Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I agree,you believe what you believe in,and no one should tell you differentlyWell, apart from the theology of the debate, off topic, I do feel like it's kind of rude for these guys to burst in on your house and get into it with you.
Something similar happened to me when I was a baby Christian. A friend who moved out of state joined the Church of Christ and flew me to Colorado to visit her--knowing that her roommate planned to proselytize. I hadn't been baptized yet, and the roommate had me convinced that I wasn't saved and that all the Christians I knew who weren't members of their church weren't saved. It was horrible. It really shook me up!
I have never thought of the fact of God walking alone through the covenant of animal parts. This is good stuff and I will certainly show them this. Thank you very muchThese things almost always degenerate into a proof-text war. More electrons have been spent doing that than we can count, and I personally have developed a very sensitive and advanced detection and response mechanism to it - I simply skip the post, or the thread, or the forum, or the site, entirely, and I do it quickly.
AISI, the bottom line is that there is an obedience of faith that touches on both faith and works. It's generated by faith in God's goodness (thereby drawing us into God), not by the belief that we can save ourselves (which would lure our hearts away from Him), but it touches on works because it's something that we do. For instance, we all had to accept the free gift of life that Christ offered us.
Abraham had to prepare, and then defend from the birds of prey, the sacrifice that God then used in cutting the Abrahmic covenant. If Abraham hadn't done his part, there would have been no covenant. Does that give Abraham the right to boast about his works? In no way. How could that minimal effort compare to the salvation and promises God offered? It would be an insult to the Spirit of Grace and indeed it would show an insincere heart toward God. The proof of that is that God walked alone through the animal parts, rather than the customary both parties walking together, signifying that He was taking responsibility for fulfilling the promises solely upon Himself.
Paul and James, btw, are in perfect harmony on this. Paul never taught a cheap grace, he taught and modeled a complete and energetic consecration no matter the price. And in promoting works to complete our faith James was essentially giving us a reality-check, so that we weren't deluding ourselves with a dry intellectual assent rather than holding to a genuine obedient faith in God.
The problem, AISI, is that man takes the obedience of faith, which is necessarily baked into the salvation equation, and translates it into a religious regimen of works. Do this, don't do that. We are warned against this time and again, as in Col. 2. There is no end to the damage the religious spirit can do, and it is very easy to fall into. That is why we are warned so strongly to be on our guard against it.
For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. -Gal 5.1
We are in a constant scripture war and I do not like to be accused of being a heretic, They have thrown out some good stuff that I cannot deny, however they cannot see any other way than doing some fleshly works as mandatory to receive salvation .
John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
They keep saying see, You have to believe and that is a work too? This has been a drain on me.
My encounters with the COC was what prompted my own personal study of the scriptures.
I wanted to KNOW what the scriptures said ... and what they didn't. I was no longer satisfied with partial (or taught) knowledge.
You are correct, I do, and isn't it funny how at times like this is when everyone wants to debate and discuss things and ask hard questions. lol
I know they are trying to help me in their own minds, However I wish to help them, However I am out of ideas as to how too?
We cannot make people see spiritual things, that is what the Holy Spirit does.
I wish I were much smarter and could memorize the scriptures like they do, However with all I have had happen in last year, I can barely remember to put on my shoes before I leave home.
I even told them, This is not a good time for me ...
*Nods*. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree and just focus on loving each other. Some differences are irreconcilable, and debating endlessly is fruitless.I agree,you believe what you believe in,and no one should tell you differently
Scotty, you raise a good point. You *have* been through a heck of a lot this year. It is ok to simply disengage from this friend. A true friendship does not involve beating you over the head with selected Scripture verses 24/7.I wish I were much smarter and could memorize the scriptures like they do, However with all I have had happen in last year, I can barely remember to put on my shoes before I leave home.
I even told them, This is not a good time for me but they insist so I have been meeting with them here out of a loving heart because to be honest, I worry about their salvation.
I plead the Blood of Jesus as my sin atonement and they plead water as their cleansing agent.
It is stressful and confusing and God is not the Author of confusion
That is a great point that I had not considered hmmmmYou can always plant seeds ... as long as they continue with you.
But, remember that they are working according to a tried and tested process (to proselytize) ... which is quite cult-like in nature.
I later reflected on why they seemed to target believers ... as opposed to those without faith ...
See this is what bothers me about the whole situation. Its one thing for friends to have a friendly banter but considering the year you’ve had IMO I feel its inappropriate to bring in a heavy hitter and ultimately be called a heretic. I think you should put an end to the three way discussion and tell your friend exactly how you feel about it. If he loves you as much as you love him he will understand.I wish I were much smarter and could memorize the scriptures like they do, However with all I have had happen in last year, I can barely remember to put on my shoes before I leave home.
I even told them, This is not a good time for me but they insist so I have been meeting with them here out of a loving heart because to be honest, I worry about their salvation.
I plead the Blood of Jesus as my sin atonement and they plead water as their cleansing agent.
I have a dear friend
they have came here three times
Thanks guys.
I am seeking some additional responses to an ongoing problem at my house.
I have a dear friend that I love so much and he has always talked with me about his views being Church of Christ and we would always banter back and forth playfully as I am a grace by faith believer.
However he decided to bring over a Dr friend of his that has memorized a bunch of scripture {A bunch} and is very "book" smart and a COC minister and they started a debate over my doctrine.
He straight up told me that I was a heretic because I do not believe that works save us. [I do not]
he stated that they are biblically mandatory as Naaman had to dip 7 times in the Jordan etc.
This has turned into an all out battle of the scriptures as they have came here three times now and we have spent much time going back and forth.
I keep telling them [simply] that at the death of Jesus a new testament began and the apostle Paul is the apostle to the gentiles and he brought about the mystery of salvation by Grace through Faith, Which was what God wanted all along. Was faith.
I was taught this in school and I also believe it with all my heart.
I see Romans 6:3,4 as a 'spiritual' baptism and they see it as 'water'.
This is only the very beginning of it all as also I don't attend the "one" true "church of Christ" so I am damned lol
Can you guys give me BOTH sides here and let us rightly divide the Word as stated 2 Tim.
Again I do not want another hard debate, Just some different viewpoints to look at.
Thanks guys.
What bothers me is that I am not able to answer their questions as I would like and this really concerns me. It is causing me to take a look at scripture much deeper than ever before.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?