I think I regret

JimR-OCDS · Feb 22, 2011

Brikkz said:
I definitely didn't believe it at the time. I used to read the psalms and then praydream. (my own word for the experience) Its like I was daydreaming and praying at the same time, my thoughts were totally clear and I would pray the psalms its hard to explain what I was going through when I was a new Christian. And that was no good for me because there was emotional love for God attached to that which emotions are what is it? deceitful. so I wanted a true love for God. I also wanted to come to Christ....and he is truly present in the Eucharist that was important to me also. I guess a lot of things formed my reason for wanting to be Catholic. The only things I regret are not giving myself enough time to think....I guess.

I already know we can't harbor true love for God before anyone can tell me that.

Anyone who tells you that the emotions and the spiritual life are not connected doesn't know what they're talking about.

The spiritual life doesn't turn us into stoic statue like people, but feeling human beings. Our feelings become in union with God's love.

Love God with all the emotion and feelings you have and receive from Him, all the feelings and emotions He gives.

There will come a time when God will stop providing you with consolations, but this will be down the road when you're spiritually mature enough to handle it. It's called the Dark Night of the Soul.

Interior prayer is the best way, as St. Ablert the Great wrote;

the more inward-looking the desire for it, the more powerful this means of ascent to the mysterious contemplation of the holy Trinity in Unity and Unity in Trinity in Jesus Christ is, and the more interior the yearning, the more productive it is. Certainly in matters spiritual the more inward they are the greater they are as spiritual experiences.

Jim

Ortho_Cat · Feb 22, 2011

BAFRIEND said:
i am in charge of the welcoming ministry

That makes it even more awkward...

CruciFixed · Feb 22, 2011

Someone when I first converted to Christianity told me that I am overly emotional or some such thing and that I am letting my heart "feelings" deceive me.

I don't know how to pray internally but will learn. Thanks I will look into it.

JimR-OCDS · Feb 22, 2011

Well keep in mind that we do need to keep our emotions in check with reality.

Emotions are neither right nor wrong, they have no morality. It's how we respond to them that makes them right or wrong.

Our emotions are what we feel and they come from our experiences, but often from our perceptions which are often flawed.

For instance, you feel hurt because you perceive that another person hates you.

It's not the emotion you're feeling that is wrong, but the flawed perception about the other person's hatred toward you.

If you were to inquire how the person really feels about you and discovered that you were in fact wrong about them hating you, but found they actually liked you, you would again have emotional feelings, but this time they would be based on reality.

Generally, flawed perceptions are driven by the ego, which is why humility is taught to be such an important virtue in the spiritual life.

When our emotions are in line with truth, they are good. When feel God's love, the emotion you feel is good, for God is love, but also truth.

Jim

benedictaoo · Feb 22, 2011

Brikkz said:
I think about everything including things like "Why do I exist?" and how come my existance seems to hurt a lot. Why did God send so many bad people in my life even when I was so young? I hurt a lot growing up and have not stopped hurting yet I think that I just answered my own question in my head
Everyone suffers is the answer to most of the above. Why I exist I sometimes wonder when I wish often I didn't

I understand exactly where you are coming from and I know about ppl that hurt you and reject you when you only try to be a friend to them but thats all part of the healing. Rejection is what it is but look at it like a chance to get closer to God and learn how to just take ppl as they come.

I think about the exact same things, I think, why this, or why not that, etc and it can make you mad (crazy mad) and/or shut down with ppl and the faith.

I see horrible ppl who has it easy in life, I see good ppl getting screwed over... I see happily married ppl with easy kids and you want to know what the hell? Why is it harder for you? Did you pick the wrong person? Did you do something wrong, what? What is it?

So I have the same thoughts and struggles and they come up at differnt times and stages of your life. Wait till you are much older and its heath issues and you want to know why other ppl aren't having these kinds of problems, etc.

So life isn't fair and we never get what we deserve, we just get what we get.

Knowing that God is there but knowing He allows us so much freedom is freeing to the mind becuase you know God's not doing this to you, its just life as we know it in a fallen world.

Its truly a mater of what you do with the rest of your life from this point forward, its not about anything that happened or anyone who hurt you. We have to keep moving forward.

Jesus said to St Catherine (was it?) The past is dead, the future is unborn.

when we live in either we mess ourselves up. Enjoy the now and make it all you want it to be.

Am I making sense or am I rambling?

benedictaoo · Feb 22, 2011

Brikkz,

also, what helps me off the ledge is just remembering what Mary said to Bernadette when the poor thing, after all she went through, just wanted to go away and marry a guy she really thought she might have loved, but thought she was supposed to be a nun instead, so she asked Mary about it and Mary said, "I can not promise you happiness in this world, only in the next..."

So there you go. God never promised us we would have wonderful lives and great friends, great kids, great parents, great spouses.

We get what we get and its what do we do with what we have that makes the difference.

WarriorAngel · Feb 22, 2011

God doesnt send bad people into our lives, that would mean He has no use for them as souls He desires.
Bad people exist by their own poor choices in the whole free will essentially.

Yes, the chaff will exist with the wheat....but He doesnt put people there to hurt us. They simply exist.
They are weak to the temptations to do evil, and many times dont even realize it.

WarriorAngel · Feb 22, 2011

We exist so we can eventually be a part of His Kingdom.. to be WITH Him eternally.
That is why humanity exists...to be His forever. To be loved and to love Him.

Everything else is just getting through this period the best we can loving Him and serving Him, unseen, until the day He brings us Home to Him.
Faith like a child - not seeing but believing and serving Him - doing His Will - teaching our children to love Him,,,so forth,,, and persevering with the help of His graces... is the sole purpose of this life.

Work, food, clothing, shelter...basic needs - are secondary and are met by His blessings only to survive here physically.

Most important of all is love.. for God and others... while we pass thru our generation.
No one really likes life... its hard, its not always fun, but its a temporary place we rest our heads while we do the labor for the rewards we may obtain in Heaven.

Michie · Feb 22, 2011

Brikkz said:
Well I just mean I was alienating Michie because she thought that it was her fault that I was tripping out. Which it wasn't.

Brikkz, you have not alienated me. I was just afraid I did something to upset you that I could not figure out. As far as your blog.... nothing to be ashamed of. But if it is interferring somehow... talking to a professional may help. These things are more commonplace than you may think. Everything is cool on my side. So please don't worry. *hugs* My reaction was a bit paranoid in itself as I've been running of fumes myself lately.

JoabAnias · Feb 22, 2011

Meepy said:
I believe intellect and faith are intertwined.

They are not only to be integrated properly but they are meant to be complimentary.

To say our intellect/reason and faith have nothing to do with each other is in no way a Catholic teaching.

Its also unbiblical:

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord Christ in your hearts, being ready always to satisfy every one that asketh you a reason of that hope which is in you.

Our last Pope wrote extensively on the complimentary relationship between faith and reason:

Pope John Paul II: Faith and reason

Anyone who comes in here telling you any different is probably disregarding their intellect over their emotions or just ignorant of Catholic teaching.

The heart is perverse and must be interpreted through light of our intellect.

Jeremias 17:9
The heart is perverse above all things, and unsearchable, who can know it?

Brikzz my friend, learn of yourself. This is how we understand others. Be cautious with your emotions. They can often deceive.

Michie · Feb 22, 2011

Meepy said:
I wouldn't recommend the CCC for someone having trouble.

The compendium would be much better. It has most of the basic questions answered in a very solid way.

coming from a book nut...

I know that after RCIA Mystagogia is offered or should be. THE CCC is very simple if you have had this instruction & support after entering the Church. It can be a bit dry at times of course so your suggestion is not off the mark at all.

CruciFixed · Feb 22, 2011

WarriorAngel said:
God doesnt send bad people into our lives, that would mean He has no use for them as souls He desires.
Bad people exist by their own poor choices in the whole free will essentially.

Yes, the chaff will exist with the wheat....but He doesnt put people there to hurt us. They simply exist.
They are weak to the temptations to do evil, and many times dont even realize it.

I know about weakness and evil. I am often tempted to do what it is evil but it goes back to making sure I pray pray pray. Not everyone has that in their lives I am blessed.

Michie said:
Brikkz, you have not alienated me. I was just afraid I did something to upset you that I could not figure out. As far as your blog.... nothing to be ashamed of. But if it is interferring somehow... talking to a professional may help. These things are more commonplace than you may think. Everything is cool on my side. So please don't worry. *hugs* My reaction was a bit paranoid in itself as I've been running of fumes myself lately.

It wasn't you I was just scared to death of I don't know what. I know its a public forum and how strange would it be to think that nobody would see but I thought people ignored me so I Was shocked that someone read that silly little thing. I was pouring out my heart there and beating myself up. I do this a few times a year then I'm "normal"

Michie · Feb 22, 2011

Brikkz said:
I know about weakness and evil. I am often tempted to do what it is evil but it goes back to making sure I pray pray pray. Not everyone has that in their lives I am blessed.

It wasn't you I was just scared to death of I don't know what. I know its a public forum and how strange would it be to think that nobody would see but I thought people ignored me so I Was shocked that someone read that silly little thing. I was pouring out my heart there and beating myself up. I do this a few times a year then I'm "normal"

We all beat ourselves up Brikkz & are full of regrets & what-ifs... but the secret is trusting God's plans. Even when we feel we've screwed them up somehow. There is nothing wrong with wants & desires but what is past is past. Not much we can do about it now. We cannot make people into what we think they should be on a personal level.

As far as being ignored on messageboards... Seriously, we are all ignored here in one way or the other. People are here for various reasons, some healthy & productive, others, not so much.

But one thing is for certain, you cannot evaluate your self worth by the replies you get on a MB. Especially here in OBOB. The place is a soap opera 99.9% of the time!

CruciFixed · Feb 22, 2011

Soap operas!! Woo. No I don't value it by that. I always beat myself up without the message board. Well I beat myself up a few times a year its a process.

Michie · Feb 22, 2011

We all beat ourselves up Brikkz... but there comes a time when you just have to work with what you got. Put God into the equation & it's pretty much a sure bet regardless.

CruciFixed · Feb 22, 2011

I agree with that.

Michie · Feb 22, 2011

Brikkz said:
I agree with that.

Things will get better. You will see things differently as time goes along. As you grow. But when you are in it neck deep...it is hard to see things with any healthy perspective. God understands that. Give it time.

Meepy · Feb 23, 2011

JimR-OCDS said:
Meepy

That is only logical rationalization, not faith.

The most intellectually poor have the greatest amounts of faith, because their faith is from God and not through their own intellect.

Faith is God's revelation to us, however that may happen and it deepens as our relationship with Him deepens.

We are transformed by His grace, not through anything we do on our own.

Whatever we have, was given to us.

Jim

faith is not separated from intellect. It is our senses that compute things through out intellect. Someone with a low IQ still can intellectually compute things. Why do you think the subset of Scholasticism came about?

Faith is not some mindless thing separate from intellect. The near 6000 pages of the Summa go through why this is so.

This is not to say that it is because of ordinary intellect. But rather extraordinary intellect that becomes supernatural by the promptings of the Holy Spirit. In some dogmatic writings faith is called supernatural intellect. Just as the idiot cannot reason in the natural order, so too the person without divine and Catholic faith cannot "reason" in the supernatural order. But as the same time intellect isn't devoid totally from faith as if we are robots or puppets on strings. As St. Paul says God is evident within creation "so we are without excuse". This is why Jesus performed many miracles. To prove who he was because he knew many would not accept him on words only.

When making man, God ordained that each and every one of His human creatures were to function both with a natural intellect and with a supernatural intellect. When either of these are absent, the human being is defective. Hence, the atheist is not just less learned in supernatural truths, but he is entirely without supernatural truth. God directs man to his natural end by the human intellect, and He directs him to his supernatural end with his faith. As already stated, even a naturally good intellect is defective when it is not assisted by divine and Catholic faith.

JoabAnias · Feb 23, 2011

Meepy said:
faith is not separated from intellect. It is our senses that compute things through out intellect. Someone with a low IQ still can intellectually compute things. Why do you think the subset of Scholasticism came about?

Faith is not some mindless thing separate from intellect. The near 6000 pages of the Summa go through why this is so.

This is not to say that it is because of ordinary intellect. But rather extraordinary intellect that becomes supernatural by the promptings of the Holy Spirit. In some dogmatic writings faith is called supernatural intellect. Just as the idiot cannot reason in the natural order, so too the person without divine and Catholic faith cannot "reason" in the supernatural order. But as the same time intellect isn't devoid totally from faith as if we are robots or puppets on strings. As St. Paul says God is evident within creation "so we are without excuse". This is why Jesus performed many miracles. To prove who he was because he knew many would not accept him on words only.

When making man, God ordained that each and every one of His human creatures were to function both with a natural intellect and with a supernatural intellect. When either of these are absent, the human being is defective. Hence, the atheist is not just less learned in supernatural truths, but he is entirely without supernatural truth. God directs man to his natural end by the human intellect, and He directs him to his supernatural end with his faith. As already stated, even a naturally good intellect is defective when it is not assisted by divine and Catholic faith.

You may enjoy this:

WHY I AM RELIGIOUS AND NOT "JUST" SPIRITUAL

I always get a kick out of these folks who go around saying, “I’m spiritual, but I’m not religious. Oh no, I’m not religious.”I want to say You're not religious? Does blood not beat in your veins? Have you never ached with sorrow at the suffering of the world? Have you never cried at the flight of a bird? Have you never fallen in love?

"It comes as no great surprise to discover that the most powerful and valuable projection one ever makes is falling in love. This too is a shadow projection and probably the most profound religious experience one is ever likely to have…To fall in love is to project the most noble and infinitely valuable part of one’s being onto another human being…To make this examination more difficult, we have to say that the divinity we see in others is truly there, but we don’t have the right to see it until we have taken away our own projections…Making this fine distinction in the most delicate and difficult task in life."
--Robert A. Johnson, Owning Your Own Shadow ....

....
"Religious experience is absolute; it cannot be disputed. You can only say that you have never had such an experience, whereupon your opponent will reply: ‘Sorry, I have.’ And there your discussion will come to an end. No matter what the world thinks about the religious experience, the one who has it possesses a great treasure, a thing that has become for him a source of life, meaning, and beauty, and that has given a new splendor to the world and to mankind….No one can know what the ultimate things are. We must, therefore, take them as we experience them. And if such experience helps to make life healthier, more beautiful, more complete and more satisfactory to yourself and to those you love, you may safely say: ‘This was the grace of God.’”
--C. G. Jung

JimR-OCDS · Feb 23, 2011

Meepy

faith is not separated from intellect.

They are not separate, but faith doesn't come through rationalization by the intellect.

Faith is a gift from God, which only God can give.

You can not think yourself into having faith, only belief.

Faith is God's revelation of Himself to the individual, however that may happen.

Jim

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