin, sin should no longer have dommionion in the beleiver.

I think you have a good point and some valid frustrations. I guess I always look at things like "Okay, now what can we do to make it better?"

You have the potential to be a catalyst. If you firmly plant yourself in a church that you don't positively hate and are just obedient to God, you just might see a change for the better around you.

I'm going to be frank and tell you that an "I'm not getting what I need from the church, I'm just going to do my own thing" is a pretty selfish attitude. Why? Because there is a body of Christ that is missing out on your positive circle of influence. If every Godly person gets frustrated with church and just doesn't attend, the problem you're speaking of will just get worse and not better.

Unless you're part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Above all, I think you should listen to God's calling in your life as far as where to worship and be fed. But my advice is to pray that he will bring you to that place. One of my most fervent daily prayers I think can apply to almost any situation: God, change what I want. Make my thoughts like your thoughts, make what you want for me the desires of my heart.

All said with sisterly love, of course

 

[SonicBOOM]

Two perspectives. C S Lewis & Tolkien understood a vital point. Their 'heroes' were not at all like supermen, no Brice Willis look alikes. God can use very ordinary people in extraordinary ways.

The biblical message has become too narrow. We have been given a sin/saviour paradigm that makes many inward looking, often feeling guilty and unworthy, and with little vision of life and society beyond getting other's saved.

The message of the Kingdom of God is far more exciting and all encompassing that that simple message. A mediocre message will not produce radically changed people.

John
NZ

I couldn't agree more. Besides Jesus wasn't as concerned with mass evanglism. He seemed more concerned with people's actul hearts, so much so that he made salvation complex and made it so only a few people could enter. In other words his method focased on the people who actully wanted what Christ offered. Jesus told people to

1. Count the cost

2. Leave their old life behind

3. forsake yourself

he said that unless a person did these things than their not fit for the kingdom. Jesus was more concerned about the actul person's life than he was about mass numbers. If Jesus could cut deep into the heart of people, than he didn't care if he reached only a small amount of people.

 

[SonicBOOM]

I'm going to be frank and tell you that an "I'm not getting what I need from the church, I'm just going to do my own thing" is a pretty selfish attitude. Why? Because there is a body of Christ that is missing out on your positive circle of influence. If every Godly person gets frustrated with church and just doesn't attend, the problem you're speaking of will just get worse and not better.

I understand this I guess. I didn't mean to really come off with that additude either way though. i meant it more in the context that I should have a better reason to go rather than I "ought to". But service to other would be a good step twoard humility for me, expecaully service to those whom i seem to have a frusteration with. It might teach me how to wash feet, for a lack of better words. I do understand.... i just gotta think and pray about this.

 

[SonicBOOM]

works follow faith, but works without faith are meaningless examples of worldly lawyerism.

I know..... and the biggest frusteration I have is with people who look at works and not faith, who try to clean the outside of the cup and not the inside. I guess maybe I'm just being a bit pig-headed about this. I wanna preach grace.....

 

[GuacaMolly]

It is certainly disheartening to see the way the average Christain acts. I'm still working on finding a church home myself, and I doubt that I will ever really trust or expect good things and support from a church family again.

 

[intricatic]

I know..... and the biggest frusteration I have is with people who look at works and not faith, who try to clean the outside of the cup and not the inside. I guess maybe I'm just being a bit pig-headed about this. I wanna preach grace.....

Grace comes after the conviction of the law.

 

[SonicBOOM]

It is certainly disheartening to see the way the average Christain acts. I'm still working on finding a church home myself, and I doubt that I will ever really trust or expect good things and support from a church family again.

it is disheartening because you want a church family who will build you up.... but thats like looking for a needle in a haystack. I don't wanna settle down and just "Go to church". I wanna make sure I find the right church and one that will help strengthen me.... now I don't wanna make this one-sided. all i mean by a comment like this is I don't want a church that will tear me down and I don't want a church that will damage my spiritail life. i serve alot and I am a strong beleiver in service. i just wanna go up, not down. And I don't wanna be torn down by people.

 

[BlueMidnight]

If your church is full of idiots or unkind, judgemental, whatever you don't like about them, type people... forgive em, and find a new church. If you stay in environment that makes you feel bad for even bothering to go to church, pretty soon you probably wont care to go at all, and this is not a good thing.

 

[Im_A]

no offense guys... but all of the Christain people I've met [outside of this fourm] were willfully ignorant and pompus beyond beleif. Why isn't there anyone Christlike anymore? I can't STAND going to church because of the thick atmisphere that the additudes of Christain people create. It's all so fake.... no one is allowed to be real and honest so the church is the place you would most expect to find people wearing masks because their afriad of being rejected. I know this grieves our Father in Heaven..... because it disturbs my spirit so greatly. I just don't know anymore. I want Christain support but the only Christain support thats offered is the community/busness/politcs of modern Christainity, which i don't want any part of. When i get married and have kids, I don't want them growing up in the church because I fear they may develop the churches additude! Thats pretty bad! I'm just sick of tired of it all in general.


rant out.

you speak of something that is a huge deal to me, even now, because i'm seriously thinking of going to the Catholic Church here in town tomorrow morning.

i'm the last person to wear a mask. that's not me being egotistical here. masks are lies, and i hate lies, thus people see the raw/blunt end of me a lot, or i just choose to show sides of myself to certain people because there is the side of me that is seen to everyone period, but then there's a side of me that is only shown to the people i trust and care for.

but i'd have to say, don't give up man. just don't give your pearls to swine you know? their out there. one of my buddies that i don't get to talk to too much anymore is a prime of example of the type of Christian i would love to be hang out with and be around for support.

but don't give up. also be understanding too. a lot of those people are unable to accept their issues, and i'm not meaning to diss religion, but religion can be used to hide away from things. its just a fact. i can, and have, hid away from my problems through things taught in Christianity. i didn't do it for bad reasons, i just couldn't help it. here i am a sinner, and i'm told, if i don't stop sinning, or get it taken cared of, i'll never have God in my life. so the things taught by modern Christianity are easily used for purposes of hiding away. why should i worry about the real self, or to show the real deal if i'm a child acceptable by God because of views in my head, since my actions will never be good enough and that i'm saved regardless of anything?

i hope that if i get back into church steadily, that it is hell-bent on the idea of that, faith without works is dead, and thus uses that as an instrument to give support to help strengthen ones faith, to give love that the receiving sides dictates that they needs, not what the giving sides defines is applicable to give. that support is given because of i am a human being, not because i support to keep gay marriage as a no no, or no abortion, or the Republican party(which i don't support any of those things, even tho i have to admit, i'm seriously considering Mcain, but i'm also seriously considering Obama as well, more than Mcain but my dad told me things about him that i like and at least on the abortion side, i don't think i'm a typical pro-choice person.) a church that is more concerned about the life of the believers outside of themselves, and not about preaching their own method of finding salvation and just offer support.

sorry for my own rant man, but i hope it stayed on topic somewhat.