I have got questions for you!!!!!!!!!

[DD2008]

I have to point out that Paul does say that the passage you reference is the Lord's command...check out verse 37 ...
If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord.

He didn't say that in the quote from Timothy.

Here to the Corinthians he trying to make order in this new local Church within the Roman Empire that won't drive away potential new believers. So speaking in tongues without an interpreter was an issue so was women speaking in the Church. It was considered shameful and reminded people of a pagan oracle that only women were in leadership of in and around Greece.

Check out verses 23-25

[23] If, therefore, the whole church assembles and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?
[24] But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all,
[25] the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.

 

[DD2008]

Even if this passage does have a cultural motivation, it doesn't discount the passage that does not have a cultural motivation.


It's not a decided issue in many denominations, and certainly not decided in the global Church if you don't distinguish between denominational lines.

And I am called to defend the truth in all places...discussion boards included. I did so without being inflammatory, so i'm not sure why you would have a problem with it. When Christ teaches something in His Word and others teach differently, I will defend Him and His Word...but i try to do so with respect.

Arguing is a very different discipline than that of proclaiming Scripture truths.


Sometimes there's more to fighting for the truth than deciding what church to join. It's not all about "me" as we are so often inclined to think....it's about the Church...the Body of Christ...and the truth that she possesses.

I think that the truth is that statment was a suggestion to Timothy on the level of Paul's suggestion for people to remain celibate. He specified that "he" didn't allow women in leadership roles and gave his reason why. He didn't say The Lord or the Church or it is forbidden for...etc

 

[DD2008]

This thread got off on a tangent. So, we've concluded that some Calvinists support the ordination of women some don't.

Next issue?

 

[bradfordl]

I gave her the pro-women side you guys gave her the anti-women side of the ordination argument.

It is not a pro- or anti- women argument at all. It is what scripture teaches. In the same way, only Levites could be priests. It has nothing to do with qualifications, i'm sure there were plenty of Benjaminites who were perfectly capable of carrying out priestly duties. However, for them to have done so would have been sin because it was contrary to what God commanded. It would be wise to try to refrain from importing your own or the world's opinions into scripture or the Church. The result is bastardization and apostasy. Lean not to your own understanding.

 

[arunma]

It is not a pro- or anti- women argument at all. It is what scripture teaches. In the same way, only Levites could be priests. It has nothing to do with qualifications, i'm sure there were plenty of Benjaminites who were perfectly capable of carrying out priestly duties. However, for them to have done so would have been sin because it was contrary to what God commanded. It would be wise to try to refrain from importing your own or the world's opinions into scripture or the Church. The result is bastardization and apostasy. Lean not to your own understanding.

What Bradford said.

 

[larryjf]

If it's anti-woman to say that men are to take on roles that women are not...then it's anti-man to say that women are to take on roles that men are not - like child birthing and raising.

 

[DD2008]

It is not a pro- or anti- women argument at all. It is what scripture teaches. In the same way, only Levites could be priests. It has nothing to do with qualifications, i'm sure there were plenty of Benjaminites who were perfectly capable of carrying out priestly duties. However, for them to have done so would have been sin because it was contrary to what God commanded. It would be wise to try to refrain from importing your own or the world's opinions into scripture or the Church. The result is bastardization and apostasy. Lean not to your own understanding.

Have you ever considered taking up politics?

 

[AnneSally]

LOL! That smilie is the best!

 

[MattHall]

We play a very dangerous game when we start to discount the teachings of Paul as his opinion and not scripture. The writings of Paul are in scripture and are thus true.

Women Pastors and Elders are not supported by any biblical text. Support comes from nothing but culture. And culture is clearly sinful.

I understand this is a difficult position for the ladies who want to be in this kind of ministry... but it is truth. -- There are several good books on the issue of gender. Can I recommend cbmw.org

Chapter 21, Principles to Use in Establishing Women in Ministry, from the book Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood is available for free download in .pdf format. I think that would be the most help in understanding the role of women in a reformed church.

 

[DD2008]

We play a very dangerous game when we start to discount the teachings of Paul as his opinion and not scripture. The writings of Paul are in scripture and are thus true.

Women Pastors and Elders are not supported by any biblical text. Support comes from nothing but culture. And culture is clearly sinful.

I understand this is a difficult position for the ladies who want to be in this kind of ministry... but it is truth. -- There are several good books on the issue of gender. Can I recommend cbmw.org

Chapter 21, Principles to Use in Establishing Women in Ministry, from the book Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood is available for free download in .pdf format. I think that would be the most help in understanding the role of women in a reformed church.

That sounds like a good Catholic reason for celibate pastors. Are the pastors in your church celibate? Do all the women wear mantillas?

 

[Epiphoskei]

Well, pastors specifically gifted with Celibacy are indeed a good thing. But the biblical text also says celibacy can only be accepted by those to whom it has been given, and that ministers of the Gospel have the right to bring along a believing wife. So the Bible does support married pastors. It doesn't include any female ones, or specific instructions to appoint them.

 

[DarkNLovely]

Seems ya'll have been havin fun without me! LOL! I got a new question now! What is your churches stance on icons, rosaries and other such charms and things? Do you believe in Real Presence? Don't know if I asked that yet!

 

[DD2008]

Seems ya'll have been havin fun without me! LOL! I got a new question now! What is your churches stance on icons, rosaries and other such charms and things? Do you believe in Real Presence? Don't know if I asked that yet!

Nice to see you again!

I'll let the others handle this. I'm new to my denomination and the other Calvinists here don't like that the PCUSA ordains women so...

However, I don't think anyone believes in art made of Christ or God however art of anything else is fine.

Here is an excerpt from the Westminster Catechism (a statement I think we all agree on)

[FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+1]Q:[FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif] What is the Lord's Supper? [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+1]A: [FONT=Times, Times New Roman, Serif][SIZE=+1]The Lord's Supper is a sacrament, wherein, by giving and receiving bread and wine, according to Christ's appointment, his death is shewed forth;1 and the worthy receivers are, not after a corporal and carnal manner, but by faith, made partakers of his body and blood, with all his benefits, to their spiritual nourishment, and growth in grace.2 [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[MattHall]

Scripture is clear that God intends marriage for most people.

No where is marriage forbidden for the people who are in ministry.

As for mantillas. Women should follow the principal of the law... humility.

 

[DD2008]

Scripture is clear that God intends marriage for most people.

No where is marriage forbidden for the people who are in ministry.

As for mantillas. Women should follow the principal of the law... humility.

I think Paul's suggestion that people should remain celibate is about as binding as his telling Timothy that he doesn't allow women in charge of men and he gave his reasons. However, the overall message sounded like it was really up to Timothy to decide what he was going to allow in his diocese.


We should focus on her questions though. I think we're starting to derail the thread.