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I have a question and I’m confused

The Liturgist

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Got that right. Individuals here at CF have sometimes discarded Bible Dictionaries and Encyclopedias for websites such as Got Questions, Quora, et. al. The value of a Bible Dictionary or Encyclopaedia is that all contributors must adhere to a common standard of scholarship which can be peer reviewed. Also a name is usually affixed to the article for credential review.

AI is about as reliable as Quora - if you get the AI to provide its sources, and use specific terminology, and ask it questions which are not highly subjective, such as the one proposed by another member, it is equivalent in reliability to following up on the citations on a Wikipedia article - if you verify the accuracy of the information then you’re appealing to that source, which is a qualified authority, whereas otherwise all references to AI behavior are unqualified authority.
 
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BobRyan

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Which I did, and I posted the screenshot of its reply

did you do it in a fresh AI session or did you rely on lingering bias features in the AI system to groom it toward your desired target.

I don't mention any denomination in the fresh clean sessions that I use and no mention of Lutheran anything shows up
The fact that it was not what you expected proves my point - you can’t rely on LLMs to answer questions consistently.
It consistently gives the correct answer in my clean AI session windows and it correctly explains why it did not select options like Baptist Lutheran and Assemblies of God.

I did not mention any of them in my query to AI
 
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The Liturgist

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Sadly that is totally false. The reason we are getting autonomous AI implementations recently is that they work. They work without having to be first told what the right answer is. Which is why the simple test I show of AI rejecting what even you admit is a bad conclusion .

I’ve been unable to repeat the results you claim, which essentially moots your entire argument, despite having used a clean session and having used the question with your exact wording.

Which goes to my point - the results you get from AI searches are not repeatable between users. Factors such as prior AI usage will influence the output. If chatGPT knows you are an Adventist, it will tailor the output to your usage scenario.

For this reason, all queries of this sort are appeals to unqualified authority.

I would note also your claim contradicts the claims of the AI manufacturers, you seem to be claiming a level of reliability that they disclaim. Your argument would have us ignore the warning “ChatGPT can make mistakes.”
 
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The Liturgist

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did you do it in a fresh AI session or did you rely on lingering bias features in the AI system to groom it toward your desired target.

In a fresh session. Otherwise I wouldn’t have bothered posting a screenshot proving the result.
 
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The Liturgist

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It consistently gives the correct answer in my clean AI session windows and it correctly explains why it did not select options like Baptist Lutheran and Assemblies of God.

I did not mention any of them in my query to AI

What is the “correct answer” you are seeing? I’d assume its not the answer I’m seeing? Because you never disclosed what we should expect to be seeing; I would assume the SDA is on the list, but if you tell me the exact results you’re getting I can watch for it and conduct a larger survey.
 
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BobRyan

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The three largest churches, according to the chatGPT 5.1 Instant instance that i asked, grouped according to your specific question, were the LCMS, WELS and the ELS.
Sounds a little bit tainted given the context of the questioner where even AI goes into its own added reasoning as for why the Lutheran groups were not selected
I was surprised by this result, but I suspect it derives from the ambiguity of your query, since administration, denomination, and even Sola Scriptura have disputed meanings.
AI does not chase its tail on every word as if nothing is actually known.
 
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BobRyan

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. If chatGPT knows you are an Adventist, it will tailor the output to your usage scenario.
.
I don't tell AI about my affiliation

AI says "The answers I provided were determined by analyzing theological viewpoints against your precise criteria, not by attempting to guess or please you."
 
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The Liturgist

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I don't tell AI about my affiliation

AI says "The answers I provided were determined by analyzing theological viewpoints against your precise criteria, not by attempting to guess or please you."

And what were the answers it provided?
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Indeed, but that’s not what you’re seeing in the example I showed you. No corrupted message or other prompt hacking technique was used to get Grok to declare a non-existent Pope canonized Gregory XVII. AIs suffer from a problem called hallucination, and that’s why all major AIs include a warning that they can make mistakes - a warning message you seem to be ignoring in attempting to use AI as an infallible source.

Hallucination is a real issue, and as someone who has entered the world of AI consulting in a professional capacity as an annex to my existing systems engineering business, and who has written over 50 AI-based applications, not only this, but also the fact that minor differences in wording which would seem inconsequential to the human user, can substantially alter the output of the question.

Also, your argument presupposes another technical inaccuracy, that AI behavior is deterministic (on all useful LLMs, its not, rather, a variable called temperature is used, and if this is set to a non-zero value, which it normally is (AIs with a temperature of zero it turns out aren’t particularly useful or interesting) the result being the same input prompt will by default produce different output.

So even if you were to run ask the same question on multiple AIs a multiple number of times, you still would not have a useful proof of whatever point you were trying to make - AI is, by itself, not reliable.

Now, the correct course of action, and there is a correct course of action, is to ask the AI what sources it used to make the statement you’re trying to use in an argument, examine those sources to make sure they say what the AI thinks they said, and if so, include them directly. In this manner one can avoid the embarrassment of the attorneys who recently in a federal case made the mistake of trusting one of the most reliable AIs not to generate spurious precedents - and it let them down, and the Federal judge was most displeased.

All uses of AI by itself as a direct source are appeals to an unqualified authority, in the same way that college professors have rightly regarded most or all of Wikipedia as an unreliable authority - an AI prove nothing other than the contents of their output. However, like Wikipedia, they can be used to find sources which are reliable and can be quoted. Although even in this case I would warn you are in for some frustration; if the information comes from their pretraining data, they are often unable to name the exact source (in this case the solution is to ask them to find external validation for their claim).

Now that I’ve explained the theoretical reasons why your argument is unreliable, take a look at what I got when I asked a freshly initialized ChatGPT 5.1 the very question you proposed:

View attachment 374119

I would assume that answer does not correspond with what you were expecting based on the content of your posts? Of course, AI can make mistakes, although our Lutheran friends @MarkRohfrietsch @ViaCrucis @Ain't Zwinglian and others might well agree with chatGPT’s answer based on how denomination is defined (which I warned you in a previous post is an ambiguous term) and how sola scriptura is defined (presumably chatGPT 5.1 based its decision on Martin Luther’s historical definition of Sola Scriptura, which would incline towards a selection limited to Lutheran and Calvinist churches - but only Calvinist churches with a unified administration would qualify, whatever defines an administration - another ambiguous term. At any rate, within certain definitions of the ambigous parameters, I don’t see that chatGPT is in error.
You asked for three, you got them. I'm not a fan of AI either, I saw one based on the statement "Jesus flipped over the tables at the Temple" it provided a picture of our Lord summersaulting over tables. But, yes, these would be the top three.
 
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BobRyan

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What is the “correct answer” you are seeing?

ok I am refining my question as per your suggestion.

Q. Identify the largest Trinitarian Christian denominations that (1) explicitly state that Scripture is sufficient to test all doctrine, (2) possess a single global administrative authority, (3) maintain one unified set of binding official doctrines for all members, and (4) contain no autonomous subgroups within their membership

Let me know if you get different answers each time you ask AI that question.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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I'm out of this thread now; there are enough lies and deceptions in this world without using an algorithms to create more. AI is already well on the way to turning mankind into a bunch of dozy simpletons. Let something or someonne else do the work, and pretty soon you have learned nothing.
 
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The Liturgist

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I think we all know the answer that my Google AI and also ChatGpt gave

I don’t know, since I have not been able to obtain such an answer.
 
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The Liturgist

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BobRyan

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I don’t know, since I have not been able to obtain such an answer.
wait. Are you saying that AI gives you no answer at all to the AI-friendly form of my question?

Using strict rules, identify the largest Trinitarian Christian denominations that claim (1) scripture is a sufficient test of doctrine and no extra-biblical document is necessary for testing all doctrine, (2) possess a single global administrative authority, (3) maintain one unified set of binding official doctrines for all members, and (4) contain no doctrinally autonomous subgroups within their membership.
 
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The Liturgist

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AI is already well on the way to turning mankind into a bunch of dozy simpletons. Let something or someonne else do the work, and pretty soon you have learned nothing.

indeed, this is the real tragedy behind how AI is being deployed. It should not have been used in such a manner.
 
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BobRyan

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I'm out of this thread now; there are enough lies and deceptions in this world without using an algorithms to create more. AI is already well on the way to turning mankind into a bunch of dozy simpletons. Let something or someonne else do the work, and pretty soon you have learned nothing.
hint all adherents to any given denomination have at least some bias toward their own group. This is irrefutable.

AI steps outside that sandbox. It can be very good objective measure if used carefully without trying force it to give a biased result

This wont sit well in "my bias only world" , but for the rest of us...
 
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FaithT

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My suggestion would be to pray about it and look for a church that matches what the Bible says. I recommend studying the Bible for yourself and claim the promise of scripture that the Holy Spirit will teach us all everything God says John 14:26 (His Word). Have an open heart and be willing to go with what matches the Word of God. Maybe try a couple churches, but continue to pray earnestly. God bless!
I’d like to add that many churches still livestream so the OP can sample different services at his/her leisure.