G
gonleigh
Guest
I hope i am in the right part of the forum, if not please move this thread to the correct place. I am talking a lot to a non-christian friend who is trying to prove that the Bible is a lie and it is a recycled religion. he sent me a document which contains 'proof' that the Bible is false. some of this document i have already pointed out that his arguments are not correct, but other parts i am unsure on how to reply. i will post the document, the bold paragraph is the answer i have given and the red bold are the sections i believe i know the answers. will you please check and amend what i have said and see what reply you would give to the other sections.
Bible errors
Jesus said the end of the world would be in his generation
Jesus is talking of signs that will happen before the end of the world to his disciples)
(Notice: Jesus probably thought the stars were little lights attached to a solid rotating sky dome like everyone else at that time)
(Mat 24:29 NRSV) "Immediately after the suffering of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; *the stars will fall from heaven*, and the powers of heaven will be shaken.
(Mat 24:30 NRSV) Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see 'the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven' with power and great glory.
(Jesus now says to his disciples that their generation will not pass away before the end of the world)
(Mat 24:34 NRSV) Truly I tell you, *this generation will not pass away* until all these things have taken place.
(Their generation did pass away, but the world didn't end)
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Jesus said that believers could handle snakes and drink poison
Jesus tells his disciples that those "who believe" can heal, handle snakes, cast demons out, speak in tongues, and drink poison.
(Mark 16:17-18 NRSV) And these signs will accompany those who believe: by using my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
they will pick up snakes in their hands, and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover."
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Problems with the Exodus story
The Exodus story is almost certainly a fabrication or at least extremely exaggerated.
The bible says 600,000 men (hopefully accompanied by an equal number of women), children, and a "mixed" crowd supposedly left Egypt.
(Exo 12:37-38 NRSV) The Israelites journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about *six hundred thousand men* on foot, besides children. A mixed crowd also went...
This is somewhere around 1.5 million people (more than live in the city of Dallas).
It is very unlikely that the Egyptians kept 1.5 million people enslaved, controlled, and fed.
It is also very unlikely that hundreds of thousands of Israelites wandered around on foot in a desert region with little food or water for 40 years after they left.
There is no record anywhere of Egypt ever enslaving the Israelites. There is no archaeological evidence to support the Israelites being in Egypt.
It is well established that the Egyptians themselves built all their cities and monuments during the off season (farming).
There is no record in Egypt of 1.5 million people suddenly getting up and leaving (The Egyptians were meticulous record keepers).
There is no archaeological evidence of anything more than a few scattered encampments in the wilderness where supposedly at least hundreds of thousands wandered and died in the bible.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus' primitive astronomy
Jesus was just a mortal man who had no special knowledge of modern cosmology. Here are some verses that indicate this:
(Jesus is talking about the end of the world) (Mat 24:29 NRSV) "Immediately after the suffering of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; *the stars will fall* from heaven, and the powers of heaven will be shaken.
Jesus is obviously talking about stars (to him little lights) falling from the sky (to him just a few miles up) down to earth.
This was entirely feasible to people of his time as they did not know that the stars are hugh celestial objects like our sun (many, many times larger than the earth) that were unimaginably distant.
We know today that stars are suns that are at such distances that light takes dozens to hundreds of thousands of years to travel to us.
Even if they could travel instantaneously to earth, they could not "fall to earth" as they are up to millions of times larger than the earth.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Problems with the Jonah story
Here is the certainly mythical story of how Jonah lived inside of a fish for three days:
(Jonah 1:17 NRSV) But the LORD provided a large fish to swallow up Jonah; and Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
Lets assume that the story was talking about a whale which was incorrectly identified as a fish by this tale and that the whale would have some interest in swallowing a person whole, let's look at some of the other ways this is fiction:
a) No oxygen.
b) Lot of poisonous digestive juices.
c) No drinkable water.
d) A whale has an enormously fast digestive system.
The Bible goes on to tell of how God "talks" to the "fish" and the "fish" "spews" the man on to dry land.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Garden of Eden was not a fair test
The test in the Garden of Eden myth, was not a fair test considering it requires the knowledge of good and evil to not do something evil, yet this is what eating the fruit was supposed to give to the couple.
(Gen 2:25 NRSV) And the man and his wife were both naked, and were not ashamed.
(After eating the forbidden fruit)
(Gen 3:10-11 NRSV) (Adam) He said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself."
(God) "Who told you that you were naked?
Not knowing good from evil (Gen 3:5), they did something evil so God punished them...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joshua makes the Sun stand still in the sky
The bible's primitive astronomy provides a longer day to complete the killing of all the Amorite men, women, and children.
Joshua realized that he wasn't going to have enough time to completely slaughter all of the Amorites (even with God helping by throwing boulders from the sky to crush the people that were fleeing) so he commanded the Sun to stand still in the sky over Gibeon and the Moon to stand still over the valley of Aijalon.
The author of Joshua like everyone else in his day was unaware of the earth's rotation and thought the Sun went around the earth and that the Sun and Moon were only a few miles up in the sky, hence the command to make them stand still over certain topographic features of the earth.
These very verses were used by the Church against Galileo when he suggested that the earth turned instead:
(Josh 10:12-13 NRSV) On the day when the LORD gave the Amorites over to the Israelites, Joshua spoke to the LORD; and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand still *at Gibeon*, and Moon, *in the valley of Aijalon*."
And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stopped in midheaven, and did not hurry to set for about a whole day.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nebuchadnezzar has a flat earth dream
Here is the dream of Nebuchadnezzar as the author of the book of Daniel imagined it. The author imagined a tree growing from the center of a flat earth and it reached the sky which in his day was thought to be just a few miles high. The tree was visible to the "ends" of the flat earth.
(Dan 4:10 NRSV) Upon my bed this is what I saw; there was a tree at the center of the earth, and its height was great.
The word hebrew word for earth here is ara:
772. 'ara', (Chald.), ar-ah'; corresp. to H776; the earth; by impl. (fig.) low:--earth, inferior
(Dan 4:11 NRSV) The tree grew great and strong, its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the ends of the whole earth.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bible errors
Jesus said the end of the world would be in his generation
Jesus is talking of signs that will happen before the end of the world to his disciples)
(Notice: Jesus probably thought the stars were little lights attached to a solid rotating sky dome like everyone else at that time)
(Mat 24:29 NRSV) "Immediately after the suffering of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; *the stars will fall from heaven*, and the powers of heaven will be shaken.
(Mat 24:30 NRSV) Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see 'the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven' with power and great glory.
(Jesus now says to his disciples that their generation will not pass away before the end of the world)
(Mat 24:34 NRSV) Truly I tell you, *this generation will not pass away* until all these things have taken place.
(Their generation did pass away, but the world didn't end)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus said that believers could handle snakes and drink poison
Jesus tells his disciples that those "who believe" can heal, handle snakes, cast demons out, speak in tongues, and drink poison.
(Mark 16:17-18 NRSV) And these signs will accompany those who believe: by using my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
they will pick up snakes in their hands, and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Problems with the Exodus story
The Exodus story is almost certainly a fabrication or at least extremely exaggerated.
The bible says 600,000 men (hopefully accompanied by an equal number of women), children, and a "mixed" crowd supposedly left Egypt.
(Exo 12:37-38 NRSV) The Israelites journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about *six hundred thousand men* on foot, besides children. A mixed crowd also went...
This is somewhere around 1.5 million people (more than live in the city of Dallas).
It is very unlikely that the Egyptians kept 1.5 million people enslaved, controlled, and fed.
It is also very unlikely that hundreds of thousands of Israelites wandered around on foot in a desert region with little food or water for 40 years after they left.
There is no record anywhere of Egypt ever enslaving the Israelites. There is no archaeological evidence to support the Israelites being in Egypt.
It is well established that the Egyptians themselves built all their cities and monuments during the off season (farming).
There is no record in Egypt of 1.5 million people suddenly getting up and leaving (The Egyptians were meticulous record keepers).
There is no archaeological evidence of anything more than a few scattered encampments in the wilderness where supposedly at least hundreds of thousands wandered and died in the bible.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus' primitive astronomy
Jesus was just a mortal man who had no special knowledge of modern cosmology. Here are some verses that indicate this:
(Jesus is talking about the end of the world) (Mat 24:29 NRSV) "Immediately after the suffering of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; *the stars will fall* from heaven, and the powers of heaven will be shaken.
Jesus is obviously talking about stars (to him little lights) falling from the sky (to him just a few miles up) down to earth.
This was entirely feasible to people of his time as they did not know that the stars are hugh celestial objects like our sun (many, many times larger than the earth) that were unimaginably distant.
We know today that stars are suns that are at such distances that light takes dozens to hundreds of thousands of years to travel to us.
Even if they could travel instantaneously to earth, they could not "fall to earth" as they are up to millions of times larger than the earth.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Problems with the Jonah story
Here is the certainly mythical story of how Jonah lived inside of a fish for three days:
(Jonah 1:17 NRSV) But the LORD provided a large fish to swallow up Jonah; and Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.
Lets assume that the story was talking about a whale which was incorrectly identified as a fish by this tale and that the whale would have some interest in swallowing a person whole, let's look at some of the other ways this is fiction:
a) No oxygen.
b) Lot of poisonous digestive juices.
c) No drinkable water.
d) A whale has an enormously fast digestive system.
The Bible goes on to tell of how God "talks" to the "fish" and the "fish" "spews" the man on to dry land.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Garden of Eden was not a fair test
The test in the Garden of Eden myth, was not a fair test considering it requires the knowledge of good and evil to not do something evil, yet this is what eating the fruit was supposed to give to the couple.
(Gen 2:25 NRSV) And the man and his wife were both naked, and were not ashamed.
(After eating the forbidden fruit)
(Gen 3:10-11 NRSV) (Adam) He said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself."
(God) "Who told you that you were naked?
Not knowing good from evil (Gen 3:5), they did something evil so God punished them...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joshua makes the Sun stand still in the sky
The bible's primitive astronomy provides a longer day to complete the killing of all the Amorite men, women, and children.
Joshua realized that he wasn't going to have enough time to completely slaughter all of the Amorites (even with God helping by throwing boulders from the sky to crush the people that were fleeing) so he commanded the Sun to stand still in the sky over Gibeon and the Moon to stand still over the valley of Aijalon.
The author of Joshua like everyone else in his day was unaware of the earth's rotation and thought the Sun went around the earth and that the Sun and Moon were only a few miles up in the sky, hence the command to make them stand still over certain topographic features of the earth.
These very verses were used by the Church against Galileo when he suggested that the earth turned instead:
(Josh 10:12-13 NRSV) On the day when the LORD gave the Amorites over to the Israelites, Joshua spoke to the LORD; and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand still *at Gibeon*, and Moon, *in the valley of Aijalon*."
And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stopped in midheaven, and did not hurry to set for about a whole day.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nebuchadnezzar has a flat earth dream
Here is the dream of Nebuchadnezzar as the author of the book of Daniel imagined it. The author imagined a tree growing from the center of a flat earth and it reached the sky which in his day was thought to be just a few miles high. The tree was visible to the "ends" of the flat earth.
(Dan 4:10 NRSV) Upon my bed this is what I saw; there was a tree at the center of the earth, and its height was great.
The word hebrew word for earth here is ara:
772. 'ara', (Chald.), ar-ah'; corresp. to H776; the earth; by impl. (fig.) low:--earth, inferior
(Dan 4:11 NRSV) The tree grew great and strong, its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the ends of the whole earth.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
