I think I'm unregnerate, reprobate, vessel of wrath, despairing, tried all I can think of

[Chris0699]

Mid 30's. It isn't over until you die. If the Holy Spirit isn't working on you then you wouldn't be on this Christian website searching for answers.
I sat in church for many year listening to the Gospel. One big problem for me was preachers who would say things like "you have to repent & confess all your sins," or you have to make a public confession of Jesus," or "if you really meant business with God when you said that prayer then He saved you," or "you have to promise to serve God for the rest of your life," or "you have to accept Jesus as Lord or He won't be your savior," and so on, and that would have me doubting whether or not I had done all of those things.
God cleared up those doubts when He showed me that He wasn't looking for promises, confessing, sorrow, sincerity, etc from me; no, He removed the blindness from my eyes and allowed me to see that when Jesus died on the cross, shedding His blood there, He did all that God requires for me to be forgiven; all I needed to do was to come to Him with all my sin and receive the pardon that He purchased with His blood.
How did I do that? Well, again, it wasn't anything I did like muster up within myself a great sense of faith, and then beg Him to save me. No, it was God who put within me an overwhelming urge to call out to Jesus. I sensed his presence almost as though He was right there in the room with me. I did not even think about my faith, whether or not it was great faith or weak faith. I did not think about whether or not I really meant business with God, or if I was sincere enough about the matter, I didn't think that I had to confess all my sins, or that I needed to promise Him I would serve Him the rest of my life; all I could think was that He had taken care of my need to have my sin forgiven, and that He was waiting for me to simply come to Him so He could do that for me. By the way, that happened just as I had finished reading John chapters 1-6, especially verse 37 in chapter 6 where Jesus said He would not turn away anyone who comes to Him to receive His forgiveness. One thing I realize about faith is that the weakest faith is saving faith as long as the object of that faith is Jesus' death on the cross & shed blood there for the remission of sin.
Hey, sorry for such long posts; I can't help myself sometimes.
John

John, would you be willing to pray that Diana and I get the urge like you got, or whatever we need to understand? Thank you.

 

[ldonjohn]

John, would you be willing to pray that Diana and I get the urge like you got, or whatever we need to understand? Thank you.

Yes, I am praying for both of you. Actually just a few minutes ago I said a prayer for you and I will again before this night is over. Also, I am asking the Lord to show me how to be even a better witness to you.
I know you are in a difficult situation which is both frustrating and scary, because I struggled with the same confusing uncertainty many years ago, and my life was one of misery & fear.
Sincerely,
John

 

[ldonjohn]

Hey, Techedtchr, I went back and read my post #119 and I think I should have used the word "urgency' instead of the word "urge."
John

 

[diana092086]

That's great advice, Diana. May I suggest that first you make your salvation sure, then leave the rest up to God.
Diana, may I also suggest that you re-read the sermon "How to Come to Jesus" by Dr. Rice. It offers valuable information for someone who is seeking answers about how to believe.
John

Just the read article. I'll probably read it again. So we can be saved if we want to be. I think part of me does (i definitely don't want to go to hell) but part of me is holding back - I'm still clinging to my life and wanting control. I'm afraid of what he might ask me to do. I'm pretty sure I'll still give in to a lot of sins ( i have a tender conscience so maybe some things aren't sin and i think they are and i overthink it). Some people talk about following the Holy Spirit and walking by faith and doing what He says ( go be a missionary or do this or do that). what if i don't want to be a missionary? Or how do i know He's telling me to do something? That's all confusing to me.

I also fear I've gone too far in learning (i didn't let God teach me or give me faith but i learned from my logic and reason - things i learned - that the Bible is true and God is there) I'm believing - hoping he forgives that too.

Reading the article gives me hope- I've come to Jesus before (maybe in my heart?) - i just didn't experience any emotions or fireworks like the article states - some people have that experience so that confuses me if i don't have the same reaction. But the article says to trust God's word (with reference to above, i didn't always trust God's word - not until i made sure it was real and true on my own (fearing that I'm leaning on my own understanding and not God)) I'm still hopeful that can be forgiven.

I also fear that I've learnd so much about the Christian life that maybe i don't want to genuinely come to Him - maybe He can change that too? What about those passages "come to me with childlike faith" "follow me, don't turn back to say goodbye to your parents"? I don't think i have childlike faith - simple, trusting - rather, i have reservations, questions...And i didn't immediately drop everything to follow Jesus - I'm still waiting, questioning...i need to make a decision soon if i haven't already

Another thing - when I've come to Him in the past, i noticed no difference, no changes. I think that's what i was expecting and didn't realize i needed to pursue a relationship with Him. So maybe i need to trust I'm forgiven and work on the relationship? Then maybe I'll grow to love and know him more? And be assured? I don't know

 

[Chris0699]

Hey, Techedtchr, I went back and read my post #119 and I think I should have used the word "urgency' instead of the word "urge."
John

John,

I wonder about something. About a year ago, we were at a service that should have just broken my heart wide open, but it had no effect. My wife pressed me a bit on that, and I angrily said "well, I guess I don't believe in God and I guess I don't believe the gospel". I was angry because I had been striving to believe. But this anger did not seem normal. And when it subsided, I felt numb. The fear of hell which had previously been pretty intense went away. I wonder if I did something in that moment that drove the Holy Spirit off forever. The fear of hell has not been that intense since. I was barely sleeping and eating. No one's prayers for me have been answered. I really wonder if I did tick God off so much that He has departed. I can only hope I haven't.

 

[diana092086]

John,

I wonder about something. About a year ago, we were at a service that should have just broken my heart wide open, but it had no effect. My wife pressed me a bit on that, and I angrily said "well, I guess I don't believe in God and I guess I don't believe the gospel". I was angry because I had been striving to believe. But this anger did not seem normal. And when it subsided, I felt numb. The fear of hell which had previously been pretty intense went away. I wonder if I did something in that moment that drove the Holy Spirit off forever. The fear of hell has not been that intense since. I was barely sleeping and eating. No one's prayers for me have been answered. I really wonder if I did tick God off so much that He has departed. I can only hope I haven't.

Chris - i don't know for sure but i really don't think you drove God off. You and i are on such a similar journey - it's crazy. I've had such an intense fear of hell that either i couldn't sleep or sleep was all i wanted to do. And eating, really anything, didn't interest me. There are moments i have that i think I'm getting it and am at peace, but then there are moments where I'm convinced i belong to the devil and kinda let go and do what i want. I don't know about you, but my mind can go so far with crazy thoughts that i thought i was the devil himself and my destiny was the very pit of hell. I don't always think that way but i have.

But, I'm still learning. Something John said and I've learned before - the journey never ends. We never arrive - not in this life.

God's mercies are new every morning. Choose this day who you will serve. God's grace never runs out. He is constantly pouring out his grace on us whether we're aware of it or not. I think you and i just have a lot of trouble really believing that because we keep looking at how bad we are. We're horrible - but God loves us anyway. Let's forget about us and thank God for loving us!

You care - you said you hope you haven't ticked God off so much that He's left you. You have hope. God gives us hope! That's the one thing i know I've had on this journey - hope. But I'm also seeing so much love- from all the people in my life and online. Faith, hope, love. Let's ask God for faith. We have hope and love. I really believe he's with you and me too.

I could be wrong but this is what I'm learnng and believing.

 

[diana092086]

Read this on a friend's Facebook today...

There is simply nothing you can do to gain God’s favor. You have to accept this and remember it. You will never be righteous enough for long enough to satisfy God’s holy requirements. Your thoughts will never be pure enough. Your desires will never be holy enough. Your words will never be clean enough. Your choices and actions will never be God-honoring enough. The bar is too high for you and me to ever reach. There are no exceptions. We all live under the same weight of the law and the same inability of sin. We’re all better rebels than submissives. We’re all more naturally proud than humble. We’re all more given to idolatry than the worship of God. We do better at making war with our neighbors than loving them. We all find envy more natural than contentment. We’re all thieves in one way or another. We all covet what others have. We more naturally bend the truth than protect it. We condemn with our words rather than giving grace. We lay down evidence every day that we will never independently reach God’s standard.

Here is your “That says it all” statement: “For by the works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight” (Rom. 3:20). And why is this true? It’s true because “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Rom. 3:23). The language is all-inclusive. It leaves no room whatsoever for exceptions. It is the devastatingly humbling news that all people need to accept into their hearts and into their sense of their identity. But this hard-to-accept news is the doorway not to depressive self-loathing, but to eternal hope and joy. It’s only when you accept who you are and what you are unable to do that you begin to understand the necessity of God’s gift. Let’s put the bad news and the good news together, as Paul does in Romans 3. He writes, “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” but that is not the end of the story. He goes on to say that we “are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood. to be received by faith” (vv. 23–25).

-Paul Tripp

 

[ldonjohn]

John,

I wonder about something. About a year ago, we were at a service that should have just broken my heart wide open, but it had no effect. My wife pressed me a bit on that, and I angrily said "well, I guess I don't believe in God and I guess I don't believe the gospel". I was angry because I had been striving to believe. But this anger did not seem normal. And when it subsided, I felt numb. The fear of hell which had previously been pretty intense went away. I wonder if I did something in that moment that drove the Holy Spirit off forever. The fear of hell has not been that intense since. I was barely sleeping and eating. No one's prayers for me have been answered. I really wonder if I did tick God off so much that He has departed. I can only hope I haven't.

Well, I immediately thought about what the Apostle Peter did as Jesus was on the cross. When the Jews approached Peter and asked him if he was one of Jesus' followers Peter denied that he was a follower and he even cursed to convince them. What happened to Peter after that?
John

 

[Chris0699]

Well, I immediately thought about what the Apostle Peter did as Jesus was on the cross. When the Jews approached Peter and asked him if he was one of Jesus' followers Peter denied that he was a follower and he even cursed to convince them. What happened to Peter after that?
John

The Peter vs. Judas comparison has haunted me. Peter's sorrow led to repentance, mine has led to fear like Judas. I don't know how I will ever believe, or get desperate enough to beg God for my soul. I don't know how this will ever work. It is my apathy that worries me. God wants desperate, broken people. I don't fit that bill.

 

[ldonjohn]

Read this on a friend's Facebook today...

There is simply nothing you can do to gain God’s favor. You have to accept this and remember it. You will never be righteous enough for long enough to satisfy God’s holy requirements. Your thoughts will never be pure enough. Your desires will never be holy enough. Your words will never be clean enough. Your choices and actions will never be God-honoring enough. The bar is too high for you and me to ever reach. There are no exceptions. We all live under the same weight of the law and the same inability of sin. We’re all better rebels than submissives. We’re all more naturally proud than humble. We’re all more given to idolatry than the worship of God. We do better at making war with our neighbors than loving them. We all find envy more natural than contentment. We’re all thieves in one way or another. We all covet what others have. We more naturally bend the truth than protect it. We condemn with our words rather than giving grace. We lay down evidence every day that we will never independently reach God’s standard.

Here is your “That says it all” statement: “For by the works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight” (Rom. 3:20). And why is this true? It’s true because “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Rom. 3:23). The language is all-inclusive. It leaves no room whatsoever for exceptions. It is the devastatingly humbling news that all people need to accept into their hearts and into their sense of their identity. But this hard-to-accept news is the doorway not to depressive self-loathing, but to eternal hope and joy. It’s only when you accept who you are and what you are unable to do that you begin to understand the necessity of God’s gift. Let’s put the bad news and the good news together, as Paul does in Romans 3. He writes, “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” but that is not the end of the story. He goes on to say that we “are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood. to be received by faith” (vv. 23–25).

-Paul Tripp

Absolutely the truth! That's the good news; the Gospel.

 

[ldonjohn]

The Peter vs. Judas comparison has haunted me. Peter's sorrow led to repentance, mine has led to fear like Judas. I don't know how I will ever believe, or get desperate enough to beg God for my soul. I don't know how this will ever work. It is my apathy that worries me. God wants desperate, broken people. I don't fit that bill.

Hey, i thought I would never believe, and I begged God to save me for years.
God doesn't ask us to beg Him to saves us, but He will give us the faith we need to believe if we will allow Him to complete His work in us.
Think about this, if one of your children asked you this question "Daddy, when I die will go I to heaven?" and you could not give him/her the answer, would that break your heart?

 

[ldonjohn]

Chris - i don't know for sure but i really don't think you drove God off. You and i are on such a similar journey - it's crazy. I've had such an intense fear of hell that either i couldn't sleep or sleep was all i wanted to do. And eating, really anything, didn't interest me. There are moments i have that i think I'm getting it and am at peace, but then there are moments where I'm convinced i belong to the devil and kinda let go and do what i want. I don't know about you, but my mind can go so far with crazy thoughts that i thought i was the devil himself and my destiny was the very pit of hell. I don't always think that way but i have.

But, I'm still learning. Something John said and I've learned before - the journey never ends. We never arrive - not in this life.

God's mercies are new every morning. Choose this day who you will serve. God's grace never runs out. He is constantly pouring out his grace on us whether we're aware of it or not. I think you and i just have a lot of trouble really believing that because we keep looking at how bad we are. We're horrible - but God loves us anyway. Let's forget about us and thank God for loving us!

You care - you said you hope you haven't ticked God off so much that He's left you. You have hope. God gives us hope! That's the one thing i know I've had on this journey - hope. But I'm also seeing so much love- from all the people in my life and online. Faith, hope, love. Let's ask God for faith. We have hope and love. I really believe he's with you and me too.

I could be wrong but this is what I'm learnng and believing.

Diana, I want to emphasize that your reference to something I said about "we never arrive - not in this life" is totally about the Christian struggle with sin. That Christians either walk in God's Spirit or in the flesh which is a choice we make every day until we die. It has nothing to do with unbelievers. If the unbeliever "never arrives" or never becomes a believer in this life then the unbeliever is lost forever. In that message I was explaining the difference between "justification" and "sanctification."
John

 

[Chris0699]

This video worries me as well, though it is more aimed at Christians who are witnessing to people:

 

[Chris0699]

Read this on a friend's Facebook today...

There is simply nothing you can do to gain God’s favor. You have to accept this and remember it. You will never be righteous enough for long enough to satisfy God’s holy requirements. Your thoughts will never be pure enough. Your desires will never be holy enough. Your words will never be clean enough. Your choices and actions will never be God-honoring enough. The bar is too high for you and me to ever reach. There are no exceptions. We all live under the same weight of the law and the same inability of sin. We’re all better rebels than submissives. We’re all more naturally proud than humble. We’re all more given to idolatry than the worship of God. We do better at making war with our neighbors than loving them. We all find envy more natural than contentment. We’re all thieves in one way or another. We all covet what others have. We more naturally bend the truth than protect it. We condemn with our words rather than giving grace. We lay down evidence every day that we will never independently reach God’s standard.

Here is your “That says it all” statement: “For by the works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight” (Rom. 3:20). And why is this true? It’s true because “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Rom. 3:23). The language is all-inclusive. It leaves no room whatsoever for exceptions. It is the devastatingly humbling news that all people need to accept into their hearts and into their sense of their identity. But this hard-to-accept news is the doorway not to depressive self-loathing, but to eternal hope and joy. It’s only when you accept who you are and what you are unable to do that you begin to understand the necessity of God’s gift. Let’s put the bad news and the good news together, as Paul does in Romans 3. He writes, “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” but that is not the end of the story. He goes on to say that we “are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood. to be received by faith” (vv. 23–25).

-Paul Tripp

Hey Diana, how are you doing?

 

[Chris0699]

Oops, duplicate post.

 

[diana092086]

Hey Diana, how are you doing?

Hey, Chris. I don't know...kinda the same. Up and down. I had a little breakdown last night. Then I read a couple articles from John Piper and was a little encouraged. I can share them with you if you'd like. How are you?

John recommended I register for Rapture Forum too so I did that yesterday. Don't know if you're on it but maybe check that out. Hope you're doing well.

 

[Chris0699]

Hey, Chris. I don't know...kinda the same. Up and down. I had a little breakdown last night. Then I read a couple articles from John Piper and was a little encouraged. I can share them with you if you'd like. How are you?

John recommended I register for Rapture Forum too so I did that yesterday. Don't know if you're on it but maybe check that out. Hope you're doing well.

Not good. Don't know what I could honestly pray to God. If I'm unwilling to repent, He won't hear me. Yet, He has to be acting in order for me to repent. I don't know what to do. Ask God for something I'm not sure I want?

 

[diana092086]

Not good. Don't know what I could honestly pray to God. If I'm unwilling to repent, He won't hear me. Yet, He has to be acting in order for me to repent. I don't know what to do. Ask God for something I'm not sure I want?

I know. I feel the same. I thought i wanted to be saved but the more i learn, the more i think I'm a sinner without the Holy Spirit and that maybe i just want sin and don't want to be saved. It's messed up.

 

[Chris0699]

I know. I feel the same. I thought i wanted to be saved but the more i learn, the more i think I'm a sinner without the Holy Spirit and that maybe i just want sin and don't want to be saved. It's messed up.

I reread aiki's advice. I guess our prayer needs to be "help us want You more than we want ourselves, give us proper sight of our sin" and hope that He intervenes before He comes back or we die. Read gospels and Romans and hope He will show up in power to break our stubborn wills. Ask for prayer from whomever will.

 

[diana092086]

I reread aiki's advice. I guess our prayer needs to be "help us want You more than we want ourselves, give us proper sight of our sin" and hope that He intervenes before He comes back or we die. Read gospels and Romans and hope He will show up in power to break our stubborn wills. Ask for prayer from whomever will.

Yes, so many tell me my problem is I look at myself when I should be looking at Jesus. It's so easy to look inwardly and see all the mistakes and garbage. But that's what He came for - to save us from ourselves. Have you checked out Rapture Forum?