I really need help,I’m having a crisis.

[sold4christ25]

Hey everyone,

It's been a while since I've been on here. Having a major crisis and need some insight. This is probably gonna be along post - sorry in advance but thanks in advance if you read through it and are able to shed some insight.

Mari17, I've read many of your insights over the past few years and I really appreciate what you have to say regarding ocd and intrusive thoughts and feelings and am grateful to your commitment to helping us who have or wrestle with it in general.

My current situation feels different/spiritual and im not sure how to get through this but I'll try to fill you guys in as much as possible.

Alot of it has to do with similar discussions posted here regarding willful sinning/backsliding and ocd combo. There was a thread with annroberts a few years ago that seemed spot on to what I'm going to describe and was very encouraging about 2 years back but since then I'm not sure if it helps and I feel deeper in a pit of despair.

So here's my story/situation in a nutshell: born in a Christian family, went to Sunday school etc...grew up knowing god/Jesus but didn't have what I believe was a true conversion experience until after high school. High school was partying, drugs, etc....fast forward to college and returning to studying the bible and truly committing to christ for first time around age of 21 being baptized and all....but there was some legalism in my church as well my own understanding of christ to the point where it took many years later of sinning and confessing and feelings of condemnation before I came to grips with the understanding that only christ blood saves and not how well we walk in christ and or follow ( but with the understanding that we can't go on sinning all we want)...( do thus started a other journey of now feeling like I truly had christ because my understandingwas in the depth of his love Nad forgivenessand blood shed for me but again in those years there was periods of sin backsliding confessing returning to ask for forgiveness etc.... came to understand that even confessing our sins can be legalistic if we think the act of confession saves us...what I mean to say is I feel like God finally gave me a clear understanding of what saves...which is christ and his blood shed for me and not how much I fall etc.....but knowing this and still sinning is where all starts to go haywire and the stranger sensations of depression ocd and satanic oppression felt comingled ...to the point it feels like the experience of depression, ocd and whatever else is a spiritual/god abandonment issue and not a disease ( I understand the whole discussion of how ocd makes us feel like it's really us and not the disease)....but it all still feels like I'm moving towards doubt and finally apostasy....which is what willful sinning I'm sure can eventually lead to...

Now to bring all of this to current times, the last few months to years has been a consistent falling into sin ( inappropriate content to be exact but occasionally drunkenness- I don't believe If drinking is a sin but drunkenness is but that a different discussion. And there have been moments of lying and also confusion over whether I've sinned willfully by breaking speed limits and my obsessions can revolve around other strange sins where the despair and Satan's attacks and the confusion over whether I'm willfully sinning vs accidental sinning can drive me insane and has been doing so. I have also compulsively searched many forums on chrstian forums regarding ocd, depression, derealization, backsliding and ocd, intrusive feelings and thoughts, all this has done even though there are moments of relief and closure and hope it stills leads back to strange sensations, pain, and rumination and despair and feeling sof condemnation and time travel ( constantly reviewing my past willful sins and trying to solve whether it was willful or not ) etc...

But recently ( about 2 weeks ago is where it got even worse ). Let me explain. So there were again some falls into sin over the past few months even after there were moments of reading other backsliding stories of hope where a saved Christian fell back into long period of willful sinning lifestyle and then came back to christ and regained hope and truth and feeling hope. Each time after sinning obviously satan comes along with the accusations, thoughts of condemnation and rejection by God and or accusation of me feeling like I've hardened my heart but where it gets worse is when these constant attacks as well as the pain that my brain feel from ruminations cause me to get angry at God.....and these past few months it's gotten to the point that I've even said in my mind that " I f**ng hate you" and it felt like I really meant it. Not intrusive. And more so about a week ago I even had this strange feeling of rejecting christ ( true apostasy) out of being so fed up with condemnation and ruminating over whether I've fallen away that it finally drove me to rejecting his sacrifice....this felt so real like it was from me that now all I do is try to look back to that moment again to recreate what I said or felt and analyze whether it was truly meant or not...( I understand this is classic ocd behavior ) but the strange buzz and pain in my head that come from trying to ruminate and analyze this past action also feels like a punishment of hell descending on me as if I've transcended into real apostasy and separation from god and the pain of rumination confirms it.

So my questions are:
1. Has anyone perceived the torment they feel from the ocd ruminations and paralysis of analysis as a spiritual place of actually being separated from God like it's a punishment and not a by product of the disease ( so strange , how can a proffesing christian who claims they've been saved from hell through christ actually now feel like or be in hell)?

It's strange cause when the depression and pain from my head swirling in analysis and ocd and past reliving is perceived as a torment ( not in the case of Paul's torment- although I've tried to attribute that perspective into what I'm feeling ) but when I look back at the past I can't help but feel more despair and then continue to perceive the despair as the consequence of the sin and or the hatred feeling at God.

2. Has any had this experience of willful sin and overanalysis feelings of condemnation and feel like your stuck in some permanent hell and everyday the rumination persists it strangely feel like another layer of torment punishment which gets perceived as a trap that cannot be escaped out of thereby validating and confirming your separation from god and true apostasy thereby experiencing strange psychological hologram disturbance that are so tormenting?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

It's so hard to see all this as intrusive thoughts or ocd when the anger and feelings of rejecting christ stem from real feelings of bitterness at Satan's condemnation.

Now I understand that he is the father of lies and that a Christian and ocd sufferer can wrongly perceive Satan's lies as truths coming from God ( and God can still forgive that ) but it suck when in a moment of not being to handle all the feelings of despair and condemnation as well as the frustration from not being able to control our own ruminating leads to a real geeling of hatred or anger at god and a feeling of truly rejecting christ as the means of salvation ( it felt so real - that I did not want that salvation or care for it) now I can't stop ruminating on that event. And it feel like this new rumination of that moment of rejecting christ is still coming up everyday and will never go away.

Did I truly reject him because of my persistence in willful sin. At what point did it start being willful as opposed to just normal falls? Am I overthinking this? When will the pain of rumination stop?

Any help or advise would be great

 

[Mari17]

Hey everyone,

It's been a while since I've been on here. Having a major crisis and need some insight. This is probably gonna be along post - sorry in advance but thanks in advance if you read through it and are able to shed some insight.

Mari17, I've read many of your insights over the past few years and I really appreciate what you have to say regarding ocd and intrusive thoughts and feelings and am grateful to your commitment to helping us who have or wrestle with it in general.

My current situation feels different/spiritual and im not sure how to get through this but I'll try to fill you guys in as much as possible.

Alot of it has to do with similar discussions posted here regarding willful sinning/backsliding and ocd combo. There was a thread with annroberts a few years ago that seemed spot on to what I'm going to describe and was very encouraging about 2 years back but since then I'm not sure if it helps and I feel deeper in a pit of despair.

So here's my story/situation in a nutshell: born in a Christian family, went to Sunday school etc...grew up knowing god/Jesus but didn't have what I believe was a true conversion experience until after high school. High school was partying, drugs, etc....fast forward to college and returning to studying the bible and truly committing to christ for first time around age of 21 being baptized and all....but there was some legalism in my church as well my own understanding of christ to the point where it took many years later of sinning and confessing and feelings of condemnation before I came to grips with the understanding that only christ blood saves and not how well we walk in christ and or follow ( but with the understanding that we can't go on sinning all we want)...( do thus started a other journey of now feeling like I truly had christ because my understandingwas in the depth of his love Nad forgivenessand blood shed for me but again in those years there was periods of sin backsliding confessing returning to ask for forgiveness etc.... came to understand that even confessing our sins can be legalistic if we think the act of confession saves us...what I mean to say is I feel like God finally gave me a clear understanding of what saves...which is christ and his blood shed for me and not how much I fall etc.....but knowing this and still sinning is where all starts to go haywire and the stranger sensations of depression ocd and satanic oppression felt comingled ...to the point it feels like the experience of depression, ocd and whatever else is a spiritual/god abandonment issue and not a disease ( I understand the whole discussion of how ocd makes us feel like it's really us and not the disease)....but it all still feels like I'm moving towards doubt and finally apostasy....which is what willful sinning I'm sure can eventually lead to...

Now to bring all of this to current times, the last few months to years has been a consistent falling into sin ( inappropriate content to be exact but occasionally drunkenness- I don't believe If drinking is a sin but drunkenness is but that a different discussion. And there have been moments of lying and also confusion over whether I've sinned willfully by breaking speed limits and my obsessions can revolve around other strange sins where the despair and Satan's attacks and the confusion over whether I'm willfully sinning vs accidental sinning can drive me insane and has been doing so. I have also compulsively searched many forums on chrstian forums regarding ocd, depression, derealization, backsliding and ocd, intrusive feelings and thoughts, all this has done even though there are moments of relief and closure and hope it stills leads back to strange sensations, pain, and rumination and despair and feeling sof condemnation and time travel ( constantly reviewing my past willful sins and trying to solve whether it was willful or not ) etc...

But recently ( about 2 weeks ago is where it got even worse ). Let me explain. So there were again some falls into sin over the past few months even after there were moments of reading other backsliding stories of hope where a saved Christian fell back into long period of willful sinning lifestyle and then came back to christ and regained hope and truth and feeling hope. Each time after sinning obviously satan comes along with the accusations, thoughts of condemnation and rejection by God and or accusation of me feeling like I've hardened my heart but where it gets worse is when these constant attacks as well as the pain that my brain feel from ruminations cause me to get angry at God.....and these past few months it's gotten to the point that I've even said in my mind that " I f**ng hate you" and it felt like I really meant it. Not intrusive. And more so about a week ago I even had this strange feeling of rejecting christ ( true apostasy) out of being so fed up with condemnation and ruminating over whether I've fallen away that it finally drove me to rejecting his sacrifice....this felt so real like it was from me that now all I do is try to look back to that moment again to recreate what I said or felt and analyze whether it was truly meant or not...( I understand this is classic ocd behavior ) but the strange buzz and pain in my head that come from trying to ruminate and analyze this past action also feels like a punishment of hell descending on me as if I've transcended into real apostasy and separation from god and the pain of rumination confirms it.

So my questions are:
1. Has anyone perceived the torment they feel from the ocd ruminations and paralysis of analysis as a spiritual place of actually being separated from God like it's a punishment and not a by product of the disease ( so strange , how can a proffesing christian who claims they've been saved from hell through christ actually now feel like or be in hell)?

It's strange cause when the depression and pain from my head swirling in analysis and ocd and past reliving is perceived as a torment ( not in the case of Paul's torment- although I've tried to attribute that perspective into what I'm feeling ) but when I look back at the past I can't help but feel more despair and then continue to perceive the despair as the consequence of the sin and or the hatred feeling at God.

2. Has any had this experience of willful sin and overanalysis feelings of condemnation and feel like your stuck in some permanent hell and everyday the rumination persists it strangely feel like another layer of torment punishment which gets perceived as a trap that cannot be escaped out of thereby validating and confirming your separation from god and true apostasy thereby experiencing strange psychological hologram disturbance that are so tormenting?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

It's so hard to see all this as intrusive thoughts or ocd when the anger and feelings of rejecting christ stem from real feelings of bitterness at Satan's condemnation.

Now I understand that he is the father of lies and that a Christian and ocd sufferer can wrongly perceive Satan's lies as truths coming from God ( and God can still forgive that ) but it suck when in a moment of not being to handle all the feelings of despair and condemnation as well as the frustration from not being able to control our own ruminating leads to a real geeling of hatred or anger at god and a feeling of truly rejecting christ as the means of salvation ( it felt so real - that I did not want that salvation or care for it) now I can't stop ruminating on that event. And it feel like this new rumination of that moment of rejecting christ is still coming up everyday and will never go away.

Did I truly reject him because of my persistence in willful sin. At what point did it start being willful as opposed to just normal falls? Am I overthinking this? When will the pain of rumination stop?

Any help or advise would be great

Thank you for sharing your struggles! Also, thank you for your kind words regarding my comments. OCD can be such a strange and hard battle, and I really do want to keep growing in victory over it, as well as helping others keep stepping toward freedom and victory themselves.

I don't have comprehensive answers for everything you addressed, but I'll share some of my thoughts:
1. I see a lot of overanalyzing of your thoughts, feelings, and past thoughts and feelings. Extremely typical of OCD. You seem to have a very good perception of your OCD experiences, though, which is helpful.
2. The thing I often come back to when addressing this type of obsession is: What are your choices? OCD LOVES to have us go round and round about whether we thought or felt certain things, what those thoughts and feelings mean about us, and whether we are now doomed. The bottom line is that we probably won't ever figure out "for sure" exactly what those thoughts and feelings were, what they mean about us, and whether or not we're doomed by them. So what is our choice? Simply this: Are we going to choose to follow God from this moment onward, or not? Of course we want to have a secure, reassured feeling before we choose to go forward, but with OCD, that's not likely to happen, at least not very quickly. So we can sit and stew and wonder and worry and fill our time with unproductive ruminating, or we can move forward. I mean, even if you have committed willful sin, or something, are you going to throw away your future on the chance that God isn't going to forgive you? Isn't the far better choice to choose to follow God anyway, asking forgiveness, trusting in His mercy, and choosing to serve Him and love others?
Note that I'm not saying that you'll never feel reassurance. I believe that, in time, the OCD abates and we can start to feel a normal amount of assurance again. But I AM saying that regardless of what you've done in the past, or feel that you've done, your choices in the future are only two: follow God, or not. I highly recommend the first.

 

[sold4christ25]

Thanks again Mari17,

When you were going through it - did you also experience a numbing buzzing pain in your head while staring at the past event and trying to recreate it and ruminate trying to figure it out?

And did you perceive this pain associated with the rumination as a spirtual condition before concluding it was just ocd?

 

[Mari17]

Thanks again Mari17,

When you were going through it - did you also experience a numbing buzzing pain in your head while staring at the past event and trying to recreate it and ruminate trying to figure it out?

And did you perceive this pain associated with the rumination as a spirtual condition before concluding it was just ocd?

I didn't experience that, but that doesn't mean it's not a legitimate symptom of your OCD. OCD often wants us to find someone "just like us" in order to reassure us that we have OCD and not a 'real problem.' Perhaps that's what your OCD is doing in this case?

 

[sold4christ25]

Would it be safe to assume that ocd plays on our fears? For instance; regarding my feeling of getting to a point of rejecting Christ - when it comes to many of these forums regarding blasphemous thoughts and intrusive thoughts, apostasy or actual sinning willfully after salvation and the fear of losing one's salvation, 2 of the common themes you hear someone say is:

" I think its not one or many sins or thoughts but a more permanent rejection of Christ that makes one lose their salvation" and...

I think I'd your still here on these forums it means that you still care about your salvation and your heart isn't permanently hardened"

So do you think my ocd is playing on those fears to say " yep, see you got to a point where you hardened your heart and rejected christ and you don't even care about it" ?

Cause that's where I'm at with the ruminations.....and of course the thing that give this feeling that I did reject christ so much weight is actual real sinning over the past few months....to the point where my mind felt like I was angry at God for the condemnation Satan's was throwing at me....to the point where I felt like it was really me saying " forget Christ and this salvation" and now all I can i can do is ruminate and try to look back to see if I really didn't care about it either.....

So there is 2 types of rumination I'm experiencing. 1: the actual ( or hopefully intrusive thoughts and feelings of rejecting salvation that happened and 2: the rumination of looking back and seeing and trying to figure out if I actually didn't care when I did it......hence the questions above:

Does ocd try to play on the big fears of our faith to say " you rejected christ, and you actually don't care"?

 

[Mari17]

Would it be safe to assume that ocd plays on our fears? For instance; regarding my feeling of getting to a point of rejecting Christ - when it comes to many of these forums regarding blasphemous thoughts and intrusive thoughts, apostasy or actual sinning willfully after salvation and the fear of losing one's salvation, 2 of the common themes you hear someone say is:

" I think its not one or many sins or thoughts but a more permanent rejection of Christ that makes one lose their salvation" and...

I think I'd your still here on these forums it means that you still care about your salvation and your heart isn't permanently hardened"

So do you think my ocd is playing on those fears to say " yep, see you got to a point where you hardened your heart and rejected christ and you don't even care about it" ?

Cause that's where I'm at with the ruminations.....and of course the thing that give this feeling that I did reject christ so much weight is actual real sinning over the past few months....to the point where my mind felt like I was angry at God for the condemnation Satan's was throwing at me....to the point where I felt like it was really me saying " forget Christ and this salvation" and now all I can i can do is ruminate and try to look back to see if I really didn't care about it either.....

So there is 2 types of rumination I'm experiencing. 1: the actual ( or hopefully intrusive thoughts and feelings of rejecting salvation that happened and 2: the rumination of looking back and seeing and trying to figure out if I actually didn't care when I did it......hence the questions above:

Does ocd try to play on the big fears of our faith to say " you rejected christ, and you actually don't care"?

I think OCD always tries to find a new angle to bother us with. So, if you get reassured by getting one doubt or question answered, it promptly comes up with a new one. That's why forcing ourselves to step out of the rumination/reassurance cycle is one of the most powerful things we can do against the OCD.

Again, it still comes back to the practical choice: Regardless of what you've done/thought/felt in the past, what are you going to do from this moment forward?