snickerdoodle said:
I was studying my Bible this evening, and came across a passage that I'm really having a hard time getting a grip on. Hopefully, someone here can help!
snickerdoodle said:
1Corinthians 14:34 and 14:35 state:
women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in church.
Please tell me! How is this relevant today? What knowledge am I supposed to glean from this? This really knocked me for a loop!
Hey, I know, being a female, the first thing that comes into mind...it is "why did God say this to women?" or "it isn't fair." However, it is for me, one of the most hardest to understand...I stopped my bible study because of this verse. I am a woman, and it happens that God has put this verse and people in my life to have me study what Paul says here. It happened that the only people who were able to make it to my bible study were males.....someone told me that I shouldn't be teaching because it's against God's word...I was really in need of an answer from God, because I did not know if God has sent that person to tell me, or if Satan has caused him to tell me to make me stumble...Anyways...I was patient...you have to understand that woman cannot preach...but this was a bible study, and not related to our church, but a Christian club....so still, I researched a lot and was not totally satisfied...but I think I understand. Paul says something very similar in 1 Timothy 2:8-15.
1 Timothy 2:8-15
8I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing.
9I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
Forgive me because I have not study these parts of the bible...so do correct me if I cite or did not understood the correct verses. I've read an article that I found through my research and it explains that the reason why Paul said this was because the Ephesians worshiped the god Artemis. And the Ephesian priestesses dressed and acted like what Paul had described. I took note of the word priestesses, and I think they must have been woman leading and teaching the people.
Their roles were different because women were in authority. Also I read that the followers believed that the women needed the help of Artemis to get safetly through childbirth, so that's why in Timothy, childbirth is mentioneed. And Paul is saying that they will be saved if they continue in faith, love,etc.
Also in Acts, while Paul was in Ephesis, the Ephesians were really mad at him. Take a look at how they responded:
Acts 19:23-31
23About that time there arose a great disturbance about the Way. 24A silversmith named Demetrius, who made silver shrines of Artemis, brought in no little business for the craftsmen. 25He called them together, along with the workmen in related trades, and said: "Men, you know we receive a good income from this business. 26And you see and hear how this fellow Paul has convinced and led astray large numbers of people here in Ephesus and in practically the whole province of Asia. He says that man-made gods are no gods at all. 27There is danger not only that our trade will lose its good name, but also that the temple of the great goddess Artemis will be discredited, and the goddess herself, who is worshiped throughout the province of Asia and the world, will be robbed of her divine majesty."
28When they heard this, they were furious and began shouting: "Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!" 29Soon the whole city was in an uproar. The people seized Gaius and Aristarchus, Paul's traveling companions from Macedonia, and rushed as one man into the theater.
So the article says that's why Paul says in 1Timothy 2:8 "8I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing."...but I'm not totally sure about this, because I don't know which book came before whick...or the when the events took place....you can find out.
I think that people need to know a little of history to understand the picture fully. So this info is not the Word of God, and I am not an anthropologist who study the people.
Some people claim that Paul allows woman to teach men because Pricilla and other woman in the bible do similar things, but I don't count them. Because it doesn't say specifically if they taught men or woman.
Here are some examples, and what I believe and got from the Word of God:
*He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately.” Acts 18:26
I don’t count this as Priscilla actually teaching a man, because her husband was there with her. If her husband wasn’t there, it would be a different story.
* 1I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church in Cenchrea.. Romans 16:1
*7Greet Andronicus and Junias, my relatives who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was. Romans 16:7
*2 I plead with Euodia and I plead with Syntyche to agree with each other in the Lord. 3Yes, and I ask you, loyal yokefellow, help these women who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life. Philippians 4:2-5
None of these verses above shows me anything that women were permitted to teach men by theirselves. There have been women who were servants, been by Paul’s side, believed Jesus Christ, and joined with their husbands to tell others about Christ. I have not seen a verse that shows me it is okay to teach men the Word of God.
I’ve been reading the bible a lot and praying about it. I had no direct verse, and so I stoped the bible study, or I will continue to sin. I was been getting a lot of spiritual attacks from Satan, and wondered if this is just one of his tricks to stop me from helping to bring people to God. But then, if I was doing the wrong thing by teaching men, I might cause others to stumble. I wanted to have the bible study, but it is the will of God that must be done, not mine.
So overall, I believe that what God is trying to tell us is for us woman to humble ourselves. I don't believe that it condems telling men about the word of God. The word "teach" has a different meaning than telling. I have seen woman who go over their head in preaching or bible studies, and I do feel like they are prideful and stand higher than men, while the bible teaches them to be quiet. One of my pastor says that it is men's responsibilities to teach. And he told us a story about how this woman at a church was such a good servant, that the men had asked the women to be in charge. But "no" was her answer, because she said, "then you guys will not do anything." He went on to say that God created Adam first, and He gave Adam responsibilities. The woman's responsibility is be a helper to Adam. That's what the bible says. But I think that may be true, that if the women took over, men would sit around, or go fishing. No offense. Plus each husband has a responsibility to his wife. They're suppose to protect them, and encourage them in faith and support the family....and of course the bible states that men are responsible for many things. It's not like God chose men to preach because women cannot, it is their duty to preach the Word of God. The woman is men's helper. Eve was suppose to help Adam, but instead she cause them both to sin...and Adam listened to her, when He was supposed to be listening to God....
Genesis 3:17
17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.
She was his responsibility. Because of this, when I step on a man and he is married, I truly know that I am stepping on both him and his wife. Because they are one, and husbands and wives are suppose to work together. There is no doubt that men are more the "protector" of the family, and woman the "nurturer." That's how are bodies are built. We are both different, but we are two pieces that makes the same puzzle. God knows what He was doing when he created us.
Just humble yourself if you are sharing the word of God. I guess we cannot always be sure what God is saying, but since it sounds literal, no matter how much I want it my way, it's not about me. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.....when in doubt, read and follow the Word of God.
Looks like I need to dive in a little deeper. Whew! Some of this sure is tough!
