I think I'm done.

[ShaunJ]

Professing to be a Christian. I didn't know where else to put this, so I figured this would be the place. I'm officially changing my icon to deist.

I'm just worn out and tired of the fight. The guilt and condemnation that comes with Christianity are too much for me to bear right now. My personal vices play a large role in this, but after years of struggling with addictions of all sorts as a Christian, I have decided that for the time being I am no longer going to call myself one (Christian).

I went on a personal journey as an atheist to Christianity, and have spent 5 years in it, only to be back in a place of belief (in God) and unbelief (as in uncertainty).

Anyway, I may share more later.

 

[Rasta]

Good luck on your journey. Hope you find what you are looking for.

 

[seashale76]

I've been in your position before. May you find what you are seeking.

 

[Chesterton]

The guilt and condemnation that comes with Christianity are too much for me to bear right now.

None of us could bear the guilt and condemnation we all deserve. But it's been borne for us; in that our faith resides. God bless.

 

[ShaunJ]

None of us could bear the guilt and condemnation we all deserve. But it's been borne for us; in that our faith resides. God bless.

Indeed I realize that. What I'm referring to is my own guilt in the things that I have not been able to over come. Even though I have prayed for it, sought God in the matter, laid down everything but my bible, and personally devoted myself to Jesus. Yet, I'm still in vices that have not been broken. My chains are still bound. I'm done with it.

 

[Rasta]

Indeed I realize that. What I'm referring to is my own guilt in the things that I have not been able to over come. Even though I have prayed for it, sought God in the matter, laid down everything but my bible, and personally devoted myself to Jesus. Yet, I'm still in vices that have not been broken. My chains are still bound. I'm done with it.

Realize that the power to change can only come within. That doesn't mean that you should not try to seek help. Get all the help you can. But your perception determines your reality. If you want your reality to change, your perception has to change (not easy when speaking of addiction).

 

[jpcedotal]

Indeed I realize that. What I'm referring to is my own guilt in the things that I have not been able to over come. Even though I have prayed for it, sought God in the matter, laid down everything but my bible, and personally devoted myself to Jesus. Yet, I'm still in vices that have not been broken. My chains are still bound. I'm done with it.

God Bless man and I can relate. I hope you make your way back to Christianity. Vices make me feel like such a hypocrite.

 

[LightSeaker]

Professing to be a Christian. I didn't know where else to put this, so I figured this would be the place. I'm officially changing my icon to deist.

There's the religion Christianity. And than there is Jesus Christ. The two are not one and the same. One need not be a Christian to know and love Jesus Christ.

.

 

[peaceful soul]

Professing to be a Christian. I didn't know where else to put this, so I figured this would be the place. I'm officially changing my icon to deist.

I'm just worn out and tired of the fight. The guilt and condemnation that comes with Christianity are too much for me to bear right now. My personal vices play a large role in this, but after years of struggling with addictions of all sorts as a Christian, I have decided that for the time being I am no longer going to call myself one (Christian).

I went on a personal journey as an atheist to Christianity, and have spent 5 years in it, only to be back in a place of belief (in God) and unbelief (as in uncertainty).

Anyway, I may share more later.

It is difficult to say much since I don't know your background; so, I will try to be careful in speaking. What I can say is that having a relationship with Christ is what brings you to the point where you can come to the end of self and learn to accept the grace and mercy of Christ. If you haven't been broken down to that point by Christ--not of your own will--life will be difficult. If you are using your progress in how well you have come in breaking your vices, you have the wrong perspective, if I am understanding correctly. It is not about you, but Christ. I will argue that you never reached that point if you are able to walk away. It is not until we have been broken down that we can see what Christ is doing. Until we have reached the broken state, we restrain Christ from doing the work in us. Before we are broken, we are relying upon self more than Christ. We have not yet been humbled. When we reach that humbled state, we are able to say to Christ that we give up and will not fight any longer and give the fight over to Him. He can then begin His work in changing us. Even if we don't seem to be making any progress, we must trust in Him. Sometimes that is the main issue--trust in Christ and what He has promised. Coming to Christ does not erase sin. You will continue to do that for the rest of your life here on earth. For all you know, you could be looking at the wrong issue. You may see it as being A, B, and C whereas it may be something else that you are blind to that only Christ can reveal to you by humbling you.

What kind of guilt and condemnation has come with Christianity?

 

[Philothei]

It is not until we have been broken down that we can see what Christ is doing. Until we have reached the broken state, we restrain Christ from doing the work in us. Before we are broken, we are relying upon self more than Christ. We have not yet been humbled. When we reach that humbled state, we are able to say to Christ that we give up and will not fight any longer and give the fight over to Him. He can then begin His work in changing us. Even if we don't seem to be making any progress, we must trust in Him.

Peaceful soul that was beautifully said I agree that those of us who have totally and surrender to His love and we lay our soul and heart to Him we truly experience Him... It is at the breaking point that Job found God .... It is okay to "ask" for we always "find"....if we seek Him, Christ. It is okay to doubt for we are human and we err.... what we cannot do though is lose hope cause we lose everything ....
The important thing is when you fall to get right up and go... We may never win the war or come last in our race... but it is important to keep in the race and do be in the war... Do not give up.. no matter how hard is the race. Those who come last are as blessed as those who come first for what is important is the actual race..... if you need to rest let it be so but do not quit.....

Silver and gold are tried by putting them into the furnace and fining-pot; so is a man tried by praising him. (Pr 27:22)

this verse always brings tears to my eyes as to what we the believers go through.... Not so much because I feel "special" by far ... But someting tells me that I am percecuted because I am Christian... The devil does go after the most "beloved" of God. One can take a look at Job and realize that...

God be with you...

 

[Dharma Wheel]

Well as this is the non-Christian forum (most people in this thread are Christians...odd!) I presume you want advice and insights from non-Christians.

Well, as a Buddhist, I don't believe in original sin. The whole concept seems highly illogical to me; why blame the whole race for two bad apples? The whole idea of sinning is, in fact, illogical to me. In Buddhism you do bad deeds but I wouldn't declare them sin, merely mistakes that need to be retivied; that is how karma works. However, in Buddha Dharma or Buddhism as it is known in the west, all souls will reach enlightenment in the end (it is the same for all Dharmic faiths and most Indo-European faiths) and no one will burn in a lake of fire forever.

We do have Naraka which is more like purgatory than hell. The lowest level of Naraka is Avīci which souls can be born into for a long period but not eternity (when they gain good karma, which they will because that is how it works, they are free). To get to this level you would have had to killed your parents, injured a Buddha, disrupted a Sangha or killed an Arhat.

Anyway, your vices are probably not as bad as you think! A lot of Christians have inflated certain vices when in fact they are not a big deal. In the end I agree with Rasta, you must find the truth and the power within yourself. You don't need to be forgiven but if something bothers you, you must explore it to see if you can change it.

 

[awitch]

Hi ShuanJ. It must be hard to leave behind something that was a major influence in your life for such a long time. I'm not sure how you feel about being told you weren't Christian enough by people who never met you.

More often than not, we can't overcome vices on our own. A little deity might help some, but god helps those who help themselves. There are many organizations out there dedicated to help people with all sorts of different addictions which may be very beneficial.

I wish you luck on your journey.

 

[SJC-Coop]

Dude, I nkow where you are, I've been there....very recently. I thought I'd stop at Deist, but I think I lablelled myself as Deist for about 2 weeks. I'm an Agnostic Atheist now.
There is light after the feeilngs of leaving the church. It's tough, because there is guilt, a lot of guilt, but it's going to be fine, and you'll feel better every day.

Good luck man!

 

[SJC-Coop]

Realize that the power to change can only come within. That doesn't mean that you should not try to seek help. Get all the help you can. But your perception determines your reality. If you want your reality to change, your perception has to change (not easy when speaking of addiction).

So, what you are saying is that prayer doesn't work, we have to do it ourselves. I agree 100%. Prayer doesn't work. We will have to do it all ourselves. God does not answer prayers and does not give strength.
If he is even there, he is not involved, he's a spectator.
Personally I've come to the conclusion that he's not there, but that's just me.

 

[Lemmiwinks]

I'm just worn out and tired of the fight. The guilt and condemnation that comes with Christianity are too much for me to bear right now. My personal vices play a large role in this, but after years of struggling with addictions of all sorts as a Christian, I have decided that for the time being I am no longer going to call myself one (Christian).

i've been feeling the exact same way

 

[Rasta]

So, what you are saying is that prayer doesn't work, we have to do it ourselves. I agree 100%. Prayer doesn't work. We will have to do it all ourselves.

Yes this is what I believe. This is how I eliminated my addiction.

God does not answer prayers and does not give strength.
If he is even there, he is not involved, he's a spectator.

Though the mere belief that god is giving you strength can give you strength. Ever hear of the placebo effect? It's basiclly wishfull thinking. So I think this is a very personal matter, and what works for one person might be very different for another.

Personally I've come to the conclusion that he's not there, but that's just me.

Me too.

 

[peaceful soul]

Yes this is what I believe. This is how I eliminated my addiction.



Though the mere belief that god is giving you strength can give you strength. Ever hear of the placebo effect? It's basiclly wishfull thinking. So I think this is a very personal matter, and what works for one person might be very different for another.



Me too.

Now can't that placebo effect work in an opposite manner as well? Can't you then say that whatever experience that you get in your life could be the result of a placebo effect? I know that your conclusion seems logical to you, but if there is a god, then you may have miscalculated quite a bit on how things work or don't work. Just a thought.............

 

[Penumbra]

I can relate Shaun. I stopped being religious for different reasons, but still the affect is probably the same. When I stopped believing in God it was a very emotionally tough time for me. I don't think I ever fully recovered, at least not yet, even though it's been years. Since you're still a deist, hopefully the feeling isn't as intense.

Luckily, a lot of people who change religions or deconvert altogether seem to end up happy, so it works out for some or most people.

 

[ShaunJ]

So, what you are saying is that prayer doesn't work, we have to do it ourselves. I agree 100%. Prayer doesn't work. We will have to do it all ourselves. God does not answer prayers and does not give strength.
If he is even there, he is not involved, he's a spectator.
Personally I've come to the conclusion that he's not there, but that's just me.

I have not came quite that far and I'm not sure I will. I'm not even sure I'm totally renouncing my Christian faith. I'm in a rough and confused spot. I'm not sure what I'm doing.

I feel like I have potentially wasted a lot of years, or perhaps I'm just in a rough patch of life and expecting too much from my faith?

Hi ShuanJ. It must be hard to leave behind something that was a major influence in your life for such a long time. I'm not sure how you feel about being told you weren't Christian enough by people who never met you.

I guess it's OK. I left a lot of room for guess work. I purposefully didn't go into a lot of detail. Although, I do find it amazing that anyone can tell someone else they were are not "Christian" enough.

I preached, I taught, I did nursing home ministry, gave to the poor, missions, and well the list goes on. But it's not all about the works now is it...

There comes a time when we must test our beliefs by fire, and by doing so accept what ever comes out on the other side. - me


That sums up my current journey. Where I end up I know not but I will accept it when it comes.

 

[Rasta]

Now can't that placebo effect work in an opposite manner as well? Can't you then say that whatever experience that you get in your life could be the result of a placebo effect? I know that your conclusion seems logical to you, but if there is a god, then you may have miscalculated quite a bit on how things work or don't work. Just a thought.............

Oh, definately. I'm not trying to assert that I know the truth, just that beliefs that are in error can still be physically benificial to thoes who believe they are true. The placebo effect is based on wishfull thinking. Since I don't believe in god, I try to stimulate my own placebo effect with wishfull thinking.

I hope that made sence.