But obedience is no where in that verse?
So this just proves my point that love and obedience are very different.
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But obedience is no where in that verse?Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
This says everything that needs to be said on the subject. I will waste no of my time.
Right. That's why Christ gives us the indwelling Holy Spirit.It’s sort of a catch-22. We are, indeed, obligated to love, and yet, while our knowing of the obligation gives us the proper goal, we can’t obey that obligation out of sheer willpower, on our own. We must have grace. And grace, God’s life, help, and guidance in us, intends to blossom into love, His own image. Then we love not out of obligation.
We love in order to be obedient, and yet we’re obedient only because we love.
It’s sort of a catch-22. We are, indeed, obligated to love, and yet, while our knowing of the obligation gives us the proper goal, we can’t obey that obligation out of sheer willpower, on our own. We must have grace. And grace, God’s life, help, and guidance in us, intends to blossom into love, His own image. Then we love not out of obligation.
We love in order to be obedient, and yet we’re obedient only because we love.
Oh, ok, sorry if you objected to my wording for some reason. We aren't forced to respond to grace in any case. And of course it all stems from Him.We love because He first loved us. When we are loved, then, and only then are we even capable of loving others.
Sin is selfishness. It's self-centeredness. The only way we are freed from it is by the gospel of Christ. Grace is far more than "God's help".
I am loved and accepted, therefore I obey.
I obey, therefore I am loved and accepted.
There are a few people here who are very active posting and starting threads that get the cart before the horse. In doing so, they proclaim another gospel, which is no gospel at all.
The order is the difference between life and death. Which is the correct statement?
Jesus came to save sinners, not the righteous.
Well, you are not quoting the entire verse
(Which sends an entirely different and wrong kind of message).
Here is the entire verse in what it says,
"I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."
(Luke 5:31).
For obviously even those believers who believe we should live holy and righteously in this life were once sinners who had repented of their sins. Jesus is not talking about how we will remain as sinners. Jesus said he calls sinners to repentance. How can we know what repentance looks like? Jesus defines repentance for us so we cannot change it into something we prefer. Jesus said, "The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonah" (Matthew 12:41).
If we were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, we would read this,
8 "But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
9 Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented of the disaster, that he had said that he would bring upon them; and he did it not."
(Jonah 3:8-10)
Did you catch what it said?
Verse 8 says - that the king of Nineveh declaring to his people to be covered in sackcloth, cry unto God mightlily unto God, and turn from their evil and wicked ways.
Verse 10 says - God saw their works and that they turned from their evil ways and God changed His plans in regards to the type of wrath that He was going to bring upon them.
This is all too clear that this is an example of repentance and the fruits thereof.
....
First, of all, your quoting of this verse to me (and offering no commentary) would be an insult. God's people are not to insult each other. Jesus could say this because He is God and He can read's people's thoughts and know what is in their hearts.You're straining gnats.
First, of all, your quoting of this verse to me (and offering no commentary) would be an insult. God's people are not to insult each other. Jesus could say this because He is God and He can read's people's thoughts and know what is in their hearts.
Second, quoting Matthew 23:24 does not help the Eternal Security Position but it actually refutes it. Jesus called the Pharisees here as hypocrites. A hypocrites is someone who says they do one thing and yet they do the exact opposite. The Eternal Security Proponent will say that we are to obey God's Laws, but he turns around and says he does not need to keep them so as to be right with God. Many Commands in Scripture came with great dire consequences to one's soul if they ignored in not keeping them. Matthew 6:15 says if we do not forgive, we will not be forgiven. Jesus says if we look upon a woman in lust, we are in danger of having our entire body be cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:27-30). John says no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15). John also says that all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire (Revelation 21:8).
Three, you really did not explain or counter debate the verses I mentioned on repentance in regards to Matthew 12:41 and Jonah chapter 3. If you are on the side of the truth, you will have no trouble explaining these verses using God's Word.
Your in for the long, bumpy, ride. Hang on buddy!How about you try to deal with what I have actually written instead of your own hobby horses. Okay Sparky?
Your in for the long, bumpy, ride. Hang on buddy!
The verse is talking about how the Pharisees were hypocrites (like I said). If you were to look at the verse before it talks about how they ignored the weightier matters of the Law like justice, mercy, and faith. In other words, they were being hypoctrical. They said that they believed God's Word but they actually ignored it. This is what the Eternal Security Proponent does when they say that we are to follow God's Laws and yet on the other hand they say that we do not actually to always keep those Laws, though. It is a type of faith that is hypocritical or two faced.How about you try to deal with what I have actually written instead of your own hobby horses. Okay Sparky?
The verse is talking about how the Pharisees were hypocrites (like I said). If you were to look at the verse before it talks about how they ignored the weightier matters of the Law like justice, mercy, and faith. In other words, they were being hypoctrical. They said that they believed God's Word but they actually ignored it. This is what the Eternal Security Proponent does when they say they that we are to follow God's Laws and yet they do not actually believe they have to always keep those Laws, though. It is a type of faith that is hypocritical or two faced.
I have been discussing OSAS for many years now. So this is not my first rodeo, either. But I can say that the more I discover verses that refute OSAS, and study how it effects people, the more I see OSAS as being a real problem in our country.It's not my first rodeo, or my first go around with Sparky.
There you go again trying to make it all about your little sacred cow. It was entertaining for a while, but now you're just being boring.
I have been discussing OSAS for many years now. So this is not my first rodeo, either. But I can say that the more I discover verses that refute OSAS, and study how it effects people, the more I see OSAS as being a real problem in our country.
If this is the kind of replies I am going to keep getting (with no actual discussion of the Bible in a kind and respectful manner, then there is no need to continue our discussion, my friend.
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