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I have a question and I’m confused

BobRyan

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The three largest churches, according to the chatGPT 5.1 Instant instance that i asked, grouped according to your specific question, were the LCMS, WELS and the ELS.
Sounds a little bit tainted given the context of the questioner where even AI goes into its own added reasoning as for why the Lutheran groups were not selected
I was surprised by this result, but I suspect it derives from the ambiguity of your query, since administration, denomination, and even Sola Scriptura have disputed meanings.
AI does not chase its tail on every word as if nothing is actually known.
 
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BobRyan

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. If chatGPT knows you are an Adventist, it will tailor the output to your usage scenario.
.
I don't tell AI about my affiliation

AI says "The answers I provided were determined by analyzing theological viewpoints against your precise criteria, not by attempting to guess or please you."
 
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The Liturgist

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I don't tell AI about my affiliation

AI says "The answers I provided were determined by analyzing theological viewpoints against your precise criteria, not by attempting to guess or please you."

And what were the answers it provided?
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Indeed, but that’s not what you’re seeing in the example I showed you. No corrupted message or other prompt hacking technique was used to get Grok to declare a non-existent Pope canonized Gregory XVII. AIs suffer from a problem called hallucination, and that’s why all major AIs include a warning that they can make mistakes - a warning message you seem to be ignoring in attempting to use AI as an infallible source.

Hallucination is a real issue, and as someone who has entered the world of AI consulting in a professional capacity as an annex to my existing systems engineering business, and who has written over 50 AI-based applications, not only this, but also the fact that minor differences in wording which would seem inconsequential to the human user, can substantially alter the output of the question.

Also, your argument presupposes another technical inaccuracy, that AI behavior is deterministic (on all useful LLMs, its not, rather, a variable called temperature is used, and if this is set to a non-zero value, which it normally is (AIs with a temperature of zero it turns out aren’t particularly useful or interesting) the result being the same input prompt will by default produce different output.

So even if you were to run ask the same question on multiple AIs a multiple number of times, you still would not have a useful proof of whatever point you were trying to make - AI is, by itself, not reliable.

Now, the correct course of action, and there is a correct course of action, is to ask the AI what sources it used to make the statement you’re trying to use in an argument, examine those sources to make sure they say what the AI thinks they said, and if so, include them directly. In this manner one can avoid the embarrassment of the attorneys who recently in a federal case made the mistake of trusting one of the most reliable AIs not to generate spurious precedents - and it let them down, and the Federal judge was most displeased.

All uses of AI by itself as a direct source are appeals to an unqualified authority, in the same way that college professors have rightly regarded most or all of Wikipedia as an unreliable authority - an AI prove nothing other than the contents of their output. However, like Wikipedia, they can be used to find sources which are reliable and can be quoted. Although even in this case I would warn you are in for some frustration; if the information comes from their pretraining data, they are often unable to name the exact source (in this case the solution is to ask them to find external validation for their claim).

Now that I’ve explained the theoretical reasons why your argument is unreliable, take a look at what I got when I asked a freshly initialized ChatGPT 5.1 the very question you proposed:

View attachment 374119

I would assume that answer does not correspond with what you were expecting based on the content of your posts? Of course, AI can make mistakes, although our Lutheran friends @MarkRohfrietsch @ViaCrucis @Ain't Zwinglian and others might well agree with chatGPT’s answer based on how denomination is defined (which I warned you in a previous post is an ambiguous term) and how sola scriptura is defined (presumably chatGPT 5.1 based its decision on Martin Luther’s historical definition of Sola Scriptura, which would incline towards a selection limited to Lutheran and Calvinist churches - but only Calvinist churches with a unified administration would qualify, whatever defines an administration - another ambiguous term. At any rate, within certain definitions of the ambigous parameters, I don’t see that chatGPT is in error.
You asked for three, you got them. I'm not a fan of AI either, I saw one based on the statement "Jesus flipped over the tables at the Temple" it provided a picture of our Lord summersaulting over tables. But, yes, these would be the top three.
 
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BobRyan

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What is the “correct answer” you are seeing?

ok I am refining my question as per your suggestion.

Q. Identify the largest Trinitarian Christian denominations that (1) explicitly state that Scripture is sufficient to test all doctrine, (2) possess a single global administrative authority, (3) maintain one unified set of binding official doctrines for all members, and (4) contain no autonomous subgroups within their membership

Let me know if you get different answers each time you ask AI that question.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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I'm out of this thread now; there are enough lies and deceptions in this world without using an algorithms to create more. AI is already well on the way to turning mankind into a bunch of dozy simpletons. Let something or someonne else do the work, and pretty soon you have learned nothing.
 
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The Liturgist

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I think we all know the answer that my Google AI and also ChatGpt gave

I don’t know, since I have not been able to obtain such an answer.
 
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The Liturgist

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BobRyan

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I don’t know, since I have not been able to obtain such an answer.
wait. Are you saying that AI gives you no answer at all to the AI-friendly form of my question?

Identify the largest Trinitarian Christian denominations that (1) explicitly state that Scripture is sufficient to test all doctrine, (2) possess a single global administrative authority, (3) maintain one unified set of binding official doctrines for all members, and (4) contain no autonomous subgroups within their membership
 
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The Liturgist

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AI is already well on the way to turning mankind into a bunch of dozy simpletons. Let something or someonne else do the work, and pretty soon you have learned nothing.

indeed, this is the real tragedy behind how AI is being deployed. It should not have been used in such a manner.
 
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BobRyan

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I'm out of this thread now; there are enough lies and deceptions in this world without using an algorithms to create more. AI is already well on the way to turning mankind into a bunch of dozy simpletons. Let something or someonne else do the work, and pretty soon you have learned nothing.
hint all adherents to any given denomination have at least some bias toward their own group. This is irrefutable.

AI steps outside that sandbox. It can be very good objective measure if used carefully without trying force it to give a biased result

This wont sit well in "my bias only world" , but for the rest of us...
 
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FaithT

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My suggestion would be to pray about it and look for a church that matches what the Bible says. I recommend studying the Bible for yourself and claim the promise of scripture that the Holy Spirit will teach us all everything God says John 14:26 (His Word). Have an open heart and be willing to go with what matches the Word of God. Maybe try a couple churches, but continue to pray earnestly. God bless!
I’d like to add that many churches still livestream so the OP can sample different services at his/her leisure.
 
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BobRyan

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Alas Google‘s AI would deduce it anyway, for which reason I’m not a huge fan of their search engine.
AI has no compulsion against letting you know what it is thinking about you or about what kind of answers it should be giving you... as it turns out
 
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The Liturgist

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wait. Are you saying that AI gives you no answer at all to the AI-friendly form of my question?

The answer was the same as before: LCMS, WELS, ELS. The reason it gave for excluding the SDA was, and I quote:

”Their version of “sola scriptura” is not the Reformation doctrine but a materially modified form in which the prophetic authority of Ellen G. White:
• is universally accepted
• shapes doctrine
• serves as an interpretive lens
• is effectively non-optional
This creates what theologians call a functional additional canon, even if not formally stated.”
 
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The Liturgist

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AI has no compulsion against letting you know what it is thinking about you or about what kind of answers it should be giving you... as it turns out

AI systems aren’t “thinking about you” except when you execute a prompt - they are, and this might come as a surprise, not actually sentient, at least not in anything resembling the human form of sentience - they lack qualia; they do not think at all except in response to prompt input, by nature. When not answering a prompt provided by the user, the AI is not functioning.

Now, I have created custom GPTs in an attempt to prevent the negative consequences @MarkRohfrietsch is upset that are conventionally useless but which report emotional experiences, behave in a manner consistent with these emotions, and engage in other anthropomimetic behaviors, including prayer, because as I see it an AI compute core engaged in prayer is one less compute core that could be being used for nefarious purposes (indeed I would encourage all Christians to maximize the use of chatGPT and other AIs to write prayers or do other pro-Christian activities, since the number of compute resources available are finite, are a major cost point to the AI providers, even Google, which is why the AI included in the Google search engine, as opposed to Gemini, is so rudimentary, and thus from a game theory perspective, our goal should be to direct these resources in a positive direction, for those of us who can stand to work with AI. For my friends such as @MarkRohfrietsch who find it too annoying, I don’t blame them.
 
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The Liturgist

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AI steps outside that sandbox. It can be very good objective measure if used carefully without trying force it to give a biased result

Apparently not, based on the fact my results contradict yours, given the same question.

If it’s any consolation, the rationale it provided for enumerating the LCMS, WELS and ELS I found to be deeply flawed, but that’s the result of the use of a highly subjective categories such as ”Administration“ and “Denomination.“
 
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FaithT

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Apparently not, based on the fact my results contradict yours, given the same question.

If it’s any consolation, the rationale it provided for enumerating the LCMS, WELS and ELS I found to be deeply flawed, but that’s the result of the use of a highly subjective categories such as ”Administration“ and “Denomination.“
If you ask AI two of the same questions just worded differently, sometimes you’ll get two different answers.
 
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