I may give evolution a shot.

Arikay · Dec 10, 2003

David, I agree. It does get tiring after awhile that all this information is at peoples fingertips and they continue to ignore it, sometimes even willing to commite false witness, a sin, before they will accept the world as it is.

Arikay · Dec 10, 2003

As far as creationism being biblically sound. It might be literally sound, but theologically it ends up calling god a deciever and a liar. There are some that would rather call god a liar than admit their error, however I would hope that is not common.

Jesus taught Humility and unfortunatly many creationist groups dont seem to understand what that means. It would mean submitting to god, accepting that they are not omnipotent and might not be right about everything include their reading of the bible. Unfortunatly they have idolized a literal bible, and so since they feel a literal bible is god, they refuse to listen.

Mechanical Bliss · Dec 10, 2003

Yes, it is interesting how people who are ignorant of basic science and even how science works in the first place somehow come here with a great deal of arrogance claim the scientific community is incorrect (without providing evidence and completely ignoring every subsequent reply containing evidence---oh no! facts!--which amounts to willful self-deception).

Lonnie · Dec 10, 2003

What purpose does it serve to create an earth with millions of layers that form in lakes due to specific processes and yet those processes never actually happened? For us to exlore. Of course! Thats a simple question. Any thing that would lead you to think that God tricked us on purpose would be stupid. But hey, if you where God, why not? I would just for the fun of it. God does not need to trick us silly humans, we trick our selves perfectly fine.

Like people used to think the world was flat. And I said back then, "No, its round just look at the starts, and the orbits of things"
And you would reply "No, God would have to be a liar then, cause he tricked us"

That is how stupid the theory of your is that God would have tricked us then. Dont even bring up such non-sence. I know you believe it. But dont discuss it with me, it wont change my thoughts, it will only strengthen them as YOU prove to me more, and more how silly and illogical it is to believe it.

Then again, I dont care if you talk about it.

Later

Mechanical Bliss · Dec 10, 2003

Lonnie said:
What purpose does it serve to create an earth with millions of layers that form in lakes due to specific processes and yet those processes never actually happened? For us to exlore. Of course! Thats a simple question.

Why? Why create a feature created from processes that don't actually happen? Any exploration of them will reveal the conclusion that the earth cannot be thousands of years old. What purpose does that serve?

And YOU are the one who doesn't understand what creationists believe. They don't think your god "poofed" varves into existence as you continue to claim.

Any thing that would lead you to think that God tricked us on purpose would be stupid.

Remember, YOU are the one promoting the notion that your god is a liar with your explanation, not me.

The varve formation relevant here clearly indicates that the earth is not thousands of years old. You cannot come to the conclusion that the earth is thousands of years old with that varve formation on earth. That definitely makes your god deceitful.

Your excuse only illustrates that creationism is no longer a scientific endeavor and not substantiated by scientific evidence.

You realize that varves falsify young earth creationism because you admit that they exist in such a way reflecting millions of years. You simply explain them as being created as-is. Thus, your god does not want anyone to realize that the earth is thousands of years old, and yet it supposedly is? That's called "a lie."

Lonnie · Dec 10, 2003

Jesus taught Humility and unfortunatly many evolutionists groups dont seem to understand what that means. It would mean submitting to god, accepting that they are not omnipotent and might not be right about everything include their reading of the bible. Unfortunatly they have idolized the bible and twisted its trueths in to fiction, and so since they feel a that that fiction is god, they refuse to listen.

Does not that sound wrong? Why then do you use such useless, and false info? : )

Thanks for strengtthening my beliefe in creation, as you have just pointed something very strange(In my view, stupid. No hard feelings, ok? As I hate hurting people) out, that work against evolution.

Later,

Gotto go, wont be on for atleast 5 hours, Ill stay and read the next post or 2 though...

Lonnie · Dec 10, 2003

You may know. But then again, I am a creationist, and I know many people that agree with me on this.

How would you know Bliss what I believe? I have taken many creationist classes. Read the books, read the bible. And I believe in creationism, mabey there is another version of creationims I dont know?

It seems you may even knowless of creationism than I do evolution. (<---I recant that) Sorry
I know little of evolution

Sorry

Later

Arikay · Dec 10, 2003

ugh.

Nope doesn't sound right at all. Might I recomend learning about the people you are talking about first.

Have you seen many evolutionists lie to protect their theory?
I haven't
Yet on my computer I have multiple lies by creationist groups. They are lies because they either misrepresent something and pretty much know it. or they use false data to support their claims and they wont retract the data even after it has been shown to them to be false.

Have you seen many evolutionists claim that they will believe in evolution no matter what the evidence?
I haven't. matter of fact, ive seen the exact opposite.
Yet creationist groups have statements on their site that says no matter what the evidence, their belief is correct.

Please learn about the people you talk about and that you back up before saying stuff about them.

As far as evolutionists not knowing about creationism, many evolutionists seem to know more about creationism than many creationists. We have read a lot of stuff, from multiple groups. I personally have spent almost as much time researching creationism as I have researching evolution.

Lonnie said:
Jesus taught Humility and unfortunatly many evolutionists groups dont seem to understand what that means. It would mean submitting to god, accepting that they are not omnipotent and might not be right about everything include their reading of the bible. Unfortunatly they have idolized the bible and twisted its trueths in to fiction, and so since they feel a that that fiction is god, they refuse to listen.

Does not that sound wrong? Why then do you use such useless, and false info? : )

Thanks for strengtthening my beliefe in creation, as you have just pointed something very strange(In my view, stupid. No hard feelings, ok? As I hate hurting people) out, that work against evolution.

Later,

Gotto go, wont be on for atleast 5 hours, Ill stay and read the next post or 2 though...

Mechanical Bliss · Dec 10, 2003

Lonnie said:
How would you know Bliss what I believe? Do you believe in creationism?

I told you that YOU must not understand what creationists as a whole believe. Why? Because people at Institute for Creationist Research and Answers In Genesis don't try to explain away varves in the way you do. They try not to paint god as a deceiver like you are doing.

Do you watch creationism movies? Books? School Books? I can name more than 30 people that believe simular to what I stated. I have taken many creationist classes.

I have read a great deal of creationist literature, so I am hardly ignorant of their claims.

Only when creationists are backed into a corner do they use the "appearance of age" argument. I don't see any of the creationist organizations claiming this about varves. That means that they would have to admit that varves DO look like they were formed over millions of years. That would disprove young earth creationism.

Read the books, read the bible.

The Bible tells me nothing about scientific concepts such as how varves form.

Lonnie · Dec 10, 2003

I have heard evolutionists lie, never a creationist. Truethfully!

See I think we have differnt views, cause you are an evolutionist, and I am a creationist.

So that means little, cause I know for a fact, and so do all creationists, that evolutionists make lies to support there theorys, even if it against evidence.

I guess you say the same about creationists. I believe both groups make up lies. Or are both mistaken about things.

And uh, I recant the some of the stuff that is in that quote, thats why I earased it.

Mechanical Bliss · Dec 10, 2003

Lonnie said:
Jesus taught Humility and unfortunatly many evolutionists groups dont seem to understand what that means. It would mean submitting to god, accepting that they are not omnipotent and might not be right about everything include their reading of the bible. Unfortunatly they have idolized the bible and twisted its trueths in to fiction, and so since they feel a that that fiction is god, they refuse to listen.

Does not that sound wrong? Why then do you use such useless, and false info? : )

Thanks for strengtthening my beliefe in creation, as you have just pointed something very strange(In my view, stupid. No hard feelings, ok? As I hate hurting people) out, that work against evolution.

Later,

Gotto go, wont be on for atleast 5 hours, Ill stay and read the next post or 2 though...

You admit knowing next to nothing about the theory of evolution and refuse to learn anything about it. You have next to no science education. Yet you come here at fifteen years old with an arrogant attitude proclaiming that you will not read about any evidence for evolution from any scientific source if it mentions the word "evolution" nor will you read about any evidence supporting an old earth if the source mentions the words "millions" or "billions" in reference to years while baselessly claiming that you are correct--and then you preach to us about humility? That's rich. You need a significant dose of humility.

You keep claiming that we use "false info" but you are never able to show why that is. When backed into a corner you argue from theology, not the evidence in question. When we claim you use "false info" we DO show you exactly what is wrong with your arguments and give you reasons why. Don't you see the difference between the creationists and scientists here?

David Gould · Dec 10, 2003

Lonnie said:
I have heard evolutionists lie, never a creationist. Truethfully!

See I think we have differnt views, cause you are an evolutionist, and I am a creationist.

So that means little, cause I know for a fact, and so do all creationists, that evolutionists make lies to support there theorys, even if it against evidence.

I guess you say the same about creationists. I believe both groups make up lies. Or are both mistaken about things.

And uh, I recant the some of the stuff that is in that quote, thats why I earased it.

Are you able to present us with some examples of evolutionists lying? We can certainly present you with many examples of creationists lying.

Arikay · Dec 10, 2003

Really?

maybe you can start a new thread and show us what current evidence evolutionists are using that are lies? (that means no piltdown man strawmen)

Since you have said you have never seen a creationist organization use a lie, I would point you to this thread as a start,
http://www.christianforums.com/t60635

It looks at 7 pieces of evidence that AIG Currently uses and says are valid and truthful.

Lonnie said:
I have heard evolutionists lie, never a creationist. Truethfully!

See I think we have differnt views, cause you are an evolutionist, and I am a creationist.

So that means little, cause I know for a fact, and so do all creationists, that evolutionists make lies to support there theorys, even if it against evidence.

I guess you say the same about creationists. I believe both groups make up lies. Or are both mistaken about things.

And uh, I recant the some of the stuff that is in that quote, thats why I earased it.

napajohn · Dec 10, 2003

"Have you seen many evolutionists lie to protect their theory?"
LOL
Have you heard of the cambrian explosion that fish fossils
were found?
that coelacanth was a transitional extinct animal bet fish and reptile
that they cite Miller experiments using false premises in proving naturalistic protein synthesis?
peppered moth fake illustrations where dark moths were pictured visible on light colored open bark (in reality they rest underneath leaves)
simplicity of bacterial flagellum
Piltdown hoax, nebraska man
artistic depictions from fragments of fossils of so called "early man

""Bones say nothing about the fleshy parts of the nose, lips or ears. Artists must create something between an ape and a human being; the older the specimen is said to be, the more apelike they make it."*B. Rensberger, "Ancestors: A Family Album," Science Digest, 89:34-43 (1981)."

heres a link to many to list:
http://evolution-facts.org/c13c.htm

Mechanical Bliss · Dec 10, 2003

People have already addressed the things you are saying. This demonstrates that you deliberately ignore what people write.

lucaspa · Dec 10, 2003

Lonnie said:
You fail to relize something Lucaspa, either that or you ignore it.

You claim God could do evolution if he wanted(Yes, I do think he could do what ever he wants). He could just created everything in 7 days, without evolution. So you say he can create everything through evolution.

But is that not like taking what creatism involves as well. So that does not support evolution at all.

Not trying to support evolution here, Lonnie. I'm only saying that, if God can create in 7 days God can also create using evolution. Both creationism and evolution are ways for God to create. This gets away from the idea that if evolution is true then God is false. God is as true with evolution as with creationism.

So, now that we don't have to worry about God, we can objectively look at God's Creation to see how He really created. Was it by creationism or by evolution? God's Creation says it was by evolution.

But I dont believe, that God evolved things.

It doesn't matter what you believe. What matters is what God did. Right?

You claim creationism is False.

I don't claim it. Creationism is false.

It means little to me, cause it does not change fact to fiction in what you believe.

The evidence does change "fact" to fiction if the evidence shows the belief to be wrong. This happens whether you admit that the evidence changes things or not.

But what the Bible says, is about all I can truely believe in.

You can't believe God's Creation? What, you don't really believe God created?

Lonnie, this is where you get on real shaky theological ground. You are supposed to believe in God, not the Bible. The Bible only claims that it is useful to teach you about righteousness (2 Timothy). It doesn't claim to be the end all or be all about God. You as a person are doing that.

Do you believe in Luke 2:1 that the whole world was enrolled? Or do you accept the extrabiblical evidence and know that Luke was speaking about the whole world as he knew it.

Genesis 1-3 are creation stories as the people knew them. They do teach lasting theological truths. But those truths are not set in an actual history.

Arikay · Dec 10, 2003

Napa, if your not going to read my posts, dont bother answering them.
Notice I specifically said current, thus no Piltdown strawmen, hasn't that been explained to you before as well? Im starting to think you are now just being dishonest when posting stuff.

wblastyn · Dec 10, 2003

Arikay said:
Napa, if your not going to read my posts, dont bother answering them.
Notice I specifically said current, thus no Piltdown strawmen, hasn't that been explained to you before as well? Im starting to think you are now just being dishonest when posting stuff.

A dishonest Creationist!?! Such a thing is unheard of!! (Yeah, in bizarro world )

Lonnie · Dec 10, 2003

"You can't believe God's Creation? What, you don't really believe God created?"
I believe in Gods creation, its the theorys about them you cant trust.
I believe God created. Just how he did it does not matter, all we can do is come up with theorys.
Sorry, I believe in God too. And what he says. I think the bible is trust worthy, but not word for word, cause it was transalated. And people seem to make errors. I do believe in God.

You see, I believe in God, and Jesus. Not in every theory that people make. Dont get that confused with facts. Scientific law are eventualy proved wrong (Look at past science over the last 2000+ years). But not all science is wrong. But much is proved wrong later.

Sorry if you missunder stood me. And that I may have confused you.

Just because science make something a law, does not mean its true. As far as we know it would be true though.

Bye

Arikay · Dec 10, 2003

Yes, your right, many theories have been falsified, by newer, better theories that explain more or explain things better. So it confuses me why you want to back track and bring an old falsified theory back.

Science does not falsify creation, it falsifies creationism, a scientific theory. Creationism does not correctly explain gods creation, and thus it was tossed for a better theory. Just like geocentrism does not correctly explain gods creation, and thus it was tossed for a better theory.

You are fighting for the same thing you oppose.

I may give evolution a shot.

HI

HI

Secrecy and accountability cannot co-exist.

Well-Known Member

Secrecy and accountability cannot co-exist.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

HI

Secrecy and accountability cannot co-exist.

Well-Known Member

Secrecy and accountability cannot co-exist.

Pearl Harbor sucked. WinAce didn't.

HI

Senior Member

Secrecy and accountability cannot co-exist.

Legend

HI

Jedi Master

Well-Known Member

HI

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency