I know enough to know I know nothing.

[Carico]

Nathan's comment about evolutionsits not being atheists is irrational of course. People who know God know that He created the world. People who don't believe in God think it created itself.

 

[peaceful soul]

If God really wants to, He can allow some things to be evolutionalized and others creationalized. He is not subjected to our ways of thinking. But, thanks to His infinitely superior wisdom, intellect, knowledge, and understanding, He chooses not to do some things, simply because I am confident that they are absurd to Him.

 

[Arikay]

And as Rad and Car have shown, when you pretend to know everything, you end up looking like a fool.

It would have been better for them to realize they didn't know much on the subject they are discusing (evolution and atheism) and then learn about it, but since they dont realize that they dont know, they have become fools.

 

[Tariki]

I am always shaken a bit by those who claim to know so much, whether it be of "God" or of anything else. I am often genuinely frightened by their "certainties". (My main consolation is that so many are so certain of mutually contradictory things, and therefore this would seem to suggest that subjective "certainty" is no guarantee of truth, no matter what the believer may claim it is based upon)


Confucious had some sound advice......."Shall I teach you how to know something? Realize you know it when you know it, and realize you don't know it when you don't".

For me, humilty equals honesty.

Do all religious people claim to know? Why do some find "God" in unknowing? And others claim to know so much?

"Is there still hope
I may be growing
toward the wisdom
that is not-knowing?" (Angelus Silesius, Christian mystic)

"If we wish to be sure of the road we tread on, we must close our eyes and walk in the dark" (St John of the Cross, Christian mystic)

"Nothing that knowledge can grasp, or desire can want, is God. Where knowledge and desire end, there is darkness. And there God shines." (Meister Eckhart, Christian mystic)

 

[Nathan Poe]

If I'm not mistaken, you missed the entire point of the OP. Or perhaps you were just looking for an opportunity to argue.

You are mistaken; I got the point loud and clear: the quote from Socrates is a lesson in humility, as well as a reminder that one never stops learning. Kind of shoots down the whole "I have absolute truth and you don't" argument, doesn't it?

Although personally, I think Shakespeare said it better: The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool. --As You Like It, V.i

You, on the other hand, decided to hijack his idea and turn it into yet another "Evolution=Atheism" thread. You were the first person to mention evolution in any way, shape, or form. Were you aware of the OP?

Heh. Yeah mountains of evolutionary apologetics.

Actually, we call it "data." Surf on over sometime....

Thanks for helping me prove my point. You obviously KNOW evolution is a fact. Right?



Rad

Of course. It is a fact and a theory. Even the most rudimentary education in what "evolution" really is would show that.

You, OTOH, KNOW that it's a load of bs, and that your God personally told you the "absolute truth." Right?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Nathan's comment about evolutionsits not being atheists is irrational of course.

Not at all.

People who know God know that He created the world. People who don't believe in God think it created itself.

People who know God tend to disagree on how He created the world. The vast majority believe that evolution is the tool He used.

Perhaps if you dared surf on over to the C/E boards, you'd see that the vast majority of "evolutionists" are Christian, not Atheists.

http://www.christianforums.com/f70

Look. Listen. Learn. What are you afraid of?

I'll even make it easy for you: Go to the "Creation Science and Theistic Evolution" board:

http://www.christianforums.com/f143

Christians Only. Not an Atheist in the bunch. How many "Evolutionists" can you spot?

 

[supermagdalena]

I know what I believe and what I feel comfortable placing my faith in. That's it. Any knowledge I have hoarded ofer the years is relatively insignificant.

However, to say we can be certain of nothing is unreasonable. If we can be certain of nothing, then how can you be certain of the absolute you just stated?

 

[Voice Of Reason]

But there is someone who know everything. All we have to do is ask Him. All it will cost us is humility. Unfortunately, some people think that price is too high.

The "but" implies that you are agreeing that we know nothing. You are also saying you know that a god exists. You are contradicting yourself, rendering all arguments invalid.

 

[radorth]

"I have absolute truth and you don't" argument, doesn't it?

Agreed.

Actually, we call it "data." Surf on over sometime....

Even the most rudimentary education in what "evolution" really is would show that.

You mean "data" like Nebraska man? Only one problem. The "data" keeps turning out to be either false or to keep you changing theories, and it contradicts two of Darwin's own assertions about how his theory would be proved.

OK, so we'll read "we know that we know evolution is a fact so the OP doesn't apply to us. So no, it isn't absolute truth, but it's both a fact and a theory which we know to be absolutely true, except if we have to change our minds about the basic mechanism in order to explain new data. Therefore we know enough to know something."

Unbelievable.

Rad

 

[Arikay]

LoL, you do realize nebraska man was an error that was caught by Evolutionists and hasn't been used since the error was caught, something like 50 years ago.

unfortunatly your posts just seem to show how little you know about science and evolution. As soon as you can admit that you really dont know, you can actually begin to learn. But I dont expect that to happen anytime soon.

 

[Nathan Poe]

LoL, you do realize nebraska man was an error that was caught by Evolutionists and hasn't been used since the error was caught, something like 50 years ago.

unfortunatly your posts just seem to show how little you know about science and evolution. As soon as you can admit that you really dont know, you can actually begin to learn. But I dont expect that to happen anytime soon.

Nor do I. Since radorth, like so many others, sees evolution as a threat to Christianity, he has instantly branded it as evil. And since the Bible does teach to turn away from evil, he wouldn't dare actually learn what evolution really is...

 

[Nathan Poe]

Agreed.

You mean "data" like Nebraska man? Only one problem. The "data" keeps turning out to false be either or to keep you changing theories, and it contradicts two of Darwin's own assertions about how his theory would be proved.

Ah, Nebraska Man. I learned about him in history class. Your information is sadly out-of-date.

Tell you what, how about you make a list of evolutionary "mistakes" or "hoaxes" that were discovered by creationists. Then we'll talk.

OK, so we'll read "we know that we know evolution is a fact so the OP doesn't apply to us. So no, it isn't absolute truth, but it's both a fact and a theory which we know to be absolutely true, except if we have to change our minds about the basic mechanism in order to explain new data. Therefore we know enough to know something."

Unbelievable.

Rad

That you have such a lack of imagination that you take everything, including the OP, so uberliterally is what's unbelievable.

 

[radorth]

Since radorth, like so many others, sees evolution as a threat to Christianity, he has instantly branded it as evil.

Wrong! I have never believed blindly in special or recent creation, nor have I ever denied evolutionary changes occur much as Darwin postulated. I might even say I "know" species adapt to environment and may evolve into other species. What's interesting here is that God could still be creating and you cannot prove otherwise. But you will say you know he isn't, right? The only threat felt here is by you I'm afraid. You cannot say "I don't know" but I can. Your own posts are working against you here Poe.


I know enough about it to know I don't know, which makes this evolution vs creation an excellent example here.

If I had to pick a most likely explanation for all I have learned, I would pick Augustine's postulation of evolution from "packets" created by God, which Genesis refers to as "kinds." I personally believe he got that knowledge by revelation over 1500 years ago, (pretty amazing for his time) but I don't KNOW that.

Rad

 

[radorth]

LoL, you do realize nebraska man was an error that was caught by Evolutionists and hasn't been used since the error was caught, something like 50 years ago.

Evolutionary apologetics at its best.

Yeah and some Christians caught errors in Bible translations, and they were corrected in 1930. Christians are therefore greater thinkers than atheists, based on your logic.

Meanwhile I'm afraid everything you know about physics will be wiped out if the string theory is proven. What was that about parallell universes and 6th dimensions? What do you know?

unfortunatly your posts just seem to show how little you know about science and evolution. As soon as you can admit that you really dont know, you can actually begin to learn. But I dont expect that to happen anytime soon.

See my post to Poe. Why should I learn anything anyway, when all I will learn is enough to know I do not know? Did you also miss the OP?

You gotta love this.

I suppose you know the answers to "50 reasons to leave your faith in evolution" and can explain them to all of us.

Rad

 

[dlamberth]

Nathan's comment about evolutionsits not being atheists is irrational of course. People who know God know that He created the world. People who don't believe in God think it created itself.

I guess I'm big time irrational than...because, I'm not even close to being an atheist, as I am very much a lover of my Beloved God, yet...I'm an evolutionist. The thing is, being an evolutionist in itself does not necessarly mean that one "believes" that the world created itself.

..

 

[Tariki]

What's interesting here is that God could still be creating and you cannot prove otherwise.

Rad

Perhaps Christians could give deep consideration to this idea ........................that the full meaning of the incarnation - and the exact nature of the atonement - is still being unveiled within time and space..........by the guidance of the Spirit who will lead them into "all truth". Maybe to claim to "know" the definitive answers already - based upon literalist/fundamentalist understanding of so many texts - can block the true guidance of the Spirit?

The on-going creation of theology!

Those who have ears to hear let them hear!

 

[dlamberth]

Nor do I. Since radorth, like so many others, sees evolution as a threat to Christianity, he has instantly branded it as evil

I went back and read past post, and I don't think Rad has said anything about evolution being evil. What I think I hear him doing is the same thing that many non-Christians do when they press Christians about their "beliefs" in Christ. Now, I'm an evolutionist who is also a geologist-want-to-be. As a geologist-want-to-be, I'm, aware of earth processes. I'm also aware of the theories upon which geology is based. A lot of these theories take some level of faith that they actually happened that way. That is why the very nature of science is testing and modifying theories. Evolution, I suspect takes even more faith than geology, even with the preponderance of evidence that points towards evolution happening. And the near zero evidence pointing towards a 6 day creation, IMO, requires near blind faith that that process happened. The thing is, BOTH beliefs require some degree of “belief” that they actually happened.

What’s most important for Human Beings, I feel, is that the knowledge base that we acquire stops the instant there is no longer doubt. Not knowing is very good place to be.

..

 

[Arikay]

No scientist says they know anything 100%, which is why you can never "proove" anything.

It does take "faith" to accept science, but no more "faith" than it does to accept most everyday things as truth.

The theory of evolution has so much support from so many different sources that I would say for the basic theory it takes about the same amount of "faith" to accept it as is needed to accept germ theory or cell theory. Its just the tiny details that are in question anymore.

 

[dlamberth]

It does take "faith" to accept science, but no more "faith" than it does to accept most everyday things as truth.

The mystics often say that what we often accept as real in our everyday life, really isn't. I think that this points towards the question of: What is Reality? .. ..Oh man...that could get messy.

As Human Beings, we are mulit-level critters. Thus, I can say that on one level, that for me, the reality of evolution is real. Yet, on another level ask if am I really drinking this glass of water? And honestly answer that I don't know.

..

 

[peaceful soul]

originally posted by Nathan Poe

Nor do I. Since radorth, like so many others, sees evolution as a threat to Christianity, ...

Where did you get that dumb idea from? Who really cares. Anyone rooted in God's word does not fear those things. God is faithful to His word: the key element that almost all of you are missing.

...he has instantly branded it as evil. And since the Bible does teach to turn away from evil, he wouldn't dare actually learn what evolution really is...

Since when does learning about something such as evolution becomes evil? The Bible does not tell us to stop thinking. Maybe you should stop and get some rest. Maybe you will think better when you wake up. At least, I pray that you do.