I have two questions regarding tongues ?

[pauluk3]

hi there

I have two questions regarding tongues ?

First the bible says if there is no interpreter there speaker should be quite, but how do you know if there is someone in the congregation with the gift of interpretation, because you speak ?

Second, if a tongue is given in a heavenly language, how do you know the the interpretation is correct ? If you have no way to verify it - like you are able to in the event of a human language being supernaturally spoken ?

 

[HOLYTHUNDER3]

1. There are two versions of tongues. One is xenolalia, which is a actual language. These need interpretation. The other version is glossolalia, which is a prayer tongue. No one can understand nor translate it -- only God.

2. When someone interprets it, you will tell if it came from God. If the message lines up with the word, you can trust it.

 

[pauluk3]

1. There are two versions of tongues. One is xenolalia, which is a actual language. These need interpretation. The other version is glossolalia, which is a prayer tongue. No one can understand nor translate it -- only God.

2. When someone interprets it, you will tell if it came from God. If the message lines up with the word, you can trust it.

OK, fair enough can you give me one instance were glossolalia was spoken in the bible ?

Were in the bible does it glossolalia is a prayer tongue ?

 

[HOLYTHUNDER3]

1 Cor. 14:2 (NLT)

" For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious. "

That is just one example. It is obvious it is a different type of tongue because there is not a single person who can interpret or understand it.

 

[rdclmn72]

There is no gift of interpretation.
The prophecy is judged according to the word.
Pentecost was where glossolalia happens.
The Holy Ghost intervenes in groanings as we pray.

 

[pauluk3]

1 Cor. 14:2 (NLT)

" For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious. "

That is just one example. It is obvious it is a different type of tongue because there is not a single person who can interpret or understand it.

Thanks, but I think you misunderstood my question, there are three records of believers supernaturally speaking in a human language - can you give me a record of anyone speaking in glossolalia ?

in regards to the verse " For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious.

Is it possible the person is supernaturally speaking in a human earthly language (greek) that other people don't understand (so they speak Hebrew) as they don't speak that particular language and and there he is only talking to God, still speaking by the power of the spirit, however its all mysterious and they don't understand ?

 

[pauluk3]

There is no gift of interpretation.
The prophecy is judged according to the word.
Pentecost was where glossolalia happens.
The Holy Ghost intervenes in groanings as we pray.

But anybody can say something in the bible, how do you know taht interpretation is about say - faith instead of love ?

regarding the verse :

And the Holy Spirit helps us in our weakness. For example, we don't know what God wants us to pray for. But the Holy Spirit prays for us with groanings that cannot be expressed in words

It seems to say the Holy Spirit groans for us in words that cannot be epressed in words , but if you speak that means you are using some time of words.

 

[HOLYTHUNDER3]

There is a gift of interpretation. Also, you're reading that wrong. Only God can understand in that instance. Xenolalia is the gift that can be interpreted. When you speak to God in a tongue, it is the language of angels.
Corinthians 13:1 "
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."
(KJV)

That is not to say that it is bad to speak the angelic language but it is better to use it at home for private prayer.

 

[pauluk3]

There is a gift of interpretation. Also, you're reading that wrong. Only God can understand in that instance. Xenolalia is the gift that can be interpreted. When you speak to God in a tongue, it is the language of angels.
Corinthians 13:1 "
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."
(KJV)

That is not to say that it is bad to speak the angelic language but it is better to use it at home for private prayer.

Ok I hear what you saying but did firstly did Paul actauly say he spoke in the tongue of men angles ?

New International Version
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

New Living Translation
If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn't love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

English Standard Version
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

Or did he say if I spoke, the second question is straight after Paul says this
:

And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing

Did Paul or can any human understand understand ALL mysteries - have ALL knowledge and have ALL faith. Are you sure he was not use exaggeration to making his point - Like he guys even if you are a super Christians if you have love you have nothing - do you now what I mean ?

I am not sure, but are you aware of Charles Parham ?

 

[HOLYTHUNDER3]

I would think that if the verse said that you speak to God and speak mysteries, I doubt Paul could understand the angelic language. He understood the scriptures and biblical truths. That's the mysteries he understood. But yes, he did pray and speak in tongues. I doubt the biggest apostle of all time lacked or was devoid of any gift.

 

[pauluk3]

I would think that if the verse said that you speak to God and speak mysteries, I doubt Paul could understand the angelic language. He understood the scriptures and biblical truths. That's the mysteries he understood. But yes, he did pray and speak in tongues. I doubt the biggest apostle of all time lacked or was devoid of any gift.

So to be clear thing Paul understand ALL mysteries - had ALL knowledge and had ALL faith - so you saying he was basically like God ?

 

[Svt4Him]

What answer do you want?

 

[pauluk3]

What answer do you want?

one that lines up with what the Scripture says

 

[Gregory Thompson]

hi there

I have two questions regarding tongues ?

First the bible says if there is no interpreter there speaker should be quite, but how do you know if there is someone in the congregation with the gift of interpretation, because you speak ?

Second, if a tongue is given in a heavenly language, how do you know the the interpretation is correct ? If you have no way to verify it - like you are able to in the event of a human language being supernaturally spoken ?

the part of the passage that is commonly missed .. and obfuscated by people of a certain doctrine is .. that one is instructed to pray so that they may interpret .. if they can do this successfully .. the gift .. though not the same as prophecy is considered equal to prophecy in it's ability to build up others in their faith .

 

[ltwin]

hi there

I have two questions regarding tongues ?

I'll answer this from a classical Pentecostal perspective. First, let me clear up some confusion that has been introduced into this thread on the nature of tongues.

An unknown language spoken as the Holy Spirit gives the utterance can either be xenoglossy (foreign language) or glossolalia (spiritual language). Either can be interpreted by a Christian with the gift of interpretation.

First the bible says if there is no interpreter there speaker should be quite, but how do you know if there is someone in the congregation with the gift of interpretation, because you speak ?

Within Pentecostal and charismatic congregations it is generally well known who does and does not have the gift of interpretation. If you have attended that congregation for any length of time you become familiar with people who regularly operate in this gift.

If you've never or rarely attended a congregation but are burdened to deliver a message, it might be best to wait and let the burden lift and pass to someone else in the congregation. If you feel burdened to give a message in tongues, there may be others who feel burdened also. 1 Corinthians 14:27-33 is a very interesting passage:

27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. 28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. 30 If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, 32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. 33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.​

The Apostle Paul writes here that it would not be out of the ordinary for several people to receive a "revelation" at the same time. Therefore, if you are new to a congregation and not sure if there is someone there who can interpret then there is nothing wrong with waiting to see if someone else comes forward to deliver the message who does know who can interpret.

However, if the burden does not lift, you can always go to a pastor or assistant pastor and let them them know that you feel a burden to give a message in tongues but do not want to be out of order and take direction from them.

Second, if a tongue is given in a heavenly language, how do you know the the interpretation is correct ? If you have no way to verify it - like you are able to in the event of a human language being supernaturally spoken ?

First, does it agree with the Word of God? Second, are the people giving the message and interpretation known to the congregation as born again, Spirit-filled Christians living lives in accordance with Christian discipleship? If the content of the message is agreeable to the Word and the people are Christians in good standing with the congregation than that would seem to be all that is required.

The Apostle Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 12:

12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit.​

Likewise we are told in 1 John 4:

4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God.
​

In context, the New Testament writers were confronting early heresies denying the divinity of Christ. Therefore, they tell the church that the Holy Spirit will never inspire anyone to denigrate or lessen Christ. Likewise, someone can only proclaim Jesus as Lord by the Holy Spirit.

Essentially, when it comes to gifts of utterance and revelation, we can apply doctrinal tests in order to judge the truth of what is proclaimed. What is our standard of doctrine? The Holy Scriptures.

 

[pauluk3]

I'll answer this from a classical Pentecostal perspective. First, let me clear up some confusion that has been introduced into this thread on the nature of tongues.

An unknown language spoken as the Holy Spirit gives the utterance can either be xenoglossy (foreign language) or glossolalia (spiritual language). Either can be interpreted by a Christian with the gift of interpretation.



Within Pentecostal and charismatic congregations it is generally well known who does and does not have the gift of interpretation. If you have attended that congregation for any length of time you become familiar with people who regularly operate in this gift.

If you've never or rarely attended a congregation but are burdened to deliver a message, it might be best to wait and let the burden lift and pass to someone else in the congregation. If you feel burdened to give a message in tongues, there may be others who feel burdened also. 1 Corinthians 14:27-33 is a very interesting passage:

27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. 28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. 30 If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, 32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. 33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.​

The Apostle Paul writes here that it would not be out of the ordinary for several people to receive a "revelation" at the same time. Therefore, if you are new to a congregation and not sure if there is someone there who can interpret then there is nothing wrong with waiting to see if someone else comes forward to deliver the message who does know who can interpret.

However, if the burden does not lift, you can always go to a pastor or assistant pastor and let them them know that you feel a burden to give a message in tongues but do not want to be out of order and take direction from them.



First, does it agree with the Word of God? Second, are the people giving the message and interpretation known to the congregation as born again, Spirit-filled Christians living lives in accordance with Christian discipleship? If the content of the message is agreeable to the Word and the people are Christians in good standing with the congregation than that would seem to be all that is required.

The Apostle Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 12:

12 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2 You know that when you were pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were led. 3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit.​

Likewise we are told in 1 John 4:

4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God.
​

In context, the New Testament writers were confronting early heresies denying the divinity of Christ. Therefore, they tell the church that the Holy Spirit will never inspire anyone to denigrate or lessen Christ. Likewise, someone can only proclaim Jesus as Lord by the Holy Spirit.

Essentially, when it comes to gifts of utterance and revelation, we can apply doctrinal tests in order to judge the truth of what is proclaimed. What is our standard of doctrine? The Holy Scriptures.

First, does it agree with the Word of God? Second, are the people giving the message and interpretation known to the congregation as born again, Spirit-filled Christians living lives in accordance with Christian discipleship? If the content of the message is agreeable to the Word and the people are Christians in good standing with the congregation than that would seem to be all that is required.

How do you know if its the right part of the bible , so it may line up with scripture, but how do you know the interpreter is still giving the right interpretation , even if it lines up with the scripture

My other unanswerd question is below, maybe you can help.

Is it possible for a human to understand ALL mysteries - have ALL knowledge and have ALL faith



New International Version
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

New Living Translation
If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn't love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

English Standard Version
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

Or did he say if I spoke, the second question is straight after Paul says this
:

And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing

Did Paul or can any human understand understand ALL mysteries - have ALL knowledge and have ALL faith. Are you sure he was not use exaggeration to making his point - Like he guys even if you are a super Christians if you have love you have nothing - do you now what I mean ?

I am not sure, but are you aware of Charles Parham ?

 

[ltwin]

How do you know if its the right part of the bible , so it may line up with scripture, but how do you know the interpreter is still giving the right interpretation , even if it lines up with the scripture

You have faith that the Holy Spirit has placed gifts in the church and that He is in control. We should also keep in mind that there is a spiritual gift known as distinguishing between spirits. These people would be able to discern if something was off with a tongue or interpretation.

Is it possible for a human to understand ALL mysteries - have ALL knowledge and have ALL faith

<Shortened>

Did Paul or can any human understand understand ALL mysteries - have ALL knowledge and have ALL faith. Are you sure he was not use exaggeration to making his point - Like he guys even if you are a super Christians if you have love you have nothing - do you now what I mean ?

It's important to understand what Paul is saying here and what he is not saying here. His aim is to place the spiritual gifts in their proper place. That proper place is in the service of love, for without love all the gifts in the world amount to nothing.

Therefore, Paul starts by saying, "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal." Even angelic tongues used without love are not beautiful--only crude noise.

He then moves on to prophetic powers, another of the spiritual gifts. He then mentions "understand all mysteries and knowledge." This corresponds to the spiritual gifts of the utterance of wisdom and the utterance of knowledge listed in 1 Corinthians 12:8. Next, comes "all faith, so as to remove mountains." This corresponds to the gift of faith listed in 1 Corinthians 12:9 (note this is not the same thing as saving faith which is available to all people).

Therefore, the first 2 sentences of this paragraph are actually just listing spiritual gifts that one might be tempted to take pride in (tongues, prophecy, the utterance of wisdom, the utterance of knowledge, and the gift of (extraordinary) faith).

He then moves out of the realms of spiritual gifts, but he still speaks of acts that Christians could be expected to take pride in, namely good works and voluntary martyrdom.

The point is that whether one operates in spiritual gifts, does many good works, or voluntarily delivers up oneself to death for Christ's sake none of it means anything without love. For we are told elsewhere that God is love.

It isn't possible for humans to have "all knowledge", but it is possible for them to have the gifts of the utterance of knowledge and the utterance of wisdom and the gift of extraordinary faith, etc. These are all real gifts that people can potentially take misplaced pride in. This is what Paul is warning against.

Likewise, the gift of tongues is a real gift. There is no reason to believe that one cannot speak in the tongues of angels if given utterance by the Holy Spirit.

However, whether Paul was simply speaking of extremes to make a point or not it really does not matter from the Pentecostal perspective. Whether you call it heavenly, angelic or gibberish, we find that glossolalia fits the description of the gift of tongues in 1 Corinthians perfectly.

If you don't want to call it "angelic" language, feel free not to, but it does fit the biblical record.

I am not sure, but are you aware of Charles Parham ?

Yes, I am familiar with Charles Parham.

 

[Juelrei]

hi there

I have two questions regarding tongues ?

First the bible says if there is no interpreter there speaker should be quite, but how do you know if there is someone in the congregation with the gift of interpretation, because you speak ?

The text you speak of is 1 Cor.14:28, it comes after verse 27 which says that anyone who speaks in a tongue may do so up to three times with one (out of any other number that could) to give the interpretation, for the purpose of it being orderly.
And, verse 28, is regarding an opposite of there possibly being no interpreter available that day- which implies that believers should be aware of those who have interpreted regularly. This is also for the purpose of being orderly in operational functioning.

There is no violation of the scripture for someone to publically speak and the tongue go un-interpreted. Any assembly could at any time have an influx of visitors who don't know if any interpreter is there.

When all operation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit are functioning.. you might ask, how could God not know that there is not an interpreter?

My answer is.. if it were merely all up to God, then Paul need not have written all that he did in teaching them how to be orderly.

Second, if a tongue is given in a heavenly language, how do you know the the interpretation is correct ? If you have no way to verify it

You are the one that has no way to verify it. And you are not expected to be able to.
You will remain unable to.. until you are baptized and begin to speak in tongues, Acts 19:2, receiving by faith, Rm.10:9-10, and then qualify to request interpretation of your tongues, 1 Cor.14:13, that are by utterance of the Holy Spirit, Acts2:4.
Or, perhaps the Holy Spirit will allow that you operate in the ministry gift of tongues and interpretation. 1 Cor.12:10.

- like you are able to in the event of a human language being supernaturally spoken ?

It's not so simple to verify someone supernaturally speaking English as it may seem.
I've only heard testimonies from those who mistakenly thought that the person was merely praising God as someone speaking English. They told the translator that he or she needed to quit speaking English and give their vocal parts to the Holy Spirit.
Someone nearby (via a bi-lingual translator) had to tell them that the person does not know English.

 

[Svt4Him]

one that lines up with what the Scripture says

so pray tell what you already know.

 

[Biblicist]

1. There are two versions of tongues. One is xenolalia, which is a actual language. These need interpretation. The other version is glossolalia, which is a prayer tongue. No one can understand nor translate it -- only God.

It seems that you may have inadvertantly referred to glossalia as xenolalia as there is no need to translate what is said in a known human language (xenolalia) such as we see on the Day of Pentecost. When it comes to the every day application of praying in the Spirit during the congregational setting, this will always require a translation as glossolalia is always given by the Spirit in angelic tongues.