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Gospel of Barnabas date is 16th century while prophet Mohamed is 6th century
Also, Prophet Mohamed was illiterate and never learnt any region or book
God's peace to be up on you and on all people who are looking for the truth.Hi there Limo,
God's peace be to you brother man. I'm glad that someone who can speak personally about their islamic beliefs is in the discussion.
I have read all the Koran through at least twice in its english translation. I have had muslim friends, spent time in muslim countries and am familiar with the basic teachings of Islam but of course, no I'm not knowledgeable in the way you are.
I have no problem accepting that Mohamed is a real historical man or that he probably 'wrote down' the Koran. My problem is that I believe The Bible is divinely inspired by God and as The Bible and The Koran do not speak with the same voice on many important points there is a problem. God is not a God of confusion.
Agreed.Limon you ask -
“Among people who calls themselves Christian, Do you have a common understanding/agreement about the nature of Jesus a god or son of god or one of three? how the divine part is mixed with human part???? many many disagreements
First we both know, don't we, that Islam is not as united or agreed as you want to present it. Yes within Christianity there are many disagreements but the statement of faith known as the Nicene Creed that Christian Forums has linked to the home page is agreed by the vast majority of Bible believing Christians. If you read it (maybe you already have?) the question of who Jesus is is dealt with. The heart of christian salvation is much more about agreeing with God than about agreeing with others (though that of course, when it happens, is good).
but there are casesYou say -
“The crucifixion story is told differently in the different gospels and very weak to the level that some "Christians" don't believe in it”
Yes each of the four gospels gives a different view of the crucifixion but it is the same event and in all four accounts The Lord dies a real death.
I don't see how someone who doesn't believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for their sins can be a Christian. I know that many Muslims believe that most people in certain countries are 'Christian'. According to the Bible no-one is born a Christian, a second birth is necessary
But still there is no acceptance by all churchesYou also ask these questions -
“Tell me, till date all who do call themselves Christians who are reading same books:
- Do you have one definition of Who is Christian?
- Do you have one defiition who is Christ?
- Do you have one definition who is god? how is he?”
for Who is a Christian? See -letter to the Romans chpt8:-
“You,(Christians) however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.”
for Who is Christ? see -letter to the Hebrews chpt1:-
“Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high”
for Who is God? How is He? see - book of the prophet Isaiah chpt40:-
“Behold, the nations are like a drop from a bucket, and are accounted as the dust on the scales; behold, he takes up the coastlands like fine dust. 16 Lebanon would not suffice for fuel, nor are its beasts enough for a burnt offering. 17 All the nations are as nothing before him, they are accounted by him as less than nothing and emptiness. 18 To whom then will you liken God, or what likeness compare with him? It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in; 23 who brings princes to nothing, and makes the rulers of the earth as emptiness.”
It's Jesus words but he's talking about somebody elseLimo the words you quote are those of The Lord Jesus speaking of Himself from the Gospel of John chpt16-
“IF answer of all above question is "No" then there is real need for the "Spirit of Truth" who shall "guide you into all the truth", "He will glorify and honor Me","take from what is Mine and will disclose it to you"
That is what Christians want, that Christ is honoured and glorified.
you're most welcomeExcuse me I've written a lot. I wanted to ask you some questions but now is late, so next time.
Go well
><>
It's from Allah.
Prophet Mohamed is guiding people into all the truth. He is not speaking on his own.
The Semitic root ʾlh (Arabic ʾilāh, Aramaic ʾAlāh, ʾElāh, Hebrew ʾelōah)Since when is Allah sources outside of the Quran?
We only know about Allah in the first place from within the Quran.
Are there any sources outside of Allah/ Quran revelation to support what Islam says differently about Jesus/ Isa?
For example, we know that Jesus was crucified, not only from the bible but also from the works of Tacitus, the Talmud writings, from Lucian and so on. There are an array of writings outside the biblical texts stating Jesus was crucified on a cross or stake.
Islam says Jesus/ Isa did not die. Why should this be accepted as correct? What historical evidence is there to support this and render the Christian view as incorrect?
The Semitic root ʾlh (Arabic ʾilāh, Aramaic ʾAlāh, ʾElāh, Hebrew ʾelōah)
If we add ("The"="Al" in Arabic) to make it indefinite Then in Arabic (Al+ʾilāh) i.e. Allah. Please note the Aramaic is the native Jesus language "ʾAlāh" absolutely equal to the Arabic word Allah. See Jesus was calling the God Allah.
So, Allah the creator the merciful who revealed Quran to prophet Mohamed.
Why prophet Mohamed has different opinion about Jesus/Isa and the crucifixion ?
He didn't speak on his own, he has spoken only what he hears from Allah
he has told also what has yet to come. He has glorified Jesus , He has taken what is for Jesus and declared it
I see that you apply Jesus words that we all understand to be about the Holy Spirit in the Gospel of John to Muhammad instead. I've heard the argument that paracletos, the Greek word for comforter should be pericletos, which means praised, which is also what Muhammad means. But if you are going to believe the Gospel of John, you should read it and you'll find that it talks the most about Jesus being divine. Also, does Muhammad glorify Jesus? If not, he's not the one the passage is talking about. And was Muhammad a spirit? Why would Jesus call him the spirit of truth?It's from Allah.
Prophet Mohamed is guiding people into all the truth. He is not speaking on his own.
Right, so it would appear that the evidence seems to show that "Allah" has got this wrong then?
And this is strange since the Quran was written 609-632 AD, which is around 600 years after the death of Jesus. So why, given that we know that Jesus DID die on a cross, did Allah not know this and provide Mohammed with an incorrect revelation?
This is a huge error and a problem for the plausibility of the Quran/ Islam in terms of it's accuracy.
Limo the words you quote are those of The Lord Jesus speaking of Himself from the Gospel of John chpt16-
“IF answer of all above question is "No" then there is real need for the "Spirit of Truth" who shall "guide you into all the truth", "He will glorify and honor Me","take from what is Mine and will disclose it to you"
That is what Christians want, that Christ is honoured and glorified.
"It's Jesus words but he's talking about somebody else"
Hello again Limo,
I don't understand "...he's talking about somebody else" ? Who is Jesus saying that The Holy Spirit will glorify?
John chpt16
12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
Limo I'm interested to know on what basis do you personally believe that all your sins are, and will be, forgiven? We both believe that God is compassionate and merciful. Do you believe also that He is pure, holy and just? The penalty for sin is eternal separation from God, that is, death. Nothing impure may enter into His presence. We can not make ourselves clean however much we wash or bow or do good things. So how do you believe that you will be allowed to enter The Holy and Just One's heaven?
God is The Pure One, The Just, The All-Merciful, The All-Beneficient,The Forgiving, The Truth,,,Ok late again
Go well
><>
I see that you apply Jesus words that we all understand to be about the Holy Spirit in the Gospel of John to Muhammad instead. I've heard the argument that paracletos, the Greek word for comforter should be pericletos, which means praised, which is also what Muhammad means. But if you are going to believe the Gospel of John, you should read it and you'll find that it talks the most about Jesus being divine. Also, does Muhammad glorify Jesus? If not, he's not the one the passage is talking about. And was Muhammad a spirit? Why would Jesus call him the spirit of truth?
Muhammad being illiterate is irrelevant. He naturally would have picked up lots of Christian legends by hearing them during his travels, and one can be a good poet without being able to write--Homer is a good example of that.
Yeeh, I feed up with this question.I have two questions for you:
How do you reconcile the verse that says, "there is no compulsion in religion", with Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." There are many more examples of verses both encouraging and prohibiting violence; it sure seems contradictory to me.
There are true books revealed to prophets. this we should believe in it.What does the Quran say about the Christian Scriptures (Taurat, Zibbur, and Injil)?
Robin !!!!! Realy stoning is evil , absurd and horrific???
Have you ever read Torah / OT your book?
Enjoy reading your holly book
Deut 22:20
20 “But if this charge is true that the evidence of virginity was not found in the young woman, 21 then they shall bring her out to the doorway of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed a deliberate sin in Israel by playing the prostitute in her father’s house. So you shall remove the evil from among you.
Torah is in layers,
you dig deeper by lifting layer by layer.
Seperating the spiritual from Torah and what do you have?
Oral Torah was meant to be passed down from teacher to student from generation to generation, not to the masses.
Oral Torah is the explanation of the written.
We are born with the evil inclination and just reading, as you put it,
often is what tickles the ears.
But for one who does not accept it can be so, studies.
When you have nothing to say about stoning in HB you change the subjectLimo,
a question,
Is Crying out "Allah is great" just before chopping anothers head off, trendy?"
You know, the Grand Canyon is great too, but it is not God either.
No problem if it's Torah or something else.
You can summarize What are these layers are saying about the evil , absurd and horrific stoning
This is from your holy book talking about stoning which you said it's evil , absurd and horrific
When you have nothing to say about stoning in HB you change the subject
Go and reply on my post about stoning in the HB
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