I just don't understand...

[OnederWoman]

I post on another board that is for Moms... (though there are some men and some non-parents as well)... there are various religions represented there.

There is this conversation going on that was started my a young Muslim Mom...

She asked...

"May i ask what ur thoughts are on the islamic religion???? muslims?? and thoughts of our belief that there is only one god and muhammad is his messenger?? and any other thoughts u have .

Im a 27 year old muslim mother of 3. I am a born muslim, But i didnt actually know anything about my religion until 3 years ago, when i actually started to practice islam.
But I also want to know what non-muslims all thought of islam.
Just curious here. I've been lurking on this board for a while now and i like learning other opinions on alll religions"

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What really gets me is how the Jewish ladies and gentleman responded....

I don't know, I just don't get it.... anyone here have any thoughts....?

Below are some of the responces... (all by Jews, not MJ's... they really don't like MJ's there)

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"I have nothing against muslims, some of my best freind are muslims. Hmm, one of the things that struck me in the previous answers is that they go along those lines, there is definitely an undercurrent of fear and mistrust going on.

As a Jew, I think that Islam is the best of all possible religions for non jews untill the coming of the messiah. I realize that Muslims don't beleive in a messiah, but that doesnt really matter from a Jewish perspective.

Islam's isdea of god is almost identical to Judiasm's and therefore, from a theological perspective, Islam is preferable to Christianity. Historically there have been two major streams in Sunni Islam, A moderate stream and a fanatical stream. When the moderate streamm has been dominant, it is a very nice place to live indeed. Historcially, when the fanatical elements gain control, there have been problems for non Muslims in those lands. I think we are currently living through a cycle where the fanataical elements are gaining the upper hand.

From a jewish percpective I think this would be preferable, at least from a physical safety point of view.

1, secular state.
2, moderate muslim state.
3, moderate Christian state
4, fanatical Muslim state
5, fanatical Christian state.

Moderate christian states still have an element of diacide and classical anti semitism. Islam doesnt have those issues ingrained into it's religion. As it is, there are no fanatical christian states out there, although perhaps there are a few in Eastern Europe, and there are many many fanatical muslim states. Would I ratehr live openly as a jew in The Ukraine or Yemen? I think Yemen, although I would hate to live in a world where those were my two choices.

This of course is not much of a comment about Islam so much as my perspective of islam as a Jew."

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"To my knowledge I haven't met any Muslims in RL, at least not recently, but the ones I've met online have been nothing but thoughtful in discussions, even if I've disagreed with one or two on a topic.

Like any religion I've had occasion to read about I see great potential for good in the practice of the religion, and great potential for bad to be justified by it. But that's true of ALL religions. Sadly, anything can be abused"

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"I think we have a lot in common and certain aspects of Islam resonate with me as a Jew."

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"[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]I just wanted to say thanks Sam for starting this thread. Mostly because Islam is something I am so confused about. In some ways I have found so many good things (people and just a draw I have towards some of the muslim people I meet, feeling more in common with them than most Christians I meet- not meant to be offensive, just something I have found maybe because they are never trying to convert me and we can just co exist in peace LOL! ) but on the other hand I hear things that frighten me and we all know thet most fear is caused by lack of knowledge. So any way, I'm enjoying reading this and am glad nobody took offense when I said sometimes I am afraid of islam in general."[/font]

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"The more I've learned here and elsewhere about both faiths, the more I've noticed their similarities. While I figured those practicing those faiths would have noticed those too, as an outsider to both, I've been hesitant to comment.

I've found it ironic, happily so considering the world situation, to see both Alsharifa and TEADS or Tzippy posting info about keeping kosher on threads"

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[blessed2]

Moderate christian states still have an element of diacide and classical anti semitism

Not if it's a true christian state.
American christians have been allies to Israel for some time.....I remember the American Christians liberating the Jewish people from the death camps.
As a Christian I believe the Massiah has already come and will return where the Jewish people believe He is yet to come. That is the primary difference.
I have attended many denominations and in every one of them they have preached that we should pray for Israel and her peace constantly so I don't know what kind of christian your statement would apply to.
For me, my L-rd, the messiah, was jewish....the roots of my entire religion and faith is Jewish and I am examining those roots now.
As per Islam, I had an Islamic man tell me that Jews are like pigs or nigers. To kill one is nothing more than to kill an animal. Is this what you would have christians become? Too, you and I both know who the G-d of Abraham was and His name was not -lla. I'll remain a christian who loves and prays for Israel and honors our G-ds chosen people.

 

[yod]

We're talking about perceptions among jewish (non-Moshiach aware) and this is perhaps the most telling of the responses;

"[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]I just wanted to say thanks Sam for starting this thread. Mostly because Islam is something I am so confused about. In some ways I have found so many good things (people and just a draw I have towards some of the muslim people I meet, feeling more in common with them than most Christians I meet- not meant to be offensive, just something I have found maybe because they are never trying to convert me and we can just co exist in peace LOL! ) but on the other hand I hear things that frighten me and we all know thet most fear is caused by lack of knowledge. So any way, I'm enjoying reading this and am glad nobody took offense when I said sometimes I am afraid of islam in general."[/font]

Israelis (and jews in general) have dealt with various groups trying to destroy them way before the days of Jesus. If you take a wide historical perspective, one would have to conclude that christians have been their worst enemies.

The best time in the history of the diaspora for jews was during the reign of the Ottoman Turks who weren't arabs but they did convert to Islam.

To most jew outside of America, there isn't a huge distinction between 2 groups who want to kill you. The rabbis of Israel have been known to teach that while muslims kill the body, christians seek to kill the soul by conversion.


It seems that Israel recognizes that evangelical christians in America are their most loyal friends POLITICALLY...but that is not a majority of "Christians" worldwide. They still see too many bishops aligning with Palestinians all the time.

And believe it or not, most muslims are not bloodthirsty fanatics. I know quite a few muslims in America but only one that would take up arms...and he wants to kill Arafat, not jews.

But when this guys says,

"just a draw I have towards some of the muslim people I meet, feeling more in common with them than most Christians I meet"

to a certain degree, I would understand and agree with him. Your average christian is strongly opinionated without being able to give a logical reason for some of their theories. For instance, you can be disfellowshipped at some churches for not swallowing a pre-trib rapture but only about 5% of that church can give a full explanation of their position.


Both times I have been in Israel, I found the high majority of christians to just be weirdos and prefered the company of jews or muslims.

 

[blessed2]

It just makes me sick!!!
The biggest problem I see and the most destructive is groups of people who "claim" to be christian. It's the deceptive ability of the enemy that is so wide spread and in powerful positions the ruins the true believers reputation around the world.
I'm just going to go ahead and say it and just be open.... Catholic, historically more crimes, blood shed and persecution
against humanity than any other and the most destructive to true christian believers. Not, that I think that that was how it was originally or originally intended to be but you can see just where the persecuted became the persecutor...."the wolves are in the church" amen....
How in righteousness can they aid those insane murderers? How can they permit priests to molest children, know about it and cover it up? German catholic commit the crimes they did against the jewish people and others in the name of G-d?
The KKK?
Liars everyone of them!
Just makes me spitting mad!
It's contrary to the Word and actions of a true follower of G-d and unfortunately it makes others fearful of us and difficult for us to reach the heart of them that need our love and support.

 

[sojeru]

I personally have a few moslem arab friends- and they are awesome people- we have great love toward eachother even if we do disagree on just about everything religiously- there is more in common even if there are grave differences between moslems and jews within the life style- they just have a flipped mind about things religiously.
they may think the same about us- who knows what they think of christians.
I have freind from Saudi, a beautiful peron in character- tries to convert me all the time- yet she cant- but her lifestyle is there in an almost correct fashion.

so to the good hearted arab moslems, i put them on a more preferred level than i would christians.

but thats my jewish opinion.

this is about a jewish opinion between Islam and christianity correct?

 

[blessed2]

Yes your right they try to convert you.
They believe that if you don't convert you should be killed and if they killed you they'd get a free pass into heaven.
The scriptures says that those who are ignorant of the law who do goodness by nature shall have it accounted to them as righteousness.
so weigh which is preferable
1) those who live a good lifestyle but who in the secret places of the heart believe you should be killed and heaven for whoever should do it....or
2) those who are ignorant of the lifestyle but who loves you with true G-dly love, prays without ceasing for you, for peace in Jerusalem and the house of Israel and would fight and die for the protection of Israel regardless of lifestyle or your beliefs on of Messiah.
#2 would be myself and those who are the true followers of the Word and G-d.

 

[blessed2]

People love thier too pets but if they bite have no trouble killing them.
It is difficult for you to believe that someone you care about harbor the belief that you are a pig, an animal and should be slaughtered and would recieve heaven for it.
Although they probly do care for you thus try to convert you and they probly have difficultly resolving that care and thier beliefs.
As I said in my first post....I know an arab also....we are quite friendly and he is very likable and so has been very open about what they believe and has shown me remarkable trust in being open with me certainly because he tells most people that he is albainian or such since 9-11 and yes, christian are viewed only slightly higher than Jews but still animals worthy of death and recieve heaven for it.

 

[blessed2]

and let me tell you about christians....we stand in a gap with jewish people.

Your viewed as either an enemy or if you show love then you have "jew envy"
It's a lose - lose situation.
While there is comfort in mutual love it isn't needed...I love them/you whether you love me or not and in that I obey that commandment.

 

[yod]

Hey Blessed2,

Most of us here feel very similar to the sentiments you just expressed toward jewish people. We want to show them that they are loved.

I tell all people about Yeshua because I sincerely believe that He is THE hope they are looking for. I tell jewish people especially because He came specifically for the lost sheep of the house of Israel....and Romans 1:16 says that the gospel is PRIMARILY for them.

I find most jews to be fair people. They only want to have a peaceful life and raise their families like everyone else. Most of the muslims in America are the same way. They came here to escape the craziness of the Arab nations. It's hard to look at them in this way in a post 9/11 world but we can't let paranoia get the best of us.

Those muslims in the arab world are being purposely decieved by governement sponsored media and wicked imams so we have to be wise in how we approach that situation. Most of them actually do hate us....yet we must still obey the Lord's command to love our enemies if we wish to ever see an end to violence.

And one more point......Catholics are not alone in persecution of jewish people. Martin Luther's virulently anti-semetic writings spawned some of the worst violence against jews in history. Even Hitler quoted him to justify the holocaust. Nope, anti-semetism has been rampant throughout the entire church often. Thankfully, this has begun changing in a huge way since 1967

But we still have a lot to live down. I believe that the time to favor Zion has come as written in Psalm 102....but check out the context that it is written in. Death, suffering, loss, despair, groaning, pain....

and yet it mentions YOU in verse 18