I have a question

[B1inHim]

I have a question… who are these people … where exactly are they… are they spoken of other than here…and how did they get here?

That’s more like four questions huh?

I have my own answers but I am willing to listen to some of your answers and reasoning…
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do us ALL a favor and do not turn this into a debate for at least 1 week, so that we can all see what each other has before we start trenching and shooting…
Thanks so very much

Here are the people

Rev.7: 9After this I saw a vast crowd, too great to count, from every nation and tribe and people and language, standing in front of the throne and before the Lamb. They were clothed in white and held palm branches in their hands. 10And they were shouting with a mighty shout, “Salvation comes from our God on the throne and from the Lamb!”
11And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living beings. And they fell face down before the throne and worshiped God. 12They said,
“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom
and thanksgiving and honor and power and strength
belong to our God forever and forever. Amen!”
13Then one of the twenty-four elders asked me, “Who are these who are clothed in white? Where do they come from?”
14And I said to him, “Sir, you are the one who knows.”
Then he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and made them white. 15That is why they are standing in front of the throne of God, serving him day and night in his Temple. And he who sits on the throne will live among them and shelter them. 16They will never again be hungry or thirsty, and they will be fully protected from the scorching noontime heat. 17For the Lamb who stands in front of the throne will be their Shepherd. He will lead them to the springs of life-giving water. And God will wipe away all their tears.”

 

[interpreter]

These are the martyrs who come out of the Great Tribulation, i.e., that die and go to heaven and then are resurrected in the first resurection in ch. 20.

 

[Zadok7000]

"These are they which came out of great tribulation" are just that. Not only those of physical Israel (verses 1-8), but of all peoples. They washed their robes and made them white during the Tribulation, meaning they are Christians but were dirty, they were deceived by Satan temporarily. See Dan 11 - And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

"he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them" = Ezek. 48 - and the name of the city from that day shall be, The LORD is there.

"and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters" = Zech. 14 - And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem...And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Their location is in Jerusalem, post-Tribulation, post-Return. IE the Millennial Temple.

 

[zeke37]

interesting take

 

[zeke37]

I have it to two possibilities...

we just read about the elect sealed on earth...the firstfruits on earth

so,

this second mentioned group may possibly be the elect in heaven, the other part of the firstfruits....the dead in Christ with whome He returns with in 1Thes4, Mat24, Mar13 1Cor15, Rev19 etc.


or, this is a Millennial scene as Zadok believes.

 

[contrabar]

they are those who have come out of tribulation... those who have experienced the first resurrection.

 

[Tractor1]

They are Tribulation saints who've sealed their testimony with their own blood.

In Christ,
Tracey

 

[Bible2]

Those in Revelation 7:9,14 could be those in the church who will live to enter into the coming tribulation, only to come out of it (Revelation 7:14) by dying during its first stage, the seal events of the chapter just prior (Revelation 6). Their death will take their souls into heaven (Revelation 7:15), just as whenever people in the church die their souls go into heaven to be with Jesus (Philippians 1:21,23, 2 Corinthians 5:8). The souls of dead believers are given robes to wear (Revelation 6:9-11, Revelation 7:9), just as the soul of the dead Samuel was seen wearing a robe (1 Samuel 28:14).

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[John S]

They are the martyrs of the Tribulation.
Far too many people have the belief that these are the people who have been Raptured away. This is NOT correct.

 

[Joshua David]

They are the martyrs of the Tribulation.
Far too many people have the belief that these are the people who have been Raptured away. This is NOT correct.

I would agree that these people are not the raptured church as I believe that the Church will be raptured before the tribulation starts, and therefore will not be in the tribulation at all.

And in order to come out of the tribulation, you must be in the tribulation first.

Joshua David

 

[John S]

There is NO Pre-Trib Rapture.
That is Satan's GREATEST deception yet.

 

[Shesapeach]

I would agree that these people are not the raptured church as I believe that the Church will be raptured before the tribulation starts, and therefore will not be in the tribulation at all.

And in order to come out of the tribulation, you must be in the tribulation first.

Joshua David

Every single believer in Christ has endured the tribulation. Jesus said the tribulation began with the desolation of Israel and will be cut short for the sake of the elect (of Israel). The giving of white robes in the 5th seal, symbolic of the giving of glorified bodies, is the moment when the rapture takes place.

It is wrath we are not appointed to suffer. Rev 6, the 6th seal, says the wrath begins at that time.

Rev 7 is describing the raptured, glorified church, standing before the throne of God and the Lamb praising God for salvation.

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Rev 7 says they wash their robes and make them white in the blood of the Lamb. That's the church and ONLY the church...no one else.

It is also referencing Exodus 19:10-20, a type of the rapture, where God tells Moses to consecrate the people for two days (2000 years) because on the morning of the 3rd day, at the sound of a heavenly trumpet that gets louder as it's being blown, God will come down.

 

[SeraphimsCherub]

It also represent's all "Christian's" life here on earth in one form or another is a "great tribulation" of the "cosmic" war going on within us everyday! of GOD'S Spirit, against our flesh,the world, and satan, within our soul's until we are with Jesus in Heaven!

John 16:33 (KJV) These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Galatians 5:17 (KJV) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Ephesians 6:12 (KJV) For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Revelation 1:9 (KJV)I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[Joshua David]

There is NO Pre-Trib Rapture.
That is Satan's GREATEST deception yet.

Please explain how the pretrib rapture is Satan's greatest deception. I thought that Satan's greatest deception was that we could all be either God or like God.
or here's one, Why worry about getting right with God now.... there's still time.. why hurry, what's the rush?


What proof do you have that this is Satan's greatest deception. Belief in the pretrib rapture has spurred missionary work, some of the greatest missionaries in the modern day and age, have believed in the pretribulation rapture. The belief that Jesus could come at any time, encourages us to live each day for him, always to be ready. Yeah I can see Satan really getting behind this one.


Let me ask you this.. If you were Satan, would you rather people think that Jesus could come back at anytime, so we need to make sure that we are ready, and we need to reach out to the lost TODAY! Not tomorrow, not next week, not next year, Today! Or would he rather people think, well I asked my neighbor if he knew Jesus, I did my duty, I guess when the tribulation starts, he will know that I am telling him the truth, I bet he will be willing to listen to me then.

So to tell you the truth, if Satan was going to support one version of the rapture over the other, he would definitely be supporting the Post Tribulation Rapture. Because then Jesus is always at least 7 years away from coming back. The Post Tribulation Rapture robs the Christian of his or her sense of urgency! It robs them of their sense of comfort. It robs them of their hope.

So list your reasons.. let's hear it.

Joshua David

 

[jeffweeder]

I have a question…
1)who are these people …
2)where exactly are they…
3)are they spoken of other than here…
4)and how did they get here?

That’s more like four questions huh?

Greetings

1) These people are the redeemed of all ages.
2) before the great white throne
3) rev 21, immediately after the wicked are sentenced, when he wipes away the tears etc
4)ressurection at the 2nd coming of Christ.

Rev 7
Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?"
14 I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 "For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.
16 "They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat;
17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes."

Rev 21
And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,
4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."

 

[Almighty's humble servant]

There is NO Pre-Trib Rapture.
That is Satan's GREATEST deception yet.

While I wholly agree that the "rapture" theology is a deception, it is NOT satan's finest yet.

The deception that by increasing our technology we can lower our dependence on God, and by uniting, become god ourselves is by far his greatest deception.

 

[lilmissmontana]

I have a question… who are these people … where exactly are they… are they spoken of other than here…and how did they get here?

That’s more like four questions huh?

I have my own answers but I am willing to listen to some of your answers and reasoning…
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do us ALL a favor and do not turn this into a debate for at least 1 week, so that we can all see what each other has before we start trenching and shooting…
Thanks so very much

Here are the people

Rev.7: 9After this I saw a vast crowd, too great to count, from every nation and tribe and people and language, standing in front of the throne and before the Lamb. They were clothed in white and held palm branches in their hands. 10And they were shouting with a mighty shout, “Salvation comes from our God on the throne and from the Lamb!”
11And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living beings. And they fell face down before the throne and worshiped God. 12They said,
“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom
and thanksgiving and honor and power and strength
belong to our God forever and forever. Amen!”
13Then one of the twenty-four elders asked me, “Who are these who are clothed in white? Where do they come from?”
14And I said to him, “Sir, you are the one who knows.”
Then he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and made them white. 15That is why they are standing in front of the throne of God, serving him day and night in his Temple. And he who sits on the throne will live among them and shelter them. 16They will never again be hungry or thirsty, and they will be fully protected from the scorching noontime heat. 17For the Lamb who stands in front of the throne will be their Shepherd. He will lead them to the springs of life-giving water. And God will wipe away all their tears.”

Revelation 7:14
the numberless multitude

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he
said to me, These are theywhich came out of great
tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made
them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 6:9
the seals

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under
the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word
of God, andfor the testimony which they held:

Revelation 8:3
the seventh seal

And another angel came and stood at the altar, having
a golden censor; and there was given to him much in-
cense, that he sould offer it with the prayers of all saints
upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Revelation 20:4
Satan bound for a thousand years

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judge-
ment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them
that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the
word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast,
neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their
foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned
with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 1:9
a vision of the Son of God

I John, who also am your brother, and companion in trib-
ulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ,
was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God,
and for the testimony of Jesus Christ,


Isaiah 1:18
a call to repentance

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord:
though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white
as snow: though they be red like crimson, they shall be
as wool.

Psalm 51:7
a prayer for cleansing

Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean:
wash me, and I shall be whter than snow.

may the Lord bless you on the Way
lilmiss