I see no point in going to church, why bother?; tired of mainstream Christian culture, why

Musician4Jesus

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DISCLAIMER: I am not blaming or judging anybody; all I am doing is being honest based on my past experiences from my own life in regards to my experience with mainstream Christian culture and going to church. I am not making generalizations because again, I am speaking from past experience in my own life in regards to going to church and the experiences I've had with mainstream Christian culture. This is preemptive and here for the sake of clarification in regards to the post that follows.

I have relocated to a new state, so I'm basically 'starting from scratch' for lack of a better term, because it's a new area that I have recently relocated to, so I'm not established yet (in regards to finding a church, making friendships, social networks/support systems, etc.)

I realize and understand how important it is to go to church in regards to your walk with God and relationship with Him. However I have become so disgusted and fed up with mainstream Christian culture, that I see no point in doing so. I managed to find a church where I used to live; initially when I was looking for a church where I used to live, I was looking for a church that reminded me of the church I went to beforehand, because I loved that church, so I thought it was what I was looking for. I didn't realize until I attended the church, that the longer I attended it the more frustrated, sad, and angry I became attending it. I didn't realize this was how I felt in general with it, until I relocated and stopped attending. I am not saying it was all bad; I developed some 'friendships' there, but even with those friendships and 'fellowship' with the interaction I had with these friends, I was still frustrated (I will extrapolate on this later in the post)

The reasons I see no point in going to a new church and why I am fed up with mainstream contemporary Christian culture as a whole are....

*I heard incessantly in my old church how important it was to do your walk with God together and do life together in regards to fellowship. However fellowship only happened with church-oriented events (church on Sundays and occasional church functions) and at weekly small group (i.e. a Bible study that also included prayer); fellowship in real life outside of church-related stuff was non-existent. I think fellowship should start from these things, but I don't believe it should only be relegated to church-related stuff; I think it should start there, and branch out from there into real life.

*One-sided friendships. As said before, in the church I previously attended where I used to live before I relocated, I developed some 'friendships'. However it was extremely frustrating to me because I basically ended up doing all the work in them. I was the one always initiating with contact, and if I didn't initiate with contact, I never heard from them. I thought real friendships were supposed to be a two-way street, where the other friend also reciprocated with initiating with contact; however I never saw this happening. Different people feel loved in different ways and to me, if you can't take 5 minutes out your schedule to initiate with contact, then I don't think you care about me as a person or my life. Yes, I realize that people are busy and have their own lives; however I am not asking for the friendship I have with them to completely monopolize their lives. If they made a semi-consistent effort with initiating with communicating that would suffice for me; however I didn't even see them doing that much. Yet at the same time it frustrates me, when I hear 'well people are busy they have other priorities'; to me that is just an excuse to be complacent because if a friendship matters to you and you claim to care about the person like you say you do, you're going to make time for them, make time for the friendship, and at least attempt to make an effort.

*Mainstream Christian culture and contemporary Christian churches are monopolized by married couples and/or married Christians with families. By this I mean, the church caters to married couples and/or those with families. There are tons of resources and programs targeted specifically for them; there are a myriad of sermons preached that are geared towards this audience. It's great if you fall under either of these 'categories' (for lack of a better term), however if you're single it sucks. At the church I went to, they catered exclusively to married couples and/or those with families; there was nothing for singles. So it basically seemed like I was being treated as invisible because I was single, and was being marginalized because I wasn't married. Even in churches that do have programs for singles, I still sense this attitude of and stigma towards being single from the church as a whole. By this I mean, I have received the attitude/perspective of (in regards to Christians having married couples) 'well they are busy and have other priorities, so yes you'll be on the back burner'. To me, whether intentional or not, it basically comes off as 'you're single, so you don't deserve my time and you don't matter' essentially it comes off as being slighted. This is extremely frustrating to me, because it basically comes off as, you don't matter and are inferior cause you're single. Shortly before I relocated (it was the last time I attended the church before I moved) my church announced they were starting a new ministry, and of course, it was geared towards families. I don't have a problem with support systems/ministry for married Christians and/or Christians with families. However, when all the programs being developed are exclusively geared towards that audience, it is very frustrating, and aggravates me; namely because it's like singles are marginalized and their needs aren't acknowledged and/or there is this attitude that because they're singles they don't have needs. If it is acknowledged by the mainstream Christian culture and the contemporary Christian church, quite frankly I don't see anything really being done to address those needs.

*Selfish serving. I received help from Christians from the small group I went to; I was grateful for it and appreciated it. I am not denying that they helped me and served me; I am acknowledging this plain-as-day. However, despite them helping me, I still only saw it happening when it was convenient for them. I've seen incessantly in the church this attitude of 'just take a few hours out of your schedule to serve' and it seems the majority of the time, that Christians only seem to serve when it's convenient for them; I'll serve you if it doesn't interfere with my schedule, my life and/or my priorities. This is very frustrating to me, because if that is how you're going to serve, why bother doing so? Real serving and real ministry a lot of times will require sacrifice, so if you're going to be that selfish about doing so, it completely defeats the purpose of serving in the first place. What makes it even more irritating is half the time it gets flipped back on me; they just assume I serve like that too, or that because I choose to be discreet and not divulge on how I've served, it means I haven't at all. I am not perfect by any means; however the majority of the time when I have served, it wasn't convenient for me and when I served, I did so when it was difficult for me. I am not being conceited when I say this, I am just being in honest. Another thing I've noticed with serving is this philosophy of 'serve doing what you like, where your passions are'. On the one hand I can understand serving using the natural abilities and gifts God has given you, because you will naturally be more effective in serving; there is also nothing inherently wrong with serving and enjoying doing so because it utilizes doing stuff you enjoy. However on the other hand, it comes off as 'if you don't enjoy doing it, you shouldn't serve that way'; that is extremely frustrating to me and very selfish and shallow way of serving because a lot of the time you're not going to get to serve how you want, and you're not going to get to serve how you want, because serving requires sacrifice, and what I just described are ways of sacrifice with serving.

*Being judged and attacked for being real about your problems. By this I mean, I've had it happen incessantly of Christians think or notice something is wrong, so they ask what is wrong. Then you tell them, and because it's not happy and nice like they want to hear, you get accused of whining/complaining and/or being negative if when you describe the problems it is pain, sorrow, and/or frustration. So it's like if you are real about your life and it involves pain and sorrow or other 'unpleasant' things, you can't really divulge about it or you'll just get brushed off, judged, and/or attacked. Either that or you get the comparison game; that is if somebody else has it worse off, your problems and life are inferior as a result, and basically don't matter cause somebody else has it worse off. You're supposed to be able to confide in the body of Christ; the Bible says to bare one another's burdens and to mourn when another mourns. However, it's like it's taboo to do this if it's not nice and/or happy with the experiences I've had in regards to this. I have a lot of flaws and am far from perfect; I have loads of issues, I'm not denying this. However, I don't act like this; yes I struggle with sins and have my weak spots but this isn't an area I have problems with; I am not being arrogant and/or conceited I am merely being honest.

*Not helping in tangible ways. I truly understand that Christians and people in general have their own lives and problems. However it frustrates me when a Christian asks 'how can I help' and 90% of the time, the answer is a.why don't you try 'x, y, and z' (i.e. offer advice) or b.I'll pray for you. There is nothing wrong with either of these, and I understand how important prayer is; I'm not mitigating the importance of prayer. However there are times when these things, just quite frankly, aren't enough. This is merely a hypothetical situation but if a person has to choose between paying for groceries and paying rent cause they don't have enough money to do either, then saying 'I'll pray for you' or offering advice isn't going to help; the person needs help in a real and realistic way. If you're not helping a person the way the person or persons need help, or you're not even attempting to help them in a real way, you're not helping them. I don't mean to come off as harsh and/or rude with the last statement, that is not my intent at all, and I apologize if it comes off that way, but it's true.


*Superficial love. I don't expect Christians to be perfect at all with love; I get how selfish and flawed human love is. However I've encountered this attitude of 'I'll help you if you act and think like x y and z, if you don't think and act like how I want you to, you don't deserve my time, help, love attention'. This makes my blood boil; to me acting like that is just pure arrogance. I don't expect perfect love, as stated above. However we are supposed to emulate the love of Christ, and would Christ act like that with love?! No, he wouldn't and that is what makes me so angry about it. On top of that the only thing I really expect with love, is I just 'expect' Christians to make an effort with loving how Christ does, I get accused of having unrealistic expectations and/or 'I'm judging them'. This infuriates me, because that is essentially what Christ wants us to do, is to make an effort to love like he does; when a pastor says this, or it's in a Bible study it's fine. However, if I address it, then I get attacked or treated like dung for having the audacity to do so.

In conclusion I addressed these issues cause they are all what I see as major issues in the church. Most Christians don't seem willing to address them because it seems that not offending people, is more important. I am addressing them because very few others are willing to do so. They think that by treating them like they don't exist it will just make them go away; in reality it's just going to make these problems worse. I get the church is full of flawed and broken people, I truly do. However I don't even see the contemporary church even making an attempt to address these issues, which is what angers and hurts me.

I am tired of being treated like I don't exist; to me it seems like I don't matter at all. The reasons above are why I am reluctant to go to church. The previous church I was in has left a very sour taste in my mouth. I am reluctant to go to a new church, because real friendships and real fellowship seems impossible based on the experiences I've had with the other church I went to.
 

graceandpeace

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DISCLAIMER: I am not blaming or judging anybody; all I am doing is being honest based on my past experiences from my own life in regards to my experience with mainstream Christian culture and going to church. I am not making generalizations because again, I am speaking from past experience in my own life in regards to going to church and the experiences I've had with mainstream Christian culture. This is preemptive and here for the sake of clarification in regards to the post that follows.

I have relocated to a new state, so I'm basically 'starting from scratch' for lack of a better term, because it's a new area that I have recently relocated to, so I'm not established yet (in regards to finding a church, making friendships, social networks/support systems, etc.)

I realize and understand how important it is to go to church in regards to your walk with God and relationship with Him. However I have become so disgusted and fed up with mainstream Christian culture, that I see no point in doing so. I managed to find a church where I used to live; initially when I was looking for a church where I used to live, I was looking for a church that reminded me of the church I went to beforehand, because I loved that church, so I thought it was what I was looking for. I didn't realize until I attended the church, that the longer I attended it the more frustrated, sad, and angry I became attending it. I didn't realize this was how I felt in general with it, until I relocated and stopped attending. I am not saying it was all bad; I developed some 'friendships' there, but even with those friendships and 'fellowship' with the interaction I had with these friends, I was still frustrated (I will extrapolate on this later in the post)

The reasons I see no point in going to a new church and why I am fed up with mainstream contemporary Christian culture as a whole are....

*I heard incessantly in my old church how important it was to do your walk with God together and do life together in regards to fellowship. However fellowship only happened with church-oriented events (church on Sundays and occasional church functions) and at weekly small group (i.e. a Bible study that also included prayer); fellowship in real life outside of church-related stuff was non-existent. I think fellowship should start from these things, but I don't believe it should only be relegated to church-related stuff; I think it should start there, and branch out from there into real life.

*One-sided friendships. As said before, in the church I previously attended where I used to live before I relocated, I developed some 'friendships'. However it was extremely frustrating to me because I basically ended up doing all the work in them. I was the one always initiating with contact, and if I didn't initiate with contact, I never heard from them. I thought real friendships were supposed to be a two-way street, where the other friend also reciprocated with initiating with contact; however I never saw this happening. Different people feel loved in different ways and to me, if you can't take 5 minutes out your schedule to initiate with contact, then I don't think you care about me as a person or my life. Yes, I realize that people are busy and have their own lives; however I am not asking for the friendship I have with them to completely monopolize their lives. If they made a semi-consistent effort with initiating with communicating that would suffice for me; however I didn't even see them doing that much. Yet at the same time it frustrates me, when I hear 'well people are busy they have other priorities'; to me that is just an excuse to be complacent because if a friendship matters to you and you claim to care about the person like you say you do, you're going to make time for them, make time for the friendship, and at least attempt to make an effort.

*Mainstream Christian culture and contemporary Christian churches are monopolized by married couples and/or married Christians with families. By this I mean, the church caters to married couples and/or those with families. There are tons of resources and programs targeted specifically for them; there are a myriad of sermons preached that are geared towards this audience. It's great if you fall under either of these 'categories' (for lack of a better term), however if you're single it sucks. At the church I went to, they catered exclusively to married couples and/or those with families; there was nothing for singles. So it basically seemed like I was being treated as invisible because I was single, and was being marginalized because I wasn't married. Even in churches that do have programs for singles, I still sense this attitude of and stigma towards being single from the church as a whole. By this I mean, I have received the attitude/perspective of (in regards to Christians having married couples) 'well they are busy and have other priorities, so yes you'll be on the back burner'. To me, whether intentional or not, it basically comes off as 'you're single, so you don't deserve my time and you don't matter' essentially it comes off as being slighted. This is extremely frustrating to me, because it basically comes off as, you don't matter and are inferior cause you're single. Shortly before I relocated (it was the last time I attended the church before I moved) my church announced they were starting a new ministry, and of course, it was geared towards families. I don't have a problem with support systems/ministry for married Christians and/or Christians with families. However, when all the programs being developed are exclusively geared towards that audience, it is very frustrating, and aggravates me; namely because it's like singles are marginalized and their needs aren't acknowledged and/or there is this attitude that because they're singles they don't have needs. If it is acknowledged by the mainstream Christian culture and the contemporary Christian church, quite frankly I don't see anything really being done to address those needs.

*Selfish serving. I received help from Christians from the small group I went to; I was grateful for it and appreciated it. I am not denying that they helped me and served me; I am acknowledging this plain-as-day. However, despite them helping me, I still only saw it happening when it was convenient for them. I've seen incessantly in the church this attitude of 'just take a few hours out of your schedule to serve' and it seems the majority of the time, that Christians only seem to serve when it's convenient for them; I'll serve you if it doesn't interfere with my schedule, my life and/or my priorities. This is very frustrating to me, because if that is how you're going to serve, why bother doing so? Real serving and real ministry a lot of times will require sacrifice, so if you're going to be that selfish about doing so, it completely defeats the purpose of serving in the first place. What makes it even more irritating is half the time it gets flipped back on me; they just assume I serve like that too, or that because I choose to be discreet and not divulge on how I've served, it means I haven't at all. I am not perfect by any means; however the majority of the time when I have served, it wasn't convenient for me and when I served, I did so when it was difficult for me. I am not being conceited when I say this, I am just being in honest. Another thing I've noticed with serving is this philosophy of 'serve doing what you like, where your passions are'. On the one hand I can understand serving using the natural abilities and gifts God has given you, because you will naturally be more effective in serving; there is also nothing inherently wrong with serving and enjoying doing so because it utilizes doing stuff you enjoy. However on the other hand, it comes off as 'if you don't enjoy doing it, you shouldn't serve that way'; that is extremely frustrating to me and very selfish and shallow way of serving because a lot of the time you're not going to get to serve how you want, and you're not going to get to serve how you want, because serving requires sacrifice, and what I just described are ways of sacrifice with serving.

*Being judged and attacked for being real about your problems. By this I mean, I've had it happen incessantly of Christians think or notice something is wrong, so they ask what is wrong. Then you tell them, and because it's not happy and nice like they want to hear, you get accused of whining/complaining and/or being negative if when you describe the problems it is pain, sorrow, and/or frustration. So it's like if you are real about your life and it involves pain and sorrow or other 'unpleasant' things, you can't really divulge about it or you'll just get brushed off, judged, and/or attacked. Either that or you get the comparison game; that is if somebody else has it worse off, your problems and life are inferior as a result, and basically don't matter cause somebody else has it worse off. You're supposed to be able to confide in the body of Christ; the Bible says to bare one another's burdens and to mourn when another mourns. However, it's like it's taboo to do this if it's not nice and/or happy with the experiences I've had in regards to this. I have a lot of flaws and am far from perfect; I have loads of issues, I'm not denying this. However, I don't act like this; yes I struggle with sins and have my weak spots but this isn't an area I have problems with; I am not being arrogant and/or conceited I am merely being honest.

*Not helping in tangible ways. I truly understand that Christians and people in general have their own lives and problems. However it frustrates me when a Christian asks 'how can I help' and 90% of the time, the answer is a.why don't you try 'x, y, and z' (i.e. offer advice) or b.I'll pray for you. There is nothing wrong with either of these, and I understand how important prayer is; I'm not mitigating the importance of prayer. However there are times when these things, just quite frankly, aren't enough. This is merely a hypothetical situation but if a person has to choose between paying for groceries and paying rent cause they don't have enough money to do either, then saying 'I'll pray for you' or offering advice isn't going to help; the person needs help in a real and realistic way. If you're not helping a person the way the person or persons need help, or you're not even attempting to help them in a real way, you're not helping them. I don't mean to come off as harsh and/or rude with the last statement, that is not my intent at all, and I apologize if it comes off that way, but it's true.


*Superficial love. I don't expect Christians to be perfect at all with love; I get how selfish and flawed human love is. However I've encountered this attitude of 'I'll help you if you act and think like x y and z, if you don't think and act like how I want you to, you don't deserve my time, help, love attention'. This makes my blood boil; to me acting like that is just pure arrogance. I don't expect perfect love, as stated above. However we are supposed to emulate the love of Christ, and would Christ act like that with love?! No, he wouldn't and that is what makes me so angry about it. On top of that the only thing I really expect with love, is I just 'expect' Christians to make an effort with loving how Christ does, I get accused of having unrealistic expectations and/or 'I'm judging them'. This infuriates me, because that is essentially what Christ wants us to do, is to make an effort to love like he does; when a pastor says this, or it's in a Bible study it's fine. However, if I address it, then I get attacked or treated like dung for having the audacity to do so.

In conclusion I addressed these issues cause they are all what I see as major issues in the church. Most Christians don't seem willing to address them because it seems that not offending people, is more important. I am addressing them because very few others are willing to do so. They think that by treating them like they don't exist it will just make them go away; in reality it's just going to make these problems worse. I get the church is full of flawed and broken people, I truly do. However I don't even see the contemporary church even making an attempt to address these issues, which is what angers and hurts me.

I am tired of being treated like I don't exist; to me it seems like I don't matter at all. The reasons above are why I am reluctant to go to church. The previous church I was in has left a very sour taste in my mouth. I am reluctant to go to a new church, because real friendships and real fellowship seems impossible based on the experiences I've had with the other church I went to.

I'm sorry to hear of your experience.

I am not going to weigh in on issues revolving around personal relationships or service to others, as I am reluctant to judge motives, especially of those I don't know. However, I do share some of your criticisms about what I can only assume is the conservative-evangelical movement.

Most of the criticisms I have deal with theological issues, though I also understand how the culture for worship or relationships can be lacking authenticity.

Figuring out relationships will have to be dealt with on a congregation by congregation basis, but have you considered looking into different types of churches?

Personally, coming from an evangelical-associated background, finding my way into the Episcopal Church was like finding the air to breathe again.

There are other churches I could probably be okay with, too - probably other Mainline churches with liturgical worship. Perhaps this could be an option for you, too.
 
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Albion

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DISCLAIMER: I am not blaming or judging anybody; all I am doing is being honest based on my past experiences from my own life in regards to my experience with mainstream Christian culture and going to church. I am not making generalizations because again, I am speaking from past experience in my own life in regards to going to church and the experiences I've had with mainstream Christian culture. This is preemptive and here for the sake of clarification in regards to the post that follows.

I have relocated to a new state, so I'm basically 'starting from scratch' for lack of a better term, because it's a new area that I have recently relocated to, so I'm not established yet (in regards to finding a church, making friendships, social networks/support systems, etc.)

I realize and understand how important it is to go to church in regards to your walk with God and relationship with Him. However I have become so disgusted and fed up with mainstream Christian culture, that I see no point in doing so. I managed to find a church where I used to live; initially when I was looking for a church where I used to live, I was looking for a church that reminded me of the church I went to beforehand, because I loved that church, so I thought it was what I was looking for. I didn't realize until I attended the church, that the longer I attended it the more frustrated, sad, and angry I became attending it. I didn't realize this was how I felt in general with it, until I relocated and stopped attending. I am not saying it was all bad; I developed some 'friendships' there, but even with those friendships and 'fellowship' with the interaction I had with these friends, I was still frustrated (I will extrapolate on this later in the post)

The reasons I see no point in going to a new church and why I am fed up with mainstream contemporary Christian culture as a whole are....

*I heard incessantly in my old church how important it was to do your walk with God together and do life together in regards to fellowship. However fellowship only happened with church-oriented events (church on Sundays and occasional church functions) and at weekly small group (i.e. a Bible study that also included prayer); fellowship in real life outside of church-related stuff was non-existent. I think fellowship should start from these things, but I don't believe it should only be relegated to church-related stuff; I think it should start there, and branch out from there into real life.

*One-sided friendships. As said before, in the church I previously attended where I used to live before I relocated, I developed some 'friendships'. However it was extremely frustrating to me because I basically ended up doing all the work in them. I was the one always initiating with contact, and if I didn't initiate with contact, I never heard from them. I thought real friendships were supposed to be a two-way street, where the other friend also reciprocated with initiating with contact; however I never saw this happening. Different people feel loved in different ways and to me, if you can't take 5 minutes out your schedule to initiate with contact, then I don't think you care about me as a person or my life. Yes, I realize that people are busy and have their own lives; however I am not asking for the friendship I have with them to completely monopolize their lives. If they made a semi-consistent effort with initiating with communicating that would suffice for me; however I didn't even see them doing that much. Yet at the same time it frustrates me, when I hear 'well people are busy they have other priorities'; to me that is just an excuse to be complacent because if a friendship matters to you and you claim to care about the person like you say you do, you're going to make time for them, make time for the friendship, and at least attempt to make an effort.

*Mainstream Christian culture and contemporary Christian churches are monopolized by married couples and/or married Christians with families. By this I mean, the church caters to married couples and/or those with families. There are tons of resources and programs targeted specifically for them; there are a myriad of sermons preached that are geared towards this audience. It's great if you fall under either of these 'categories' (for lack of a better term), however if you're single it sucks. At the church I went to, they catered exclusively to married couples and/or those with families; there was nothing for singles. So it basically seemed like I was being treated as invisible because I was single, and was being marginalized because I wasn't married. Even in churches that do have programs for singles, I still sense this attitude of and stigma towards being single from the church as a whole. By this I mean, I have received the attitude/perspective of (in regards to Christians having married couples) 'well they are busy and have other priorities, so yes you'll be on the back burner'. To me, whether intentional or not, it basically comes off as 'you're single, so you don't deserve my time and you don't matter' essentially it comes off as being slighted. This is extremely frustrating to me, because it basically comes off as, you don't matter and are inferior cause you're single. Shortly before I relocated (it was the last time I attended the church before I moved) my church announced they were starting a new ministry, and of course, it was geared towards families. I don't have a problem with support systems/ministry for married Christians and/or Christians with families. However, when all the programs being developed are exclusively geared towards that audience, it is very frustrating, and aggravates me; namely because it's like singles are marginalized and their needs aren't acknowledged and/or there is this attitude that because they're singles they don't have needs. If it is acknowledged by the mainstream Christian culture and the contemporary Christian church, quite frankly I don't see anything really being done to address those needs.

*Selfish serving. I received help from Christians from the small group I went to; I was grateful for it and appreciated it. I am not denying that they helped me and served me; I am acknowledging this plain-as-day. However, despite them helping me, I still only saw it happening when it was convenient for them. I've seen incessantly in the church this attitude of 'just take a few hours out of your schedule to serve' and it seems the majority of the time, that Christians only seem to serve when it's convenient for them; I'll serve you if it doesn't interfere with my schedule, my life and/or my priorities. This is very frustrating to me, because if that is how you're going to serve, why bother doing so? Real serving and real ministry a lot of times will require sacrifice, so if you're going to be that selfish about doing so, it completely defeats the purpose of serving in the first place. What makes it even more irritating is half the time it gets flipped back on me; they just assume I serve like that too, or that because I choose to be discreet and not divulge on how I've served, it means I haven't at all. I am not perfect by any means; however the majority of the time when I have served, it wasn't convenient for me and when I served, I did so when it was difficult for me. I am not being conceited when I say this, I am just being in honest. Another thing I've noticed with serving is this philosophy of 'serve doing what you like, where your passions are'. On the one hand I can understand serving using the natural abilities and gifts God has given you, because you will naturally be more effective in serving; there is also nothing inherently wrong with serving and enjoying doing so because it utilizes doing stuff you enjoy. However on the other hand, it comes off as 'if you don't enjoy doing it, you shouldn't serve that way'; that is extremely frustrating to me and very selfish and shallow way of serving because a lot of the time you're not going to get to serve how you want, and you're not going to get to serve how you want, because serving requires sacrifice, and what I just described are ways of sacrifice with serving.

*Being judged and attacked for being real about your problems. By this I mean, I've had it happen incessantly of Christians think or notice something is wrong, so they ask what is wrong. Then you tell them, and because it's not happy and nice like they want to hear, you get accused of whining/complaining and/or being negative if when you describe the problems it is pain, sorrow, and/or frustration. So it's like if you are real about your life and it involves pain and sorrow or other 'unpleasant' things, you can't really divulge about it or you'll just get brushed off, judged, and/or attacked. Either that or you get the comparison game; that is if somebody else has it worse off, your problems and life are inferior as a result, and basically don't matter cause somebody else has it worse off. You're supposed to be able to confide in the body of Christ; the Bible says to bare one another's burdens and to mourn when another mourns. However, it's like it's taboo to do this if it's not nice and/or happy with the experiences I've had in regards to this. I have a lot of flaws and am far from perfect; I have loads of issues, I'm not denying this. However, I don't act like this; yes I struggle with sins and have my weak spots but this isn't an area I have problems with; I am not being arrogant and/or conceited I am merely being honest.

*Not helping in tangible ways. I truly understand that Christians and people in general have their own lives and problems. However it frustrates me when a Christian asks 'how can I help' and 90% of the time, the answer is a.why don't you try 'x, y, and z' (i.e. offer advice) or b.I'll pray for you. There is nothing wrong with either of these, and I understand how important prayer is; I'm not mitigating the importance of prayer. However there are times when these things, just quite frankly, aren't enough. This is merely a hypothetical situation but if a person has to choose between paying for groceries and paying rent cause they don't have enough money to do either, then saying 'I'll pray for you' or offering advice isn't going to help; the person needs help in a real and realistic way. If you're not helping a person the way the person or persons need help, or you're not even attempting to help them in a real way, you're not helping them. I don't mean to come off as harsh and/or rude with the last statement, that is not my intent at all, and I apologize if it comes off that way, but it's true.


*Superficial love. I don't expect Christians to be perfect at all with love; I get how selfish and flawed human love is. However I've encountered this attitude of 'I'll help you if you act and think like x y and z, if you don't think and act like how I want you to, you don't deserve my time, help, love attention'. This makes my blood boil; to me acting like that is just pure arrogance. I don't expect perfect love, as stated above. However we are supposed to emulate the love of Christ, and would Christ act like that with love?! No, he wouldn't and that is what makes me so angry about it. On top of that the only thing I really expect with love, is I just 'expect' Christians to make an effort with loving how Christ does, I get accused of having unrealistic expectations and/or 'I'm judging them'. This infuriates me, because that is essentially what Christ wants us to do, is to make an effort to love like he does; when a pastor says this, or it's in a Bible study it's fine. However, if I address it, then I get attacked or treated like dung for having the audacity to do so.

In conclusion I addressed these issues cause they are all what I see as major issues in the church. Most Christians don't seem willing to address them because it seems that not offending people, is more important. I am addressing them because very few others are willing to do so. They think that by treating them like they don't exist it will just make them go away; in reality it's just going to make these problems worse. I get the church is full of flawed and broken people, I truly do. However I don't even see the contemporary church even making an attempt to address these issues, which is what angers and hurts me.

I am tired of being treated like I don't exist; to me it seems like I don't matter at all. The reasons above are why I am reluctant to go to church. The previous church I was in has left a very sour taste in my mouth. I am reluctant to go to a new church, because real friendships and real fellowship seems impossible based on the experiences I've had with the other church I went to.

While I appreciate the feelings of the many people who say that they've failed to find a church that meets their expectations, I can't sympathize with sweeping condemnations of Christianity, the Christian churches, "mainstream" Christianity, or etc.

That kind of thing is easy to do, but there is almost always a good "fit" out there if the person is willing to look for it. And, after all, isn't this important enough to justify making such a search?
 
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Eryk

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You have to do what is right for you. I would never give up on church entirely because corporate worship means too much to me. It's work, finding the right place, and then you have to find your place in that place.

And that is harder to do when you're a single person among so many marrieds. There are so many people not getting married now - the churches are in real trouble if they don't fully accept singleness. You never feel odd as a single until you step into a church. Not, a single person who is going to be married, but a happy single person who finds meaning in being single.

One of the major themes in conservative religion is patriarchy, the authority of the husband and father, and everyone in the family knowing their place. This is an essential part of the religion. Single people exempt themselves from this important project and conservatives don't know what to do with them.

The thing that matters most is your relationship with God and you don't need a church for that. Some call this heresy but it's not their business.
 
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Albion

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One of the major themes in conservative religion is patriarchy, the authority of the husband and father, and everyone in the family knowing their place. This is an essential part of the religion. Single people exempt themselves from this important project and conservatives don't know what to do with them.
Actually, it's not. And this may be part of the answer to this problem. If anyone goes forth to find a church, thinking he's looking for a college fraternity or country club, he's likely to find the people don't appreciate him adequately or are not welcoming enough or something else like that. In reality, the church does not exist only in order to give people friends or counseling.
 
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DreyDay

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OP, your initial message sounds like a rant based off emotion, and quite frankly I think you're over-reacting. Sure, some churches may indeed leave a bad taste in your mouth. You complain that relationships are not a one-way street and how you're putting in too much effort for them. From reading your for lack of better term "rambling" I honestly think the problem is you: you gotta develop yourself and build charisma, otherwise you're going to let people walk all over you. You need to learn to set boundaries, stop relying on others to be happy, and never be a social parasite.

The whole singles thing, I get it. I'm single too and understand that many churches do cater excessively to married couples and childcare. The question is what are you going to do about it? Start a small group of your own, not even necessarily at church but maybe try Meetup.com, where you can start your own custom-made group. Obviously you have a lot of passion for this topic, so I hope my suggestions can propel you onto a better trajectory.
 
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BFine

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I read your threads for quiet awhile, they reflect
the same things....you're not finding authentic
fellowship at the churches you've attended.

Consider looking for a church that has things for
singles to do...get plugged-in there too...even if you're
attending another church. It's good to have another
source to draw from if the place you're at doesn't offer
something for singles or there are few singles there.

Consider starting up something for singles.

As for Christians who can be available--
look for those who are overlooked... I've found
them....usually they are older, empty-nesters,
unmarried(don't have children or family/friends)...
some have some type of disability/special need...
they still need a friend!

You can connect with many of the above at events
for the disabled (wheelchair sports for example) --
we got involved with that due to my husband's workplace
accident that cost him his left leg.

He is regularly involved in wheelchair sports... get this,
you don't have to be disabled to participate...so I'm involved
with that also!
The guy that taught my husband tennis, wasn't even disabled, we didn't know it until he got up out of the wheelchair!
 
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turkle

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If you look at your post history on this site, you will find that most every post you've made is to complain about how Christians are terrible and they never meet your expectations. You find it necessary to start many posts with "disclaimers" and "note" saying that you are not being judgmental, and then you go on for paragraph after paragraph judging....all in the name of "honesty".

I've asked you this question many times before and you have never answered: What kind of advice are you seeking here?

You mention somewhere in your long diatribe that people don't seek you out, that they accuse you of complaining. You say you're not complaining, you're "just being honest". I have never seen a post by you that doesn't complain, so I can only surmise that in real life you are also a complainer. Here's the thing... NOBODY wants to be around a complainer. It is tiresome and unpleasant. Nobody owes you friendship just because you are there. You earn friendship by being kind and interested and pleasant to be around.

There's an old saying, "no matter where you go, there you are", meaning that as long as you are critical and complaining, it doesn't matter what church, what city or what state you go to...people will avoid you because it's exhausting to be around a complainer.

Ask God to heal you. Humble yourself before the Lord and ask Him to transform you into a person that can serve and love people just the way they are. Otherwise, to coin another old saying, "if you keep doing what you've always done, you're going to get what you've always gotten."

I strongly encourage you to ask your church for a mature woman to mentor you. One who will love you through it honestly.

Historically after people tell you what I just told you (and you've been told lots of times) you get defensive (all while saying you're not defensive) and give a hostile response. I encourage you to look at it differently this time. Instead of getting defensive, humbly ask God to seek out all the pain in your heart and heal it, replacing it with the heart of Jesus.

If you choose to do what you've always done, the results will be the same. It's all up to you.
 
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aiki

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I am tired of being treated like I don't exist; to me it seems like I don't matter at all. The reasons above are why I am reluctant to go to church. The previous church I was in has left a very sour taste in my mouth. I am reluctant to go to a new church, because real friendships and real fellowship seems impossible based on the experiences I've had with the other church I went to.

Matthew 16:24
24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8
4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;
5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;
6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails....

Galatians 2:20
20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Colossians 3:1-3
1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.
2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

Selah.
 
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paul1149

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Please read @turkle 's post. She has responded with insight and understanding.

I read much of your post, and would not argue with a word of it. The situation is what it is, and it's best to start by accepting that truth. I have, in fact, experienced much of the same thing.

The problem is that we can spend an awful lot of time fixated on the way things are. That, in fact, is the passive default. Life impresses its broken, evil self deeply on us, and it's not uncommon for people to take their wounds to their grave. You can analyze till the cows come home and it is not going to change a thing. It's called analysis paralysis. Complaining – whether it's called that or not – never changes a thing, unless it leads to appropriate constructive action.

God offers a better way. Through the Cross we can forgive the past, thereby ending its hold on us, and through the Resurrection we can move forward into newness of life. But it's not an automatic process. “Blessed are they that overcome” (x7 in Rev 2,3). Change requires effort – directed effort. In Php 3 Paul says he singlemindedly puts the past behind him and presses forward to the mark of the prize of the high call of God in Christ Jesus. He sets a mark and goes for it, so that he can win the prize of a higher calling. That takes seeking God and taking obedient action. Often doing that will take us out of our comfort zone. That is why God gave us the Comforter.

If you look at the lives of the greatest saints, they often were placed in unhappy situations. Both Joseph and David were alienated from their brothers. But God never abandoned them. He forged wisdom into the soul of Joseph in the furnace of his rejection, and in his many lonely hours David developed a breathtakingly beautiful relationship with the Lord that we still marvel at 3000 years later. Their experiences would serve them well when it came time for God to elevate them, because they did not disdain the Lord's correction or lose heart (Heb 12.5-6), but remained faithful in the hidden places.

I will repeat what I wrote in my first post to you years ago. Your screen name is prophetic. God has given you music as a gift. If you will get your focus off your brothers' many limitations and failings, and place it instead on exalting the Lord through your music, you will awaken your slumbering spirit and become a leader in directing others to the Lord. That is the purpose of music. Relatively few understand that. And the ones who have been called to actually lead in it are often first tested themselves, so that they will be fully equipped to lead others out of their fleshly strongholds and into the glorious freedom of the sons of God.

Don’t shrink back from that calling, sister. Strengthen the weak knees, that you may be healed. You have an important role to play in the Body. God is faithful, and He knows exactly what He's doing.
 
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Joined2krist

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Go to Church because you love God and you want to worship him in fellowship with other Brethrens. Don't go to Church and expect to meet angels and saints in human form because we are not infallible, people will make mistakes in the way they treat others, look for a Church that focuses on singles if you want to, but attend Church to enjoy the presence of God in his temple.
 
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Demetrius194

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I hear you, but I still try to go to church no matter what, and try another church if the church I go to starts to become too heavy of a burden to bear. I believe we gotta meet with believers on Sunday for fellowship and Lord's supper, as Christ warned that those who do not gather with Him (and we are a part of Christ -- we are His body) shall be scattered (Matthew 12:30). I know there is always someone to say: that's not what this verse means, and fine, let them in their conscience be of so assured (Romans 14:5; Romans 14:14), but as for me, I choose to not be judged by their conscience at least in this matter (1 Corinthians 4:3).

Yes, it sucks, but if you do see in it the value that I do, it's just being pragmatic. Why let these things down your spiritual profit in the matter? Don't we to love God more than men?

(And yes, the things you mentioned are excellent to strive towards!)
 
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