I just lied to someone.

[Skye1300]

It was a sin, but just confess it and then learn ways to answer questions without technically lying. I learned that art of saying words without lying but not actually giving any information away. I can say a whole lot without actually saying anything at all! LOL!

 

[Aldebaran]

You simply avoided answering the question asked of you in the post you are quoting from. Lying is sin according to the scriptures. Let's not try and make excuses for sin.

I didn't write Hebrews or James.

 

[coffee4u]

Serious? That opinion is not biblical. Lying is deceptive and a sin according to the scriptures *1 John 3:4

Nobody knows what happens to stones out in nature. So saying he doesn't know what happened to them is still truthful.

 

[Ceallaigh]

I would be worried if I sinned and did not seek God's forgiveness. 1 John 2:1

That's why I'm not worried.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Don't you find it strange that neither Hebrews or James condemns her for deceiving those who were there to kill those she was trying to protect? In fact, it's not even brought up as a sin.

Not only wasn't she not condemned for lying, it put her on the honor roll alongside Abraham. Her lie resulted in her justification, and was used by James and the author of Hebrews as an example of what leads to justification.

I think this is a good example of the letter of the law vs the spirit of the law. The Pharisees were following the letter of the law when they accused Jesus of breaking the sabbath, whereas Jesus rebuked them in reply for not following the spirit of the law.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Serious? That opinion is not biblical. Lying is deceptive and a sin according to the scriptures *1 John 3:4

So why was Rahab twice commended for her deception?

 

[Halbhh]

Kind of a weird story. I work near a waterfront and railroad property. Another employee saw someone placing fairly big beach rocks near the railroad tracks. We picked them up and dumped them into the water with the other rocks already there. The other employee was concerned he might put the rocks on the tracks or use them to smash something.

So the rock man shows up again about ten minutes later, carrying another rock, and asked me what happened to the other rocks he left there. He was pretty agitated.

I told him twice "I don't know what you're talking about".

I suspect he was probably mentally ill. We get a lot of mentally ill folks going through the area.

So did I sin by lying to him to defuse the situation?

Christ knew we would need a way to figure out what is the right thing to do even in complex situations that are less obvious, so He said to us that helpful way to know:

Matthew 7:12 In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the Prophets.

As you can see, He said "In everything" meaning in all situations all the time, and He said this "sums up the Law" or is the "essense of the Law" (various translations). In other words, if you can imagine being in his place for a minute (even if mentally off, so long as not under the influence of drugs or other such altering things, etc.) and can imagine then what you'd want if you were in his shoes there...then you can know that way, for sure.

If you'd been him, in that moment, would you have wanted someone to answer you in that moment, as in that state of mind -- to answer in that kind of way as you did? Would it have been good, in your view then?

If you realize it's fine according to Christ's way to know, that's enough. If you realize it's bad, or even if you are unsure, you can confess and be forgiven in an instant (1rst John chapter 1), and also be kind to that man if you see him again either way.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I didn't write Hebrews or James.

No one said you wrote Hebrews or James just as Hebrews and James does not say anywhere that it is now ok to lie and lying is no longer sin.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Serious? That opinion is not biblical. Lying is deceptive and a sin according to the scriptures *1 John 3:4

Your response here...

Nobody knows what happens to stones out in nature. So saying he doesn't know what happened to them is still truthful.

We should not make excuses for sin. Just seek Gods' forgiveness.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

That's why I'm not worried.

Well that is good if you asked Gods forgiveness. *1 John 2:1; 1 John 1:9

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Not only wasn't she not condemned for lying, it put her on the honor roll alongside Abraham. Her lie resulted in her justification, and was used by James and the author of Hebrews as an example of what leads to justification.
I think this is a good example of the letter of the law vs the spirit of the law. The Pharisees were following the letter of the law when they accused Jesus of breaking the sabbath, whereas Jesus rebuked them in reply for not following the spirit of the law.

Why would Rahab be condemned for lying when she does not know what lying is (see James 4:17)? As posted earlier lying is sin *1 John 3:4 once we know it is a sin. We should not try and make excuses for it. The Spirit of the law does not tell us to break God's law and to commit known unrepentant sin. That is not Gods' Spirit and a contradiction to the scriptures *see Hebrews 10:26-31.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So why was Rahab twice commended for her deception?

No where in the entire bible is Rahab commended for lying. Your reading that into the scriptures. According to the scriptures, lying is a sin just like breaking anyone of Gods' 10 commandments is a sin and just as not believing and following what God's Word says. *1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7 Romans 3:20; James 2:10-11; Romans 14:23.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Christ knew we would need a way to figure out what is the right thing to do even in complex situations that are less obvious, so He said to us that helpful way to know:

Matthew 7:12 In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the Prophets.

As you can see, He said "In everything" meaning in all situations all the time, and He said this "sums up the Law" or is the "essense of the Law" (various translations). In other words, if you can imagine being in his place for a minute (even if mentally off, so long as not under the influence of drugs or other such altering things, etc.) and can imagine then what you'd want if you were in his shoes there...then you can know that way, for sure.


If you realize it's fine according to Christ's way to know, that's enough. If you realize it's bad, or even if you are unsure, you can confess and be forgiven in an instant (1rst John chapter 1), and also be kind to that man if you see him again either way.

If you'd been him, in that moment, would you have wanted someone to answer you in that moment, as in that state of mind -- to answer in that kind of way as you did? Would it have been good, in your view then?

Most likely not. Even though it was being done for my own good, as in trying to keep me from getting into trouble. If a cop doesn't like getting tickets, should that keep him from giving tickets? I'd say the answer is no. But then again, that seems to contradict doing unto others as you would have them do unto you.

 

[Ceallaigh]

No where in the entire bible is Rahab commended for lying. Your reading that into the scriptures.

In what way was Rahab not commended for hiding the spies though deception?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

In what way was Rahab not commended for hiding the spies though deception?

No where in scripture is Rahab commended for lying.

 

[Ceallaigh]

No where in scripture is Rahab commended for lying.

Then what was she commented for?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Then what was she commented for?

Rahab was a gentile Harlot and was commended for her confessed belief in God based on a very little knowledge of God and His mighty deliverance of Israel from the Egyptians and the Kings of the land (Joshua 2:6-24). She courageously hid the two Israelite spies from the King of Jericho. She treated the spies kindly. She helped them escape the city. She gave them specific instructions on what to do after they made it out of the city (so that they would not be caught by the king’s men). Rahab and her family kept secret the Israelite plan to destroy Jericho. And, as directed, Rahab bound the scarlet cord in her window, and gathered her parents and other family members in her house (according to the spies’ commands) in order to be spared from Jericho’s destruction. Indeed, as the New Testament rightly recognizes, Rahab actively demonstrated her faith in God (however so uninformed, inexperienced, and flawed her faith still was being a gentile that had no knowledge on how to follow God). As posted earlier no where in the scriptures is Rahab's dishonesty and lying condoned anywhere in the scriptures. What is condoned was her (1) confessed belief in God, (2) appealing to God for help, (3) showing kindness to the Israelite spies, (4) courageously hid them and helped them escape, etc based on what little knowledge she had of God. See James 4:17.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Rahab was a gentile Harlot and was commended for her confessed belief in God based on a very little knowledge of God and His mighty deliverance of Israel from the Egyptians and the Kings of the land (Joshua 2:6-24). She courageously hid the two Israelite spies from the King of Jericho. She treated the spies kindly. She helped them escape the city. She gave them specific instructions on what to do after they made it out of the city (so that they would not be caught by the king’s men). Rahab and her family kept secret the Israelite plan to destroy Jericho. And, as directed, Rahab bound the scarlet cord in her window, and gathered her parents and other family members in her house (according to the spies’ commands) in order to be spared from Jericho’s destruction. Indeed, as the New Testament rightly recognizes, Rahab actively demonstrated her faith in God (however so uninformed, inexperienced, and flawed her faith still was being a gentile that had no knowledge on how to follow God). As posted earlier no where in the scriptures is Rahab's dishonesty and lying condoned anywhere in the scriptures. What is condoned was her (1) confessed belief in God, (2) appealing to God for help, (3) showing kindness to the Israelite spies, (4) courageously hid them and helped them escape, etc based on what little knowledge she had of God. See James 4:17.

So Rahab didn't deceive the those looking for the spies in any way?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

So Rahab didn't deceive the those looking for the spies in any way?

No one can receive God's forgiveness of sins by trying to justify sin or make excuses for sinning. There is no where in the entire bible that condones Rahab's lying when she did not know lying was a sin.

 

[Ceallaigh]

No one can receive God's forgiveness of sins by trying to justify sin. There is no where in the entire bible that condones Rahab's lying when she did not know lying was a sin.

That doesn't answer question: So Rahab didn't deceive the those looking for the spies in any way?

Let's take a look:

1 Then Joshua son of Nun secretly sent two spies from [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim. “Go, look over the land,” he said, “especially Jericho.” So they went and entered the house of a prostitute named Rahab and stayed there.

2 The king of Jericho was told, “Look, some of the Israelites have come here tonight to spy out the land.”

3 So the king of Jericho sent this message to Rahab: “Bring out the men who came to you and entered your house, because they have come to spy out the whole land.”

4 But the woman had taken the two men and hidden them. She said, “Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they had come from. 5 At dusk, when it was time to close the city gate, they left. I don’t know which way they went. Go after them quickly. You may catch up with them.”

6 (But she had taken them up to the roof and hidden them under the stalks of flax she had laid out on the roof.)

7 So the men set out in pursuit of the spies on the road that leads to the fords of the Jordan, and as soon as the pursuers had gone out, the gate was shut. Joshua 2:1-7

In Joshua 2:4-5 was Rahab telling the truth? Or was she lying?